Sport S with Max tow the way to go?

[TheWingman]

Sport S Max Tow

Beautiful truck! What size BFG's are those and what wheels are they?

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[WXman]

Some of what he says is illogical to me. He says if you have an 1,100 lb payload capacity, and IF you have 700 lbs of people and 100 lbs of gear in the back, you have only 300 lbs of payload left, which means you then have only 300 lbs of payload/tongue weight left to pull a 3,000 lb trailer.

Correct.

But you could just throw the 100 lbs of gear into the trailer instead of the back of the truck, and then you would have 400 lbs of payload/tongue weight available to haul a 4,000 lb trailer.

In any event, I’m glad my family doesn’t weigh 700 lbs.

What if there's no room in the trailer? In any case, that's why he specifically said it was hypothetical. The point of the video, which is spot-on, is that there is a huge difference between maximum towing capacity and what the average family is going to have for towing capacity. Salesmen are usually clueless, and consumers are too. The video was meant to explain something that few people think about when shopping trucks.

Funny thing: My JLUS had a payload of 850 pounds. When my wife and I and our 3 kids got into that Jeep, we were at maximum legal load. And we are not fat people. In fact, 4 of us are kind of skinny. :D But, nobody shopping Jeeps or trucks ever thinks about this. On our camping trips, we were legally overloaded WITHOUT a trailer.

I was going to go Sport S max tow, but bought a Rubicon instead. A few things to remember with regards to towing and payload:
If you throw larger tires and a lift on your max tow, you are really no longer at the same ratings as stock. Yes tires are unsprung weight, but the diameter difference effectively changes your gear ratio, which does affect tow and payload capacity. Tire weight also does have an affect- it is rotational mass, and requires more engine power to get it moving (once up to speed not as much of a difference). Others have argued that tires and lifts dont affect towing and payload because they are unsprung weight- that is simply not correct. Essentially if you take a max tow and add the tires etc... of a rubicon like so many do right off the lot that door placard is no longer accurate. If Jeep could have rated the Rubicon to tow 7650 with 33” tires they would have done it.

My reasons for going Rubicon were actually financial. Yes you can add tires, lift and aftermarket leather for less than the up charge of the rubicon. But once you get into lockers and sway disco you will spend far more than the rubicon up charge. The rubicons equipment is fully warrantied, aftermarket will not be. Rubicon resale will be higher. You will never get your money back from modifying a Sport S max tow- you would likely be better off taking all the parts off and selling them outright and then selling the vehicle stock.

Nothing wrong with the max tow, but its certainly not the end all be all of the JT.

But if you add tires and a lift, new shocks etc...then what is the difference? I understand the door placard will show higher payload, but once you modify the truck like a Rubicon that placard is no longer accurate, sure if you get stopped and weighed it might save a ticket, but as far as the real capability of the truck goes I dont think you are gaining much.

Basically what I am saying is that a max tow is a sport s, with the wider rubicon axles and 4.10 gears, but with the smaller tires and suspension of the sport s. So once you add larger tires, lift, you are right back at the rubicon. Only difference after those mods is the transfer case, locking diffs and sway disco, which shouldn’t affect towing or payload. Weight of the truck is a factor, but I doubt the t case lockers and disco weigh a whole lot.

It would be a different story if the max tow added something the rubicon doesnt have, like say heavier coils, but I don’t believe that is the case- correct me if I am wrong.

Incorrect. In the eyes of the law, that door jamb placard IS the law. You can put 40" tires and a 6" lift on a Max Tow and it does not take you back to a Rubicon. Remember, we're not talking practical terms here. Everybody knows a Rubicon will pull the exact same trailer a Max Tow will. What we're talking about is in legal terms. Liability. Who gets nailed with a citation if a Vehicle Enforcement officer pulls you over. Who gets nailed by the insurance company if there's a crash. That's what is really important.

The 33% additional legal payload of the Max Tow is THE game changer. It opens possibilities for using the Gladiator as a truck that the other two trims just simply do not have and never will have.

 

[aj8544]

What if there's no room in the trailer? In any case, that's why he specifically said it was hypothetical. The point of the video, which is spot-on, is that there is a huge difference between maximum towing capacity and what the average family is going to have for towing capacity. Salesmen are usually clueless, and consumers are too. The video was meant to explain something that few people think about when shopping trucks.

