Trying to gather info to find commonality on "misfires"

[Maximus Gladius]

Was updated by my service advisor. I won’t get my truck back till August sometime ? ?it is their prognosis that the misfire is because the intake valve isn’t seating because the cam lobe is off. They’ve ordered right side cam, rockers, gaskets and electrical stuff. I asked about the coolant leak… tech says it’s normal and that I’d have glycol in all my lab results. I call bullshit and said in all my years of doing oil analysis, this is the first time the lab has cautioned me.

I asked if they pressure tested the system and gone in with a bore scoop looking? No, they hadn’t. I told them pressure up the bottle to 21 lbs at the end of the day and see where the dial is in the morning. If it’s down, do some investigating. That coolant is corrosive and is getting in the oil.
He mentioned that when they looked at the plugs, it all looked normal and I asked does it take over 16,000 kms to burp the air out of the engine which would explain filling up the bottle 5 times now??? He said it’s very possible.

I told him if they do all this work and not investigate why the coolant is in my oil, at the end of the day, when I get it back in August and I find coolant in my lab results, the truck is coming back in!

I pray to God the gasket will fix it.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Was updated by my service advisor. I won’t get my truck back till August sometime ? ?it is their prognosis that the misfire is because the intake valve isn’t seating because the cam lobe is off. They’ve ordered right side cam, rockers, gaskets and electrical stuff. I asked about the coolant leak… tech says it’s normal and that I’d have glycol in all my lab results. I call bullshit and said in all my years of doing oil analysis, this is the first time the lab has cautioned me.

I asked if they pressure tested the system and gone in with a bore scoop looking? No, they hadn’t. I told them pressure up the bottle to 21 lbs at the end of the day and see where the dial is in the morning. If it’s down, do some investigating. That coolant is corrosive and is getting in the oil.
He mentioned that when they looked at the plugs, it all looked normal and I asked does it take over 16,000 kms to burp the air out of the engine which would explain filling up the bottle 5 times now??? He said it’s very possible.

I told him if they do all this work and not investigate why the coolant is in my oil, at the end of the day, when I get it back in August and I find coolant in my lab results, the truck is coming back in!

I pray to God the gasket will fix it.

Adding coolant is NOT NORMAL. I've never added any to my truck and I could go a year or more without needing any in my Silverado. These are closed systems. There's no evaporation, no loss - unless there is a leak or an engine issue. They simply do not "consume' coolant. Even my 4.0 engines - decades old - don't have to add coolant between changes unless I have a problem somewhere. I've gone several months since the coolant change in my SX4 with the 4.0 - still up at full cold level in the bottle.
What's with these dopes? Make REALLY sure that you have them write everything down that you say and if nothing else tell @JeepCares that you want a written record of the coolant additions and the oil analysis. Glycol MAY BE found in extremely small quantities, but the level of sodium and silicon to me is very abnormal. You are about 5 times what should be there and there's no real source of sodium in the engine otherwise. You have a baseline for your oil when new so they can't say "oil always has that" because your oil was proven to not have that level.

Valve not closing because the cam lobe is off? Uh, no - not unless that lifter is pumped up full and stuck there. And I'd almost bet that's the case. A lifter is stuck. Otherwise, that cam lobe on the base circle is not touching the "lifter" until there's oil in the lifter. It's different than the old flat tappet cams of old but still the concept is the same. The lifter fills that gap between cam and valve. Otherwise you'd have solid lifters and have to adjust them. These are still hydraulic lifter systems. And since these are variable lift valve systems (VVL) how could the cam

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Mine was doing the same thing before it died. During acceleration there was a flat spot, like it wasn't getting any fuel. Once it got past a certain RPM it picked back up and took off. My engine was very noisy, had a knock on startup, and I also had a detonation problem that could be heard all of the time..Marbles in the motor.

At the time of my last oil change my coolant was low, I believe it took 1/2 a gallon to top off which I thought was strange. I had a ton of white smoke coming out of the tail pipe all of the time, hot or cold, and a lots of condensation also. I had taken it in for all of these things and was told by the dealer that it was normal. It obviously wasn't because now I am waiting on a new motor!

1/2 gallon? Holy cow, that's a lot! And white "smoke" - wrong, that is NOT normal! There should be no smoke.
What the heck is wrong with these people?
Adding of coolant like that is absolutely crazy. I've had mine since November 2019 - over 1.5 years and the coolant level has not dropped, nor should it.
White smoke would alarm me and i'd probably load mine up on my trailer and TOW it in and not drive it because i've seen the results of coolant of that amount getting in.


