New JT Gladiator Steering Issue TSB 08-074-20 (for "Improved Steering Feel")

[ShadowsPapa]

The difference is you don’t lie to the customer - “ there is something wrong, we are aware and have notified the manufacturer” would be much preferred over “it’s a Jeep thing - nothing we can do”. Clearly FCA did know or there wouldn’t be a TSB.

EXACTLY my point! BE HONEST.
That's how I operate with customers - some customers of one shop I worked at appreciated my honesty and efforts so much that they came in requesting ME be the one work on their vehicles - and the shop owner had to oblige. They knew I'd stick with something, or not try to BS them. It's right or I'll let them know why and what could be done about it.
Pissed off the service manager as I was taking his elite customers LOL, he treated me like crap for a while after - but I was always up front, honest. Customers prefer that over shrugging it off as "you don't have a problem, it's a Jeep thing".

You nailed exactly how I'd handle it.
Lawsuits come from customers who have been lied to or BSd or treated poorly. Seldom do they come from customers you treat right and are always up front, even if it's an answer they won't like at all.

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[cecaa850]

Now that's really stretching things a bit - lawsuit? Have you worked in shops?

Worked in and ran, yes. Been involved in several lawsuits.

Refusing to fix it? How can it be fixed if engineering hasn't released a fix yet.
You're over-simplifying things- the timeline, etc.

Not oversimplifying anything.

Form what we KNOW for FACT, the manufacturer never said there was no problem.
You can BET that some shops saw it as a problem - likely that's why there was finally a fix from Jeep - a few shops realized there was something going on. That's usually what it takes - shops reporting back that they have seen troubles and asking Jeep for help. It's not the few dozen NHTSA complaints - it's dealer shops agreeing there's a problem combined with customer complaints. Takes more than a few.

If the manufacturer recognized it as a problem and wanted it known that it was a problem they would have told the dealers that they were working on an improved gear which they never did.

AFAWK, there was never a word from Jeep to the dealers on telling the dealers to say "it's normal" - not that came out in the forum.

The manufacturers tell the dealers to use the phrase "normal by comparison" in these cases. Any other verbage used was made up by dealers that didn't know what to tell their customers.


I'll bet it was the shops deciding to say that, not Jeep telling the shop to say that.
I'd like to see a post where a member said they went to the dealership and the dealership worked with FCA and got a quote from FCA saying "tell 'em it's normal" or Jeep telling the dealer "there is no problem" - the dealers never worked that hard.
As far as we know that never happened.
It's more like the dealership shops pushing back at the customer. I'd bet that almost none of them ever did anything further than tell the customer "you don't have a problem" - I'd bet they never contacted Jeep. Just because they didn't KNOW of any problem, they told the customer there IS no problem.

By your own statement above dealers made engineering aware of the issue.


If I hadn't gotten Jeep directly involved with my tonneau cover and taken the TSB in, the dealers here would have never in a million years even bothered to ask Jeep if something was going on. They don't do that as a normal practice. They kept telling me that cover was normal. Two shops did that. Even the second time, they didn't want to call Jeep even though I gave them a name and number to call - no, there's no problem, we won't do that. Then another guy spoke up and said yeah, call them, I've heard of this.

This goes right back to the dealer shops NOT looking into it or not even trying to see if there really WAS something to it. If I hadn't taken the TSB to the dealer shop, they'd not have known - they were the sort that never contacted Jeep to see if they were aware of anything - so as far as WE know, Jeep never told the dealers it was normal - they likely never asked.

The techs these days don't get to talk to customers anyway - they are shielded that way.
You go through management or the service writers.
And you aren't refusing to fix it - you are not ABLE to yet.
I would never lie to a customer. I'll let the boss do that - and that's exactly what happened in one shop, and I walked out.

Good stores go the extra mile and get the manufacturer involved. Crappy ones don't.

Really, honestly my biggest beef was with people HERE pushing back hard at complaining JT owners "get over it, it's just the way they are".
No it's not.

That wasn't me and I agree with you on this.

 

[cecaa850]

The difference is you don’t lie to the customer - “ there is something wrong, we are aware and have notified the manufacturer” would be much preferred over “it’s a Jeep thing - nothing we can do”. Clearly FCA did know or there wouldn’t be a TSB.

Normal by design, operating to factory spec or similar to like vehicles is really all that can be said if you want to keep your butt out of court in between the consumer and the manufacturer. You can however tell the customer that you've contacted engineering and documented their concerns

 

[Tapped_Out]

Instead of arguing about lawsuits why don't you guys do this: If you can live without the vehicle, take it to the dealer and tell them it's un-driveable for you because of the steering hazard. Then demand the dealer take possession of it. Then let it hit the lemon law timeline in your state for days in the shop. Or force them to give you a loaner.

 

[ShotCaller]

I dropped mine off on Wednesday. They were slow to fix it, and terrible about communicating the delays, but I finally got it back this evening. I thought it was odd that the service guy was waiting for me as it was well after business hours. He pulled the car out of the bay and waves me outside. He says the replaced they "the parts" (I have to crawl under and verify still) but had a bit of a mishap. A mishap indeed....they managed to spray power steering fluid all over the engine bay, front bumper and both fender flares.