Funny thing: My JLUS had a payload of 850 pounds. When my wife and I and our 3 kids got into that Jeep, we were at maximum legal load. And we are not fat people. In fact, 4 of us are kind of skinny. :D But, nobody shopping Jeeps or trucks ever thinks about this. On our camping trips, we were legally overloaded WITHOUT a trailer.





Incorrect. In the eyes of the law, that door jamb placard IS the law. You can put 40" tires and a 6" lift on a Max Tow and it does not take you back to a Rubicon. Remember, we're not talking practical terms here. Everybody knows a Rubicon will pull the exact same trailer a Max Tow will. What we're talking about is in legal terms. Liability. Who gets nailed with a citation if a Vehicle Enforcement officer pulls you over. Who gets nailed by the insurance company if there's a crash. That's what is really important.

The 33% additional legal payload of the Max Tow is THE game changer. It opens possibilities for using the Gladiator as a truck that the other two trims just simply do not have and never will have.

For me the practical difference is what matters. Im not as concerned with getting a citation as I am with safety and staying within the trucks limits. Yes I am sure there is some excess built into the numbers, so you may be safe a bit over the rating. I tow alot, and it is all fun and games towing beyond the vehicles limits until someone pulls out in front of you and emergency maneuvers are required.

Again nothing wrong with the max tow, but if you buy it really needing that payload or tow capacity, adding tires and a lift does compromise the real capability, and perhaps your safety and that of others- no matter what the door sticker says.

 

[PyrPatriot]

But if you add tires and a lift, new shocks etc...then what is the difference? I understand the door placard will show higher payload, but once you modify the truck like a Rubicon that placard is no longer accurate, sure if you get stopped and weighed it might save a ticket, but as far as the real capability of the truck goes I dont think you are gaining much.

Basically what I am saying is that a max tow is a sport s, with the wider rubicon axles and 4.10 gears, but with the smaller tires and suspension of the sport s. So once you add larger tires, lift, you are right back at the rubicon. Only difference after those mods is the transfer case, locking diffs and sway disco, which shouldn’t affect towing or payload. Weight of the truck is a factor, but I doubt the t case lockers and disco weigh a whole lot.

It would be a different story if the max tow added something the rubicon doesnt have, like say heavier coils, but I don’t believe that is the case- correct me if I am wrong.

Ah, then yes I understand what you mean now

 

[PyrPatriot]

What if there's no room in the trailer? In any case, that's why he specifically said it was hypothetical. The point of the video, which is spot-on, is that there is a huge difference between maximum towing capacity and what the average family is going to have for towing capacity. Salesmen are usually clueless, and consumers are too. The video was meant to explain something that few people think about when shopping trucks.

Funny thing: My JLUS had a payload of 850 pounds. WhenIn the eyes of the law, that door jamb placard IS the law. You can put 40" tires and a 6" lift on a Max Tow and it does not take you back to a Rubicon. Remember, we're not talking practical terms here. Everybody knows a Rubicon will pull the exact same trailer a Max Tow will. What we're talking about is in legal terms. Liability. Who gets nailed with a citation if a Vehicle Enforcement

Incorrect. In the eyes of the law, that door jamb placard IS the law. You can put 40" tires and a 6" lift on a Max Tow and it does not take you back to a Rubicon. Remember, we're not talking practical terms here. Everybody knows a Rubicon will pull the exact same trailer a Max Tow will. What we're talking about is in legal terms. Liability. Who gets nailed with a citation if a Vehicle Enforcement officer pulls you over. Who gets nailed by the insurance company if there's a crash. That's what is really important.

I was under the impression that the placard was only for factory configuration. As 49 CFR 567.7 only applies to the manufacturer or an authorized vehicle "alterer." "Alterer meaning someone who adds, substitutes, or removes components (other than readily attachable components) a certified vehicle before the first purchase of the vehicle other than for resale."
An "Alterer" approved by NHTSA may modify vehicles following very strict guidelines. Essentially: "This part applies to incomplete vehicle manufacturers, intermediate manufacturers, and final-stage manufacturers of vehicles manufactured in two or more stages."
Upon completion of a vehicle alteration, an additional label must be applied near and not covering the Original Equipment Manufacturer's (OEM) Certification Label.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol6/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol6-sec567-7.pdf
https://fifthwheelst.com/altering_vehicle_weight_certification.html


So where does that leave folks who modify on their own? Well you don't really find out until you are in a lawsuit and both attorneys hire experts at $50k a pop to testify how your mods did or did not result in a deviation from OEM specs. One of my good friends is a prominent auto-accident attorney. You mod your vehicle, you expose yourself to liability. Two major insurance companies (their underwriters) also told me the same thing.

