Is the payload under rated

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[ShadowsPapa]

As opposed to what? Over-rated? Think about your question for a second. Your second sentence also agrees with my statement that it includes all components.

Yes, it's all things combined that make up the whole, how it performs and handles under all situations.
As far a "under rated a little".............. how do you know if it's a little or a lot, and define "a little"
All things - boats, ropes, pulleys, hoists, tires, you name it, have to have a factor built in - they can't say a strap is good for 35,000 pounds if that's it's breaking point as humans being humans, and truck/jeep people among the worst - will test that number. Everything for many decades has a bit of a fudge factor - that also accounts for those "what if" things - what if that one part that we say is good for xx stress for some reason doesn't make it that far.

Yes under rated, but not by much

This is the part I referred to - not by much? How is this known, and define "not by much".
No one knows if it's a little or a lot until they try it and hit one of those emergency situations...... by then, it's too late.

Just follow the rules - it's for not just your safety, but for everyone on the road. Look at the people, innocent people, who have been killed by wheels coming off ANOTHER vehicle, loads breaking loose, and so on. It's not the idiot who generally suffers, it's those around them.

 

[DiscoSlug]

Yes, it's all things combined that make up the whole, how it performs and handles under all situations.



This is the part I referred to - not by much? How is this known, and define "not by much".
No one knows if it's a little or a lot until they try it and hit one of those emergency situations...... by then, it's too late.

I'm fairly sure we are in full agreement. When my tire blew I was likely 1000lbs over my rear axle rating. I estimated this by the volume of dirt and google's guesstimate on dry vs wet compost weights. I get my unloaded + driver weight when I go to the recycling or dump. Based on that weight and weight of compost I was maybe a couple hundred lbs over GVWR tops. So not much and I only had a stock max tow tire blow. Nothing else was out of the ordinary.

Some parts in the whole setup will be very under rated, some will be maybe just a little. I think I found the weak point in my system (a standard pressure stock tire). Which at the end of the day is a great weak point to have a low speeds and a terrible one at highway speeds.

At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for our own setup and safety. If OP wants to go over payload and hurts someone else, police and insurance aren't going to let them off the hook because the internet told them it was ok. My point here is there is no use arguing with people back and forth over towing and payload figures past the rated amount. I'm showing my error (dry compost that got wet) so that others can learn from my mistakes. I was within payload, and then sitting overnight in the rain I became overloaded.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I'm fairly sure we are in full agreement.

Yup - when it's all summarized, yes.

Humans being humans, and Jeep people and truck people among the worst, even hint that anything is fine, and they'll try it out - hey, I can do more, no problem - until it is a problem and someone dies (and it's never the one with the truck.)

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Social Media DOT gonna get you.

Social Media DOT never sleeps.

If you have an accident Social Media DOT will send a crack team of forensic auditors to collect every shard of waste, weigh it, and lay your soul to waste if you're a single gram over.

Happens to my uncles barbers friends brothers neighbor everyday.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Social Media DOT gonna get you.

Social Media DOT never sleeps.

If you have an accident Social Media DOT will send a crack team of forensic auditors to collect every shard of waste, weigh it, and lay your soul to waste if you're a single gram over.

Happens to my uncles barbers friends brothers neighbor everyday.

Laugh all you want - it's funny until it isn't.. You have connections in FCA - I have mine in the state patrol. I've also been involved, mostly observational but still involved due to a harmed party, in just what they can do, and will do.
It's not the DOT you need to watch out for - go much over a limit and get into an accident where lawyers are involved - the ISP provides all of their information to the hurt party and their attorney uses it in civil court where the burdens of proof are much lower. All they have to do is show you were likely over. And the patrol can do just that for them without weighing the vehicle.

When we got into this a couple of years ago here, I called the Iowa State Patrol and talked to one of their training officers - and he laid it all out - yes, they watch for federal law breaking, failure to control and all sorts of other things, but they can easily calculate a weight, all of that goes to the injured party.
I asked him - yeah, but does that really happen?
Yes, more often than people think.

you are still responsible but from my observations - very few really are "responsible" drivers of light truck.

