So disappointed in this Diesel platform; wish there was a return policy.

[CrazyCooter]

I lived this scenario almost play by play when we got into Idaho, my Dad in the Diesel JL pulling into the slow lane, and a few seconds later mine derated.... Coming back from Cali last week I did get new behaviour... Vehicle got up to 251F Oil temp on a hill climb and did not derate. NOT TOWING.

I have only towed once. My small M416 with camping gear, and that time I had no issues. Guess maybe I need to pull it everywhere LOL... will have to lay a coat of Sting-Gray down on it first

Seems there are too many factors to be able to predict it... I will say that under 5000 miles on the OD and it would always derate at 248F, and after 6000 miles on the OD it went up to 251F... but who knows, fuel quality, outside temp, regen status...

Since I have done the horn relocation, and the hood vents from SB, and saw no results, I am now looking at modifying my Smittybuilt Bumper, and trying to take the solenoid off my winch to get everything out from in front of the grill. Was also looking into the possibility of using some Kevlar tubing to direct airflow from the front or the fender over the oil cooler... Engineering by a guy who is not a engineer I guess.

I had a crazy thought this weekend while towing my little travel trailer through the mountains...... Why not start by blocking off sections of the grill and test before spening the time to make all those changes to your bumpers and lighting to see no gain? Like maybe block off the lower 4" of the grill and roadtest....If no significant higher temp change, Highly doubtful making other small changes will see any reductiion?

I really feel that an oil cooler is in order.

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[CreepyJeepy]

I really think the derates are EGT / Inlet temp focused.

For instance I have derated after pulling out from a fuel station, oil temps in the 230's. I have also derated at an oil temp of 260 climbing a grade with a trailer..

If you download the gauges I posted awhile ago you can see the EcoDiesel has several EGT data points. If high temps are sustained for a period of time, it derates. Also if inlet turbo temps are really high, derate.... (heatsoak) When oil temps get high, derate.

The way Tazer got the fan to engage on high without derating is setting the trans temp at 229.

Oil Cooler will help, but water / meth will also help.
I also think the Tazer JL with the cooling mode is a big help.

Long story short, I think the under hood space is too small, the coolers are not wide enough, and there isn't enough airflow. I also question the tuning as the High EGT's to me show's it's running too rich when wide open.

Either way... I still like the jeep. I am just crossing my fingers for FCA to develop a bit better ECU/PCM/Whatever management code.

 

[OrangeCJ]

Wonder if they are they running it rich at WOT to try to keep it cool? My old CJ runs hot when it is too lean, but that is a far cry from a modern diesel engine.

I like the idea of a water/meth system. I was going to run that on my old Turbo Volvo many years back... But throwing another thousand bucks at it, and having to add another fluid into the mix makes me frown. I was also looking at the aftermarket oil cooler delete they do on the 1500 ecoD, but I worry about my warranty with both the injection and the cooler deletion option.

Wonder if a true cold air intake or a snorkel would help.

As mentioned, it has to be a tuning issue... they want it to run as hot as possible to reduce emissions, so our trucks teeter right on the very edge of the danger zone. (TopGun theme song playing in the back of my mind) A steep hill or elevated ambient temps put us in hostile waters....lol. Been a long morning already! hahahahahah

 

[CrazyCooter]

Diesels run cooler when lean....Fuel=Heat which is opposite of a gas engine for the most part.

I'm not the least bit interested in adding weight, loss of space, complication, warranty void, or emissions tampering that the water/meth would bring even if it would fix the issue.

We need to get someone at Jeep involved since they know what the tuning thresholds are. We are just guessing and some of us educated guessing with what we have available to us. Of course this would mean they would have to first admit there is a defect in the vehicle which is the biggest challenge?

 

[LOGS]

Remember when engineers said they would not offer the 2.0T engine because they couldn't keep it cool in the tight JT engine bay while towing? What makes you guys think a 3.0TD would be any different? Of course this thing is going to run hot if you're towing in the mountains. Personally I am just THRILLED that Jeep gave us the diesel option at all! I love it.

I also think it's great that they've programmed it to protect itself so that unassuming owners can't kill the engine.

I probably tow bigger and heavier than anybody in this forum, granted not in the Rocky Mountains. I don't have any issue with my truck at all. It runs as cool as a cucumber even on the 100°F heat index kind of days. I still say it's not fair to pass judgement on the JTD for getting hot in the Rocky Mountains as we have seen ALL other brands of trucks do the same.

This has to be the BIGGEST fanboy statement I've seen. It is NOT ok that these diesel are derating empty. It is NOT ok that they derate without warning. Jeep has a major lawsuit coming when someone gets killed due to this.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

This has to be the BIGGEST fanboy statement I've seen. It is NOT ok that these diesel are derating empty. It is NOT ok that they derate without warning. Jeep has a major lawsuit coming when someone gets killed due to this.

My question is proving it. There seems to be no metric or pid I can find to indicate the engine is in a derate state….

The closest I can find it actual engine torque / driver demand torque.