 

[MarineHawk]

What if there's no room in the trailer?

Obviously, if a trailer is so full that 100 lbs of gear won't fit in it:

* You can't put 100 lbs of gear in the trailer.

 

[JustinWPI11]

Picked my new JT with Max tow up on Tuesday. In typical Maine fashion right during a snow storm.

You all make some great points. For me the Max tow gave me what I was looking at a much lower cost then the Rubicon. I don’t plan to add any lockers or disconnecting sway bar as my off-roading is really just remote hunting. The Max tow gives me more payload for what I can put in the truck for hunting gear and whatever I’m lucky enough to take down. Would have loved a Rubicon but for the money the Max tow just made the most sense.

 

[DAVECS1]

Picked my new JT with Max tow up on Tuesday. In typical Maine fashion right during a snow storm.

You all make some great points. For me the Max tow gave me what I was looking at a much lower cost then the Rubicon. I don’t plan to add any lockers or disconnecting sway bar as my off-roading is really just remote hunting. The Max tow gives me more payload for what I can put in the truck for hunting gear and whatever I’m lucky enough to take down. Would have loved a Rubicon but for the money the Max tow just made the most sense.

That is a great jeep. I really love that color. I was really torn between that and gray. I wanted something that hid scratches well for going off road but I love Gobi. Great choice, and if it means anything I think you made the right one. Half tge fun with these is building it over time. Why get everything installed upfront lol!

 

[HemiMagnum1]

Beautiful truck! What size BFG's are those and what wheels are they?

Thanks!! 285/70/R17 BFGs on Quadratec 41 wheels in smoke bronze. Good combo! People seem to dig it!

 

[SgtMajTomahawk]

If I could do it all over again, I'd more than likely buy the Sport S with max tow. I could have built one with almost every option including 8.4" infotainment, both safety packages, cold weather package, Mopar / Katzkin leather, dual tops, etc. for around $7000 less than what I paid for my Rubicon. That's a nice chunk of change.

Enough for better lockers and wheels and tires of your choice.

 

[SgtMajTomahawk]

Max Tow is the only one they sell in my mind. If you must, you can add lockers and a disconnecting sway bar. What you cannot add is the 33% additional payload and higher towing. Start with Max Tow always and then add only what you need.

FYI you can spend $100 for quick disconnect sway bars and actually get more flex than the electronic disconnect.

 

[Dimo29]

I got my Sport-S Max tow in July and I have ~5k on the clock. Towed a 24ft boat, a trailer full of cinder blocks and done a fair share of off-roading on different terrain... Sand (Pismo beach and Glamis) Hard pack, Gorman, ca and Anza Borrego / Ocatillo wells. She did great in deep snow and ice this past big bear trip too.

Now; Im not easy on her AT ALL. I have a lead foot and am not afraid to "break" my rig. Had a JKU and went through 2 dana 30's till I got a G2 D44 upfront and I sent it a few times after that too.

What this machine lacks in horsepower it makes up in brute strength. She's just as stubborn as me, refuses to give up and can pull out a full size Ram 1500 towing a built Razor xp4 turbo on a 14ft trailor though deep sand (Pismo beach, CA). If any of you have been to Glamis, I aired down my tires to 12psi she ran up Oldsmobile hill (on the far left) and went through the grandfather dunes like a champ. Got high centered one time but was able to be pulled out in 3 minutes by my buddy in a rzr and it never happened again. Anza Borrego was challenging... the obstacles there are meant for Wranglers but I pulled through with minimal effort.

