P00AF less than 5 miles into first tow

[Idlethunder]

Looking at your EGT temp of 1308 and oil temp of 252 you need to drop a gear and possibly slow down. I usually run under 1000 degrees on the EGT's by dropping to 7th or 6th gear and running between 65-70 mph. With the water/meth injection my EGT is stay pretty consistent around 860 to 960 on incline/hills.

Thank you for the information. That is definitely a number I pay attention to. That picture was taken right after accelerating up a hill trying to recreate the problem. I was going 60 mph at the bottom and a little over 70 at the top. That was the one hill in yesterday’s test that I expected to cause a problem but it didn’t. I drove hard trying to force an issue, not like I normally drive when towing.

For the next run I’m going to travel around 140 miles while driving much more conservatively. There’s a turnpike 40 miles away that will be a great test. I can get on and run 30 miles or so with several big hills. If it handles that without an issue I feel like it will be safe to take the travel trailer to New Mexico.

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[FC1]

I would like to know about your water, methanol injection unit. What name unit? What all it took to install? Does it help on your fuel mileage?
Thanks

 

[biodiesel]

For the next run I’m going to travel around 140 miles while driving much more conservatively. There’s a turnpike 40 miles away that will be a great test. I can get on and run 30 miles or so with several big hills. If it handles that without an issue I feel like it will be safe to take the travel trailer to New Mexico.

Where are you planning to go in New Mexico? Some of the Ram guys didn't know they had the faulty actuator until they towed through the Mountain West. The long steep grades are more likely to trigger the P00AF than smaller hills.

I've towed over some of the longest/steepest mountain passes in New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado without any issues. My hottest oil temps have been 257*F.

We have found that the sensitivity for the P00AF code is different for everyone. One of the Jeep Gladiator guys was able to get the P00AF code running empty going through the Smoky Mountains (not towing). We had a Ram guy who had towed his camper from the east coast to Colorado before experiencing the P00AF code, and that was on I-40 near the Ike Gauntlet.

What I can tell you is that 100% of the folks who went to the dealer with the P00AF code got their turbo replaced for free under the 5 year/100,000 mile Powertrain Warranty.

 

[Idlethunder]

Where are you planning to go in New Mexico? Some of the Ram guys didn't know they had the faulty actuator until they towed through the Mountain West. The long steep grades are more likely to trigger the P00AF than smaller hills.

I've towed over some of the longest/steepest mountain passes in New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, and Colorado without any issues. My hottest oil temps have been 257*F.

We have found that the sensitivity for the P00AF code is different for everyone. One of the Jeep Gladiator guys was able to get the P00AF code running empty going through the Smoky Mountains (not towing). We had a Ram guy who had towed his camper from the east coast to Colorado before experiencing the P00AF code, and that was on I-40 near the Ike Gauntlet.

What I can tell you is that 100% of the folks who went to the dealer with the P00AF code got their turbo replaced for free under the 5 year/100,000 mile Powertrain Warranty.

I'm going to Moriarty. It has been several years since we've been there but it was always an easy drive.

If it comes down to replacing the turbo or living with the problem, I'll replace it but I'm trying anything I can think of to avoid that. I should have towed something right after I bought the diesel but it wasn't something I thought about. Now that I'm deleted, I would have to reinstall the stock exhaust and put the original ECU back in to have a dealer consider it for warranty. I will do that if I must but if changing to a lower HP tune keeps it from happening, that is a much easier option.

I'm not smart enough to know exactly what tuning does to produce more HP but it would have to change the fuel air mixture and that would have an effect on the turbo. At least that's my thinking and why I tried dropping back to the stock tune.

 

[Cadguy]

Did you delete the high pressure EGR also? That’s where a temendous amount of heat is put INTO the coolant! Think about that 1000+ egt temp flowing right through the cooler and into your intake, albeit much cooler into the intake, as the coolant has soaked up much of that heat. That pipe comes right off the back of the turbo. This lets oil temps get away also, as the oil is ”cooled” by the coolant.

 

[Idlethunder]

Did you delete the high pressure EGR also? That’s where a temendous amount of heat is put INTO the coolant! Think about that 1000+ egt temp flowing right through the cooler and into your intake, albeit much cooler into the intake, as the coolant has soaked up much of that heat. That pipe comes right off the back of the turbo. This lets oil temps get away also, as the oil is ”cooled” by the coolant.

