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angrynewyorker

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Typical ecodiesel. I can't believe that anyone would actually want one of these.
Yeah because no gas engines ever have problems. Hey guys, the sky is falling because there have been a few issues with a mechanical device. All mechanical devices have a certain amount of failures no matter what they are. I guess I better sell mine now and buy another mechanical device because that one is guaranteed not to fail, right?
 
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Yeah because no gas engines ever have problems. Hey guys, the sky is falling because there have been a few issues with a mechanical device. All mechanical devices have a certain amount of failures no matter what they are. I guess I better sell mine now and buy another mechanical device because that one is guaranteed not to fail, right?
Let's say you've got three engine choices in your new truck. We'll call them A, B, and C.

C sells at a very low volume compared to A and B, but C has also shown a higher percentage of failures than A and B, which means that mathematically, C is many times more likely to experience a failure.

A is standard.

B costs $1,200 upcharge.

C costs $5,000 upcharge.

Which engine do you pick?

That's the reason the Ram guys are so mad. We have to pay a LOT more for this diesel, and then we have to deal with a lot more problems. It isn't a good situation.
 

TheSolarWizard

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Theres two gladiators in the shop at my dealership getting new engines. obviously neither is a diesel.
So the real question is it due to the fact that some of these engines have had problems due to an issue with the design or due to the fact that humans still assemble the engines?

if it’s an assembly issue, that can and very likely will be overcome, hopefully by replacing humans with more robots
 

angrynewyorker

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Let's say you've got three engine choices in your new truck. We'll call them A, B, and C.

C sells at a very low volume compared to A and B, but C has also shown a higher percentage of failures than A and B, which means that mathematically, C is many times more likely to experience a failure.
I pick the engine that I want.

A is standard.

B costs $1,200 upcharge.

C costs $5,000 upcharge.

Which engine do you pick?

That's the reason the Ram guys are so mad. We have to pay a LOT more for this diesel, and then we have to deal with a lot more problems. It isn't a good situation.
Theres two gladiators in the shop at my dealership getting new engines. obviously neither is a diesel.
So the real question is it due to the fact that some of these engines have had problems due to an issue with the design or due to the fact that humans
if it’s an assembly issue, that can and very likely will be overcome, hopefully by replacing humans with more robots
 

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angrynewyorker

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Theres two gladiators in the shop at my dealership getting new engines. obviously neither is a diesel.
So the real question is it due to the fact that some of these engines have had problems due to an issue with the design or due to the fact that humans still assemble the engines?

if it’s an assembly issue, that can and very likely will be overcome, hopefully by replacing humans with more robots
Replace more humans with robots? Let’s destroy the whole middle class and our industrial complex and become a total service nation. Then we will fade away off the world scene and become a non issue.
 

cecaa850

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Yeah because no gas engines ever have problems. Hey guys, the sky is falling because there have been a few issues with a mechanical device. All mechanical devices have a certain amount of failures no matter what they are. I guess I better sell mine now and buy another mechanical device because that one is guaranteed not to fail, right?
Of course gas engines fail, but not at the rate of ecodiesels. I'm not an FCA diesel hater, just the opposite. I love Cummins but the ecodiesel is one motor I'd never have. Horrible track record. No reason to think it'll be any better than the first or second iteration.
 

angrynewyorker

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Of course gas engines fail, but not at the rate of ecodiesels. I'm not an FCA diesel hater, just the opposite. I love Cummins but the ecodiesel is one motor I'd never have. Horrible track record. No reason to think it'll be any better than the first or second iteration.
[/QUOTE

For every 1 issue with an eco Diesel engine there are 1000 with no issue. If you don’t like it then don’t buy it. But because a few have a problem doesn’t mean it is no good at all. That would be like not taking a medication or a supplement you need because someone you know of took it and had a problem with it. A small percentage of people will have problems and others will be just fine.
 

TheSolarWizard

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Replace more humans with robots? Let’s destroy the whole middle class and our industrial complex and become a total service nation. Then we will fade away off the world scene and become a non issue.
if humans can’t successfully put together the ever increasingly complex, sensitive and necessary technology we use then those humans shouldnt do those tasks anymore. The middle class would benefit more in the long game of buying more durable things that last much longer.