They tried taking it to a car wash to get it out, which, obviously didn't work for the plastic as these are the "after" shots. A car wash also doesn't clean my engine bay (not as concerned about this though, it's an engine bay). Now I have to wait until Monday to go back there so they can get it detailed.

I don't think they'll be able to get that plastic clean. In my experience, once an "oil" touches that kind of plastic, it is forever stained. I hope I'm wrong though.

That all being said, at least they owned up to it and they're trying to fix it.

After all of that, the steering is marginally better, still feels quite lose. That's why I still need to check the part numbers. Update: Part number indicates they replaced the steering box

Oh, and the emergency braking system kicked in at 5MPH in traffic on the way home with nothing in front of me for 50 ft. Not fun.

This really sucks. Probably had some jr tech working on it who didn't know what he was doing.

If it really looks bad, i would threaten legal action and made them replace all the plastic parts that it messed up. Also thats not good for all the electrical connections.

 

[TheGreatCO]

This really sucks. Probably had some jr tech working on it who didn't know what he was doing.

If it really looks bad, i would threaten legal action and made them replace all the plastic parts that it messed up. Also thats not good for all the electrical connections.

They are getting the car detailed tomorrow. If it still doesn't look good, I'm gonna make a big stink. Giving them a chance to make right on their terms.

 

[cecaa850]

Instead of arguing about lawsuits why don't you guys do this: If you can live without the vehicle, take it to the dealer and tell them it's un-driveable for you because of the steering hazard. Then demand the dealer take possession of it. Then let it hit the lemon law timeline in your state for days in the shop. Or force them to give you a loaner.

Good luck with that.

 

[Tapped_Out]

Good luck with that.

No, actually, good luck with that lawsuit fantasy. When purchasing these vehicles you agreed to arbitration, not lawsuits.

You'll have better luck doing what I'm suggesting and filing thing such as BBB complaints, etc., then you will with pipe-dreams of taking them to court. What's that going to cost you? Who's going to take your case? Good luck with that too.

 

[cecaa850]

No, actually, good luck with that lawsuit fantasy. When purchasing these vehicles you agreed to arbitration, not lawsuits.

You'll have better luck doing what I'm suggesting and filing thing such as BBB complaints, etc., then you will with pipe-dreams of taking them to court. What's that going to cost you? Who's going to take your case? Good luck with that too.

The dealership will say that your vehicle is safe to drive. You can abandon your vehicle there but the days it sits won't count toward the lemon law. Courtesy alternate transportation is a goodwill judgement from the dealership. Not a warranty benefit.

 

[TrainMan]

Can't believe the mess some of these dealers are making with fluid spill. I used to work at a farm equipment dealer...dirty smelly tractors! We ALWAYS returned the farm equipment back to the customer cleaner than when they brought it in! A tractor, combine, baler, or even a shit spreader. We took it to the wash bay, sprayed it down with Purple Power, and then power washed it...and then hand washed it! Vacuum out the cab...they were clean! Amazing a car dealer can't do the same.

 

[TrainMan]

Another update from Facebook. Revision B. Added steering gear ratios and some updated information for dealers.

 

[Vyndralys]

I get to start the process with my JT now too.

This is my first Jeep and 4x4 so when I was test driving and for the first couple months of having it, I thought it was a byproduct of Wrangler + Truck + 4x4 and just dealt with it.

Last week, I end up taking my JT in for the back window leak and decided to look at forums to see if anyone else was having that issue and what to expect as a normal solution. That's when I found out about the TSB for the steering. Since it was already in the shop, I asked them to look at that as well.

At first the tech said it was because of my snow tires I recently had put on. I told them it's been an ongoing issue since the day I bought the JT. They didn't give any pushback over that and ordered a new steering box.

Once my window is fixed I will see what their ETA is on getting the new box in and installed. I will also keep an eye out to make sure the parts match the updated TSB and to watch out for steering fluid.

 

[ucijeepguy]

Still fucking waiting on this bullshit steering! Ive got a road trip with my trailer next week and still have not recieved the parts! @JeepCares This is bullshit!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Can't believe the mess some of these dealers are making with fluid spill. I used to work at a farm equipment dealer...dirty smelly tractors! We ALWAYS returned the farm equipment back to the customer cleaner than when they brought it in! A tractor, combine, baler, or even a shit spreader. We took it to the wash bay, sprayed it down with Purple Power, and then power washed it...and then hand washed it! Vacuum out the cab...they were clean! Amazing a car dealer can't do the same.

They almost always wash our Jeeps even after just tire rotation and oil changes. When I had my windshield replaced they pretty much detailed the thing inside and out! I was shocked, it looked like it was ready for display in the show room. I almost walked by it thinking it wasn't my truck.

 

[johnparjr]

Well to add on to my post from yesterday my timeline

Made an appointment last week to get in line since everyone here is waiting

Took it in Wednesday they kept it for 2 hours and told me they had the steering box but not the bolts they would have them tomorrow

Took it back in today they had to wait for UPS to deliver the bolts had the JT for 4 hours and its all done.

Correct Part Yep

No issues with Power steering fluid Yep

No mess Yep

All done in 2 days no month's or weeks waiting Yep

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