All n all im very happy with my decision to go with a Gladiaor over Wrangler & even more happy I got the max tow over the Rubi. Spending that 11k difference to get her dialed in just the way I want and waiting on a proven blower system. LOVE THIS THING SO FAR

Some pics attached, couldn't figure out how to add videos... if anyone would like to see any videos just lmk


My Build:
Sport-S w/ HD axles 4.10 gearing (Max Tow)
2.5” eVo lift
Fox shocks (rubi takeoffs)
Fox ATS steering stabilizer
Rubicon Hood
Magna-flow exhaust
Pro comp wheels
Toyo Open country M/T 37x12.50r17
Bed liner’d the grill
Trimmed front and backfenders
Hooke off road Metal front fender liners (blinker & running lights mounted in fender liner)
Predator Led headlights
Truck light Led fogs
RGB rock lights
ARB on board air mounted under rear seat
DV8 modular front bumper
12k TOUGH STUFF winch
RC Sway bar disconnects
High lift jack and Rotopax gas can mounted in the bed
Oedro bed cover
Hooke off road Roof Rack

 

[DAVECS1]

I got my Sport-S Max tow in July and I have ~5k on the clock. Towed a 24ft boat, a trailer full of cinder blocks and done a fair share of off-roading on different terrain... Sand (Pismo beach and Glamis) Hard pack, Gorman, ca and Anza Borrego / Ocatillo wells. She did great in deep snow and ice this past big bear trip too.

Now; Im not easy on her AT ALL. I have a lead foot and am not afraid to "break" my rig. Had a JKU and went through 2 dana 30's till I got a G2 D44 upfront and I sent it a few times after that too.

What this machine lacks in horsepower it makes up in brute strength. She's just as stubborn as me, refuses to give up and can pull out a full size Ram 1500 towing a built Razor xp4 turbo on a 14ft trailor though deep sand (Pismo beach, CA). If any of you have been to Glamis, I aired down my tires to 12psi she ran up Oldsmobile hill (on the far left) and went through the grandfather dunes like a champ. Got high centered one time but was able to be pulled out in 3 minutes by my buddy in a rzr and it never happened again. Anza Borrego was challenging... the obstacles there are meant for Wranglers but I pulled through with minimal effort.

All n all im very happy with my decision to go with a Gladiaor over Wrangler & even more happy I got the max tow over the Rubi. Spending that 11k difference to get her dialed in just the way I want and waiting on a proven blower system. LOVE THIS THING SO FAR

Some pics attached, couldn't figure out how to add videos... if anyone would like to see any videos just lmk


My Build:
Sport-S w/ HD axles 4.10 gearing (Max Tow)
2.5” eVo lift
Fox shocks (rubi takeoffs)
Fox ATS steering stabilizer
Rubicon Hood
Magna-flow exhaust
Pro comp wheels
Toyo Open country M/T 37x12.50r17
Bed liner’d the grill
Trimmed front and backfenders
Hooke off road Metal front fender liners (blinker & running lights mounted in fender liner)
Predator Led headlights
Truck light Led fogs
RGB rock lights
ARB on board air mounted under rear seat
DV8 modular front bumper
12k TOUGH STUFF winch
RC Sway bar disconnects
High lift jack and Rotopax gas can mounted in the bed
Oedro bed cover
Hooke off road Roof Rack

Love your post, I feel the same way though, I don't have as much fun on the clock.

As far as a proven blower system, that comment peaked my interest as I am in the same boat. I am looking closely at the Magnuson system. There is a shop on the forum, that says they have had good luck with the install. Understood it is one data point. I am leaning towards giving it a try. Was wondering your thoughts on the system.

 

[Dimo29]

Love your post, I feel the same way though, I don't have as much fun on the clock.

As far as a proven blower system, that comment peaked my interest as I am in the same boat. I am looking closely at the Magnuson system. There is a shop on the forum, that says they have had good luck with the install. Understood it is one data point. I am leaning towards giving it a try. Was wondering your thoughts on the system.

Thanks man, I wrote that up a few weeks ago for another post but it fit here so I thought id share it.

As far as blowers go; im not a big fan of anything that is unstable. So far, from my limited research Magnuson has the least amount of problems with their kits and 'whatever' customer service. Sprintech has install issues and some other knickknack problems (probably preventing their release) but amazing customer service and procharger is hit or miss on boost, not very expensive and customer service is hit or miss as well depending on what kind of person picks up the phone (I.E a desk guy or a real life mechanic). Ive called all 3 to pick their brains and am leaning towards procharger for their simplicity and the fact that I know a guy whos local to me in socal who has one, been running it for months with 0 issues. The guy, (by his own admission) cant turn a wrench so customer service and warranty is impt to him. I like warranty and all but im sort of an indy mechanic with no formal training so I may take a crack at procharger in the near future

 

[DAVECS1]

I have done Magnuson twice in the past. Had pretty good luck, but I ended up doing the tunes myself eventually

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