I have a cousin that works for Tesla. The cybertruck will be easily the most automated assembly vehicle ever to come to broad market. I’ve opted to immediately sell the ones I’ve already ordered as the production constraint will allow a chance for a healthy profit but in 3 years when they’ve been further engineered and I get one, I fully expect I’ll be able to drive it forever. Paint, Fit and finish is the biggest source ire among Tesla owners currently and all of those are affected by human error.
 

angrynewyorker

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if humans can’t successfully put together the ever increasingly complex, sensitive and necessary technology we use then those humans shouldnt do those tasks anymore. The middle class would benefit more in the long game of buying more durable things that last much longer.

I have a cousin that works for Tesla. The cybertruck will be easily the most automated assembly vehicle ever to come to broad market. I’ve opted to immediately sell the ones I’ve already ordered as the production constraint will allow a chance for a healthy profit but in 3 years when they’ve been further engineered and I get one, I fully expect I’ll be able to drive it forever. Paint, Fit and finish is the biggest source ire among Tesla owners currently and all of those are affected by human error.
The issue that will arise as more and more good paying manufacturing jobs disappear is that there will be very few people able to afford to buy the vehicles that are available today. Not very many Walmart employees or Starbucks employees are buying 65,000 dollar Jeeps so they won’t offer them anymore as there will be no demand to warrant the R&D. Everyone wants to blame labor when it may very well be the engineering that failed, or the cheap parts that were put on by the human that were sourced from China. The big 3 tried to blame all their woes years ago on labor costs when they were only building the garbage products that their engineers developed that were far inferior to the product offered by the Japanese manufacturers. The Japanese learned a hard lesson in the early 2000s that they went too far into robotics in auto manufacturing and had no skilled labor left and have taken active measures to reverse that as they realized their need for a skilled workforce. But our stupid American businesses can’t see past the end of the dollar to make decisions that will in the long run pay off for them and their nation
 

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TheSolarWizard

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If people are worried about loss of labor by machines (and they absolutely should be) I suggest they get trained in how to fix or repair machines or learn a skill that’s not so easily replaceable.
 

cecaa850

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Angrynewyorker I hope you never have any problems with yours but I'm sure there'll be plenty of threads of problems in the future. In this case past performance is probably indicative of future results.
 

angrynewyorker

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Angrynewyorker I hope you never have any problems with yours but I'm sure there'll be plenty of threads of problems in the future. In this case past performance is probably indicative of future results.
There are just as many threads with people who have problems with the 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder (over the years for sure, maybe not as much now for the 6). And there are a million other threads for a million other problems with the Jeeps. If I was worried about it I would of bought a Land Cruiser instead. If it has problems I’ll dump it and get something else, not concerned.
 

angrynewyorker

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If people are worried about loss of labor by machines (and they absolutely should be) I suggest they get trained in how to fix or repair machines or learn a skill that’s not so easily replaceable.
Easier said than done when you’re in your mid to late 40s or 50s and are have your job taken away after being there for 25 years or more.
 

WMWHV

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I learned a new term when I started looking at these: "Lifestyle Vehicle." I am not exactly sure what that means, but I think it means that it is an impractical toy that is fun to mess with and drive around with the top off. If I was a contractor, I would buy a pickup or a van. If I had a huge trailer to pull, I would buy an F-250. If any of us was thinking this was a sensible vehicle to buy for reliability and low operating and repair cost, I think that person needs medical help. I am 60 years old. I have worked hard and continue to do so every day so that I can enjoy a decent income. That way, when I want a ridiculous toy with a diesel engine in it, I can go buy it, which I did. My wife just shook her head and said "whatever." Now I am going to have fun with it, but with some security knowing that I hedged my bet with an extended warranty on top of the one I got included with the diesel engine. I am glad I live in a free country where people can form their own opinions, express them freely, make the decisions that seem to make sense for them and change their minds later if they want to.
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