Make sure you keep DETAILED records and force them to make note of everything you have told them and if nothing else, get JeepCares involved - and make sure they have it all documented.

These dealers saying white smoke, the addition of coolant and pinging of that magnitude is normal are - inept, whatever.
Mist or smoke seen in the summer, warm weather is definitely not normal and white is definitely not normal. Coolant out the exhaust is definitely something you'll never forget once you smell it. It's a smell I can only try to describe as "bitter", rancid, can't come up with a good word. But it's a nasty smell unlike any other vehicle exhaust smell. You'll know it.

So there's TWO with coolant additions and now in the shop for engines.
I'd love to hear from anyone else who has had to add coolant not due to a leak.

 

[glassjawkid32]

May 2021 Build; Mojave 3.6, automatic
1,200 Miles

Not sure if mine is transmission programming related or engine related: During the first thousand miles, I have experienced a surging or slight 'bucking' sensation that seems like a misfire or the programming seems off.

Examples:
1. Sometimes simply rolling with no pedal input, at near idle RPMs through the neighborhood and there is a subtle bucking or pulsation like the transmission doesn't know what gear to be in.
2. Pulling through 3000-4500, partial throttle it feels like engine timing is fluctuating, something is misfiring or bad fuel type of pulsation sensations - not a smooth acceleration until higher RPMs.
3. 50% throttle, engine seems to struggle to rev, like it has constipation, gets to 4500 rpm and suddenly pops/snaps and comes alive - like something was constraining.

I've tried a different set of wheels and tires from an Overland, reducing unsprung weight by 125lbs. I think this may have amplified the sensations. I took it to the dealer, they thought the wheel tire setup may have been messing with the ECU but it's off by less than 1 mph when compared to Waze. They scanned for codes and did not find any. I put the Mojave stock wheels back on, drove 100 miles or so and its still randomly doing the issue.

Is there a data logging software that I could use to try and capture if its engine or transmission related?

Also have the 3.6, built a few months ago. Same sensation when rolling but none of the other symptoms I have witnessed. I was under the impression that this was only an issue on models built in 2020 during a certain time period.crossing my fingers and hoping its not due to this issue...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Also have the 3.6, built a few months ago. Same sensation when rolling but none of the other symptoms I have witnessed. I was under the impression that this was only an issue on models built in 2020 during a certain time period.crossing my fingers and hoping its not due to this issue...

The problem is there's no coherent set of data on "misfires". It's all over the place and scattered and mixed about.

I really wish there was a way to get anyone who has a misfire, setting codes or not, MIL or not, to give all pertinent information so I could put it all in a spreadsheet. But most folks who have had misfire issues haven't seen this, or have chosen to move on and not give information related to a misfire - and/or coolant loss.
Two having loss of coolant and engine problems means there's likely others out there.

 

[stew7710]

I have a OBDLink M+ arriving today and I'll see if I can capture some data. My coolant level is at the plastic seam on the bottle when cold, I'll keep an eye on it.

 

[glassjawkid32]

The problem is there's no coherent set of data on "misfires". It's all over the place and scattered and mixed about.

I really wish there was a way to get anyone who has a misfire, setting codes or not, MIL or not, to give all pertinent information so I could put it all in a spreadsheet. But most folks who have had misfire issues haven't seen this, or have chosen to move on and not give information related to a misfire - and/or coolant loss.
Two having loss of coolant and engine problems means there's likely others out there.

Yeah mine only started doing it a week ago and I can't say for sure it's a misfire yet but if I have any new developments I'll bring them to this thread.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Adding coolant is NOT NORMAL. I've never added any to my truck and I could go a year or more without needing any in my Silverado. These are closed systems. There's no evaporation, no loss - unless there is a leak or an engine issue. They simply do not "consume' coolant. Even my 4.0 engines - decades old - don't have to add coolant between changes unless I have a problem somewhere. I've gone several months since the coolant change in my SX4 with the 4.0 - still up at full cold level in the bottle.
What's with these dopes? Make REALLY sure that you have them write everything down that you say and if nothing else tell @JeepCares that you want a written record of the coolant additions and the oil analysis. Glycol MAY BE found in extremely small quantities, but the level of sodium and silicon to me is very abnormal. You are about 5 times what should be there and there's no real source of sodium in the engine otherwise. You have a baseline for your oil when new so they can't say "oil always has that" because your oil was proven to not have that level.