Go ahead and do whatever you want, laugh, mock, whatever, but when that accident comes up and it ends up in civil court, you'll be on the losing end, I'll be sitting saying "I told you so" - because I have it from attorneys and troopers. I went through quite a year of this sort of stuff when that kid killed Dad - wow, the things they can figure out, amazing.

 

[MPMB]

The ratings exist to protect Jeep.

Think of all of the stated capabilities as a vehicular HR department. It exists to protect Jeep, not the owner. The stated values are what Jeep has engineered the vehicle to safely handle in most situations. It would behoove owners to follow those numbers to protect themselves as well, since we live in a litigious society that would rather sue people to get rich rather than work for it.

Can the Gladiator tow/haul more? Yes. Many have done so and brag about it like morons.

The issue that some of us are keenly aware of is in the event an owner exceeds the Gladiator's capacity and is involved in a collision, they can be found liable for damages or at fault. Not all states have the same traffic laws nor insurance laws. Some states don't have an explicit "at fault" law and instead have "drivers must make all reasonable attempts to avoid traffic collisions" or something to that language. Some states have "no-fault" up to a specified dollar amount (which is kind of dumb, since how is the general public supposed to know how much the repair is going to cost?).

Exceeding capacities could leave you holding the bag, even if *you* don't think you're at fault. Because anyone could easily explain that had the Gladiator been within specified limits, it could have easily avoided the collision. That's just common sense. You add a death (other than yours/Gladiator driver) to any collision that involves an overloaded vehicle, and you are screwed in any wrongful death lawsuit.

This past March my niece and SIL were in a multi-car accident caused by a 21yo drunk driver passing in a canyon road. SIL was in a rental Toyota that had an airbag malfunction. Surprisingly to her and her insurance people, the rental company - within days of the accident - claimed the wrecked Toyota from the yard and had it taken away to some netherworld, never to be seen from again.

For the past 9 months my SIL has been fighting with the rental company over the accident because there's no vehicle "evidence," only her injuries and pictures she has. The rental company has been less than congenial over the duration. Company starts with "A" and rhymes with "Beavis," if you'd like to avoid a questionable agency.

I've been in two true accidents (my self-inflicted shenanigan as a teen doesn't count) in my life. First was my fault, and I got a ticket for. The second was not my fault, was clearly the fault of the non-insured person in front of me driving the non-insured car; the person behind me hit me, pushed me into the person in front of me, and no tickets were issued.
So I wrote all that to say illustrate this:

There's no way we can accurate predict all the events that could happen while driving and the ramifications and interactions between insurance, laws, medical bills, and criminal behavior.

You can only control what you can control.

The numbers exist to protect the manufacturer from liability. It's there so Jeep can say "We said payload is 1050#. It's not our fault he's an idiot and put 1700# worth of hardwood flooring in the bed and ended up plowing over your seeing-eye dog."

 

[MPMB]

Go ahead and do whatever you want, laugh, mock, whatever, but when that accident comes up and it ends up in civil court, you'll be on the losing end, I'll be sitting saying "I told you so" - because I have it from attorneys and troopers. I went through quite a year of this sort of stuff when that kid killed Dad - wow, the things they can figure out, amazing.

I imagine when you're dumping money into a case, it's not that much more to add an expert to testify, or submit a report as evidence, that helps a case in that regard.

And I bet with AI today, most people could figure out a lot of the crash information themselves. Whether or not it's permissible is another thing.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I imagine when you're dumping money into a case, it's not that much more to add an expert to testify, or submit a report as evidence, that helps a case in that regard.

And I bet with AI today, most people could figure out a lot of the crash information themselves. Whether or not it's permissible is another thing.

The Iowa State Patrol does deep dives into any accidents involving injury or death. It's totally amazing - even as a tech person, watching them, going through the info they had, impressive and amazing. They calculated the weight of the car involved, the speed and more - and in the end, the "black box" info in the car matched their calculations perfectly for speed and direction, braking or lack of, acceleration or lack of, exactly when the driver tried to turn it hard - to the foot on the highway.