It is still there but blocked off with a plate. The overall temps are lower now than before by 10 to 15 degrees. A few days ago when it was 99 degrees outside the highest temps I saw on a 50 highway drive had the oil at 219 and coolant at 207.

 

[rubicon4wheeler]

Now that I'm deleted, I would have to reinstall the stock exhaust and put the original ECU back in to have a dealer consider it for warranty. I will do that if I must but if changing to a lower HP tune keeps it from happening, that is a much easier option.

With my Banks Derringer, it doesn't seem to have mattered what level of tune I am running. I get the P00AF on long grades when the engine is thoroughly heat-soaked whether I'm on stock tune or Level 6. In fact, I'd completely removed the Derringer when I demonstrated the P00AF code to my dealership.

Although oil temp correlates with heat-soaking the turbo actuator, it is not what causes the P00AF limp mode. I have seen oil temps as high as 268 and not gotten the code, but I have gotten the code with as little as 238 degrees oil temp while driving at only 35mph in the truck lane with the tractor-trailers as I was purposely trying to keep revs up and load down to manage the heat and avoid the P00AF as I was climbing a particularly long grade. And yes, the Derringer was set to stock tune, so that was not a part of the equation.

After installing the CSF radiator and manually turning on the engine fan to keep oil temp low, I have still gotten the P00AF limp mode when only lightly loaded (motorcycle on a carrier, no trailer) while climbing a couple-mile-long grade in the summer heat while maintaining 70mph.

If I'm not putting a constant load on the engine and thoroughly heat-soaking the actuator, I have zero problems. I always have proper throttle response, consistent power, and it runs like a scalded dog especially when the Derringer is tuned up. The turbo and its variable geometry has never given me any indication that it is not working perfectly. The problems happen with heat soak. I can climb a grade no problem if the engine is starting off relatively cool. But if I've driven for an hour or two at highway speeds with a decent load on the engine and then try to climb that same grade, that is when I'll get the P00AF.

This consistent behavior has convinced me that it's the actuator that is the problem. I just haven't been able to bring myself to have the dealership pull the cab and replace the turbo; I've been trying every other fix I can think of to try to avoid having to do that. Now that I've finally gotten my hands on an actuator, I'm about to replace that myself to see if that solves the problem. If not, I'll just bite the bullet and remove all my electrical and rock sliders so the Jeep dealership can replace the whole damn turbo, and then hope that the new turbo and actuator actually solve the problem.

Stellantis would save their customers and their dealerships a whole lot of time, money, and frustration if they would just offer that damn actuator as a standalone replacement part.

 

[Chance575]

I would like to know about your water, methanol injection unit. What name unit? What all it took to install? Does it help on your fuel mileage?
Thanks

Snow performance stage 2 kit, you need afe charge pipes for the install, some sort of custom mount for a tank, I run a 2.5 gallon in the bed currently and looking for a larger one. I use about 2 gallons of washer fluid (which is 33-35% methanol) per tank full Using a 1 gallon per hour nozzle. no increase in mileage

 

[Idlethunder]

Stellantis would save their customers and their dealerships a whole lot of time, money, and frustration if they would just offer that damn actuator as a standalone replacement part.

It looks like this is the case with mine also. I drove 130 miles towing the trailer today and had no trouble until about 25 miles from home. While passing two trucks in the slow lane going up a fairly steep hill, the code came up again. At the time my oil temp was only 238 and I saw as high as 254 earlier. A couple miles after going in limp mode I was able to pull over and clear it and the rest of the drive was fine.

Where did you find an actuator, or did you buy a complete turbo? I've got an email in to an eBay seller in Poland who sold rebuilt actuators in the past, but so far no reply. Like you, I'm willing to try but finding one hasn't been easy.

 

[biodiesel]

I'm going to Moriarty.

I asked the same question in a different thread. I didn't realize you were the same person.

I thought maybe you were heading to one of the mountainous areas such as Ruidoso, Red River, Angel Fire, Taos, etc. The drive to Moriarty will be easy. You've got a big hill coming out of Santa Rosa, otherwise, it shouldn't be too bad. I still think you'll trigger the P00AF code, though. There's 2,400' feet total elevation gain between Santa Rosa and Clines Corner. Vehicles typically run hot going across New Mexico on I-40. Keep us posted!