Valve not closing because the cam lobe is off? Uh, no - not unless that lifter is pumped up full and stuck there. And I'd almost bet that's the case. A lifter is stuck. Otherwise, that cam lobe on the base circle is not touching the "lifter" until there's oil in the lifter. It's different than the old flat tappet cams of old but still the concept is the same. The lifter fills that gap between cam and valve. Otherwise you'd have solid lifters and have to adjust them. These are still hydraulic lifter systems. And since these are variable lift valve systems (VVL) how could the cam

Let’s do a little coolant consumption math in my case. The amount of coolant from the MIN line the MAX line is approximately 1 cup. Bottle topped up every 5500 kms is 2 cups of coolant during the life of an oil change, roughly, seeping into my oil through the cylinder. My tech feels this is normal.

Let’s reverse the flow now and why don’t we put 2 cups of oil into coolant and drive that around for a while….
Is that still ok or NORMAL??! JEEP CARES , are you reading this!?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Let’s do a little coolant consumption math in my case. The amount of coolant from the MIN line the MAX line is approximately 1 cup. Bottle topped up every 5500 kms is 2 cups of coolant during the life of an oil change, roughly, seeping into my oil through the cylinder. My tech feels this is normal.

Let’s reverse the flow now and why don’t we put 2 cups of oil into coolant and drive that around for a while….
Is that still ok or NORMAL??! JEEP CARES , are you reading this!?

8 ounces in a cup, 2 cups in a pint, so 16 ounces or a pint, is a lot.
Glycol can get into the oil multiple ways - on a sleeved engine, if it's a wet sleeve, it can get there directly past the sleeve, if it's head gasket it could get into combustion chamber and/or crank case, if it's a cracked cylinder wall, can get to both or either directly, multiple ways, depending on the problem.
The thing is that glycol breaks down real quick at temps 200 degrees and above - making it hard to detect glycol in oil - that means if it's in there, by the time they get a sample, there shouldn't be much because it would have broken down. That's why it's so hard to detect in oil samples. You need to look for the by-products. Yours had two of the indicators of glycol besides glycol itself.

 

[stew7710]

I used AlfaOBD along with my MX+ bluetooth adapter and captured the misfire with my wife's Jeep.

Example of the log I captured -

2021/01/04 11:56:32.011: Faults found: P0303
2021/01/04 11:56:35.970: Faults found: P0303
Error code: P0303
Cylinder 3 ignition failures
Test not complete
Error intermittent
Error warning lamp not requested
CARB Freeze Frame:
___________________
Fault code: P0303
PCM Mileage since MIL On: 0.00 miles
PCM Odometer: 950.27 miles
Open Loop - Bank 1: No
Closed Loop - Bank 1: Yes
Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 1: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 1: No

Which items did you select for the Graph items within the OBDLink software? I have it on my phone and did a test drive with the out of the box settings. Now I am trying to find the log to review and see what was captured.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Which items did you select for the Graph items within the OBDLink software? I have it on my phone and did a test drive with the out of the box settings. Now I am trying to find the log to review and see what was captured.

Been a few months - I forgot exactly how I got it but there was a save log checkbox and I seem to have found reference to it elsewhere -

From another forum -
Chose Status/Faults tab.
Click on Read System Status button.
Be sure Save log checkbox is checked.

-----EDIT--------------
Just opened it on my phone again, once you connect you choose an icon near the top right that's TOOLS, looks like a couple of wrenches crossed into an X
Then choose View faults and status log
You need to choose an app to open and view it in.

 

[stew7710]

This is the app I am using: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/obdlink/id879636351

Is this the correct app?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This is the app I am using: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/obdlink/id879636351

Is this the correct app?

That's OBDLink - it's the free app to use with their bluetooth OBDII device. I have it but have not used it because it wasn't capable of doing what I've been doing. It MAY log errors, I don't know.
I use AlfaOBD - it's what the Ram truck people rave about.

https://www.alfaobd.com/

https://www.alfaobd.com/download.html

I don't believe there's an Apple version. I don't have any Apple devices except an older iPod.

 

[RavensEyeOffroad]

really cool thread, very interesting

 

[JeepCares]

Let’s do a little coolant consumption math in my case. The amount of coolant from the MIN line the MAX line is approximately 1 cup. Bottle topped up every 5500 kms is 2 cups of coolant during the life of an oil change, roughly, seeping into my oil through the cylinder. My tech feels this is normal.

Let’s reverse the flow now and why don’t we put 2 cups of oil into coolant and drive that around for a while….
Is that still ok or NORMAL??! JEEP CARES , are you reading this!?

Hi, Maximus Gladius, I am reading this.

We recommend contacting the team in your region for assistance with your concerns. The Jeep Canada Team can be reached by phone at 1-800-465-2001.

Kate
Jeep Cares

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