 

[Zachanadandy]

Laugh all you want - it's funny until it isn't.. You have connections in FCA - I have mine in the state patrol. I've also been involved, mostly observational but still involved due to a harmed party, in just what they can do, and will do.
It's not the DOT you need to watch out for - go much over a limit and get into an accident where lawyers are involved - the ISP provides all of their information to the hurt party and their attorney uses it in civil court where the burdens of proof are much lower. All they have to do is show you were likely over. And the patrol can do just that for them without weighing the vehicle.

When we got into this a couple of years ago here, I called the Iowa State Patrol and talked to one of their training officers - and he laid it all out - yes, they watch for federal law breaking, failure to control and all sorts of other things, but they can easily calculate a weight, all of that goes to the injured party.
I asked him - yeah, but does that really happen?
Yes, more often than people think.

you are still responsible but from my observations - very few really are "responsible" drivers of light truck.

Go ahead and do whatever you want, laugh, mock, whatever, but when that accident comes up and it ends up in civil court, you'll be on the losing end, I'll be sitting saying "I told you so" - because I have it from attorneys and troopers. I went through quite a year of this sort of stuff when that kid killed Dad - wow, the things they can figure out, amazing.

Weight doesn't change liability period. If the difference in someone pulling out in front of you (failure to yield) and you hitting them is really the 10 extra feet of stopping distance by being a few hundred pounds over it will be a minor crash at most. Conversely if they pull out so close that you'd hit them in a Ferrari it doesn't matter if you were a few hundred pounds over. Blow a stop sign empty you're just as liable as you'd be if you were towing a space shuttle. Get run into by some bad driver, again it doesn't matter if your empty or loaded down. Obviously if it's gross negligence there could be additional charges/liabilities, but nobody is expected to weigh their vehicle every time they load it up to make sure they aren't a couple pounds over. As a larger male, with a large son, taking him and a few buddies puts most cars and suvs well over their gross weight rating. Hell my ram 1500 was over on roadtrips from basic luggage and 4x270+ pound men in it.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

I mean, if we really want to nitpick, adding wheels, tires, suspension, gawdy cell phone holders that block vision, 100 ducks on the dash... anything that didn't come on the truck as a factory item can be used against you in an accident.

In the end, stay within the left and right limits. If you have to go outside those limits you do so at your own risk.

And for fucks sake stop fear mongering everything.

 

[MPMB]

The Iowa State Patrol does deep dives into any accidents involving injury or death. It's totally amazing - even as a tech person, watching them, going through the info they had, impressive and amazing. They calculated the weight of the car involved, the speed and more - and in the end, the "black box" info in the car matched their calculations perfectly for speed and direction, braking or lack of, acceleration or lack of, exactly when the driver tried to turn it hard - to the foot on the highway.

I believe it.

I had a friend who was helping a man out of his truck who was in an accident. Short story is someone rear ends cars hard enough she ended up getting hit by the truck's door hard enough to get knocked out of her shoes and suffered a bad TBI.

We could see the spray paint outline of her shoes when we'd drive the highway.

I don't remember the details, but I do know they were able to determine how fast the kid was going when he hit the first car that started the chain reaction and how fast the truck ended up moving.

Physics. How does it work?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

How is relaying information from LEOs and attorneys fear mongering.
And why does it always end up someone minimizes the conversation by stating "my luggage and adults put me over weight" No one gives a shit about that. We're talking about a 900 pound rating and hauling 1500-1800 pounds with it.
No one tussles over 2 or 3 hundred pounds. But every time it comes up - someone always the same then drops it down to "100-200 over". That's never a question and yes, many cars will end up over their payload rating with a family of large people and the trunk packed with stuff.
It's about "well over rating", not "a little bit over" but someone keeps justifying it with low ball examples.

Stating what a state trooper says isn't fear mongering.

amazing how easy it is to tell those who care about safety on the road vs those who "I'll do what I want and no one is going to stop me"

 

[NC_Overland]

It’s always wild to see them bumper pulling their caravans (campers) with their 4 cylinder diesel estates (wagons) in Europe.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Laugh all you want

That is my general MO in life.

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