 

[rubicon4wheeler]

I've got an email in to an eBay seller in Poland who sold rebuilt actuators in the past, but so far no reply.

I've been waiting for nearly a year for an actuator from him. He just hasn't gotten any in for repair. He knows to contact me when he gets some in.

 

[Idlethunder]

I asked the same question in a different thread. I didn't realize you were the same person.

I thought maybe you were heading to one of the mountainous areas such as Ruidoso, Red River, Angel Fire, Taos, etc. The drive to Moriarty will be easy. You've got a big hill coming out of Santa Rosa, otherwise, it shouldn't be too bad. I still think you'll trigger the P00AF code, though. There's 2,400' feet total elevation gain between Santa Rosa and Clines Corner. Vehicles typically run hot going across New Mexico on I-40. Keep us posted!

Yes I remember talking in the thread about shocks. You asked that I let you know how my Fox performance elite shocks did while towing. I obviously haven’t put too many miles on them so far with the trailer but I’m impressed with them. I wish I’d bought them from CrazyCooter rather than Accutune but they did a fairly good job tuning them to my rig. For everyday driving I had them dialed in after the first week and the diesel rides better than I thought possible. I’ve only pulled the trailer 3 times now for less than 200 miles. The first couple tows I added one click to both front and rear high speed compression adjusters but the front felt a little stiff and the rear was still a little soft. Today while driving 130 miles I added one more click to the rear shocks and backed off one on the front. Today’s drive towing was as good as an every day drive empty.

I’ve got the high speed compression at 5 front and 4 rear for everyday driving. 5 front and 6 rear for towing the small travel trailer. That leaves adjustment both directions should I need it. My only complaint with Accutune is their low speed compression tune. I have the front at 9 and rear at 8 out of 10 so almost fully firm. I’d prefer to be more mid range to allow for adjustment if needed. Most of my driving here is either state highway or washboard dirt and gravel. I may back off a couple of clicks on low speed adjustment while on I-40 just to see how it feels.

 

[JTdiRtyD]

Heres my .02c.

I would get the turbo replaced while warranty will cover it. Replacing the turbo is a cab off procedure, and when my buddy just got it done it was a $12k bill that was fully covered by warranty.

The worm gears in the actuator are plastic of some sort. I'm not sure exactly whats happening that causes the code, but its heat related. If they are getting out of wack from heat and thats what causes the code, then not replacing the turbo could result in a hefty bill later on down the road.

I would also not wait, because the code will be cleared after X amount of miles and sleep cycles. I'm currently trying to recreate conditions to pop the code again because mine were cleared before I was able to get to the dealership, and unfortunately theres no place close to me where I can easily recreate the conditions.

 

[biodiesel]

For everyday driving I had them dialed in after the first week and the diesel rides better than I thought possible. I’ve only pulled the trailer 3 times now for less than 200 miles. The first couple tows I added one click to both front and rear high speed compression adjusters but the front felt a little stiff and the rear was still a little soft. Today while driving 130 miles I added one more click to the rear shocks and backed off one on the front. Today’s drive towing was as good as an every day drive empty.

That's good to hear!

I’ve got the high speed compression at 5 front and 4 rear for everyday driving. 5 front and 6 rear for towing the small travel trailer. That leaves adjustment both directions should I need it.

How heavy is your trailer when loaded? Do you know the loaded tongue weight?

My only complaint with Accutune is their low speed compression tune. I have the front at 9 and rear at 8 out of 10 so almost fully firm. I’d prefer to be more mid range to allow for adjustment if needed. Most of my driving here is either state highway or washboard dirt and gravel. I may back off a couple of clicks on low speed adjustment while on I-40 just to see how it feels.

I can understand wanting room for adjustment at either end. Maybe with some more miles, you'll be able to get the adjustment you want/need at the lower speeds.

 

[biodiesel]

Replacing the turbo is a cab off procedure, and when my buddy just got it done it was a $12k bill that was fully covered by warranty.

It shouldn't be anywhere close to $12,000. The turbo itself is only $1,200. I think the book time is something like 8 hours. I'm not sure what Mopar pays per hour for warranty work, but even at $250 per hours x 8 hours = $2,000 labor. The cost outside of warranty should be closer to $3,500.

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