I can log those, and during derate you do see actual not align.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Been creepin on this forum since before I bought my Ecodiesel Gladiator. Finally pulled the trigger and bought one (still got the paper plates on it). I have been enjoying the information sharing of this thread and others like it.

My question is: Is the overheating issue only on vehicles with mods? I see there are several threads about the overheating issue and browsed more than I care to share at work.

What I haven't found yet, was my COMPLETELY STOCK Gladiator is having overheating issues while towing. If someone is aware of a thread like that I would really appreciate a link, as I haven't seemed to come by it yet.

This is my first post, so feel free to roast me as you like. I never take offense to internet trolls and people that look down on you for asking questions.

Hey there. Yes Mine was 100% stock and had derates when towing, that's what started this thread.
Many of us have derated while NOT towing anything. It's common.

Try this, on a 100 degree day go for a hilly drive, then go to a fuel station and shut down the engine. Fill up then try to get up to 65 mph after having the engine off for 5 min. You will only be able to do 45 for a bit before the temps have lowered a bit, then before you know it you will feel a surge in power and away you go....

Few things I have learned.

1. If you tow, make sure your engine auto off feature is disabled.
2. Do not shut off the engine when refueling
3. Stay out of full throttle, and know you will be in the slow lane on hills, when you know the engine has much more...
4. The Taser Mini JL enables you to activate the Fans on high when towing, even at speed that lowers temps.
5. Some oil cooler options are being investigated.
6. Get a bluetooth OBD2 BLU+ dongle, and install the Car Scanner Pro app, and download my dashboards. You can monitor IAT's / EGT's. I try to keep mine below 1100 when towing my 3400lb trailer and it's hard to do on flat land, and impossible to do on hills..... High EGT's sustained are not good for diesels.

 

[IhaveQuestions]

Hey there. Yes Mine was 100% stock and had derates when towing, that's what started this thread.
Many of us have derated while NOT towing anything. It's common.

Try this, on a 100 degree day go for a hilly drive, then go to a fuel station and shut down the engine. Fill up then try to get up to 65 mph after having the engine off for 5 min. You will only be able to do 45 for a bit before the temps have lowered a bit, then before you know it you will feel a surge in power and away you go....

Few things I have learned.

1. If you tow, make sure your engine auto off feature is disabled.
2. Do not shut off the engine when refueling
3. Stay out of full throttle, and know you will be in the slow lane on hills, when you know the engine has much more...
4. The Taser Mini JL enables you to activate the Fans on high when towing, even at speed that lowers temps.
5. Some oil cooler options are being investigated.
6. Get a bluetooth OBD2 BLU+ dongle, and install the Car Scanner Pro app, and download my dashboards. You can monitor IAT's / EGT's. I try to keep mine below 1100 when towing my 3400lb trailer and it's hard to do on flat land, and impossible to do on hills..... High EGT's sustained are not good for diesels.

Thanks for the reply. I went back and reread the post and then deleted my question. Apparently not fast enough.

I may be able to add to this thread with real experience in a few weeks. Getting ready to go from Miami to WA while pulling a 6X12 cargo trailer maybe 2000 Lbs. My upgrades are as follows Mopar floor mats and window tinting. Hopefully, by limiting my speed (throttle) and watching the temps, I can limit the D rating issues.

I am hopeful for the prospects for future cooling products.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

Thanks for the reply. I went back and reread the post and then deleted my question. Apparently not fast enough.

I may be able to add to this thread with real experience in a few weeks. Getting ready to go from Miami to WA while pulling a 6X12 cargo trailer maybe 2000 Lbs. My upgrades are as follows Mopar floor mats and window tinting. Hopefully, by limiting my speed (throttle) and watching the temps, I can limit the D rating issues.

I am hopeful for the prospects for future cooling products.

I think the big thing to realize is that the derate, isn't hurting anything, it's just keeping stuff safe! so if a derate happens it's more of a saftey issue / annoyance.

The engine is not going to let you destroy it.

 

[JT4X4]

Hi all, hope a few folks get a chance to read this post.

I purchased a new diesel gladiator with high hopes that it would out perform my Toyota tacoma towing my 2900lb travel trailer (RPOD 179). My hopes were crushed today on its first voyage.

I live in Golden Colorado, and spent an hour this afternoon adjusting my equalizer hitch to sit perfectly on the Gladiator. I made sure the the weights were set perfect, the brake controller was installed correctly, and got everything in check.

Trip Info

Air Temp 86*F

RPOD 179
--Apx 50 sq/ft of frontal area
--2890 ish dry weight; no water loaded, just basic camping gear (call it 250 lbs)
--Equalizer 600lb weight distribution hitch.

It is a 2021 Gladiator Rubicon Diesel
--Empty Bed
--Bag of standard tools (maybe 20 lb)
--1 Human
--Factory setup, no added weight at all.
--Tires set at 39PSI all around (standard 33")

The route was from 6th Ave and Simms in Denver to Evergreen (up the I70 Hill)

I could barely maintain 45-50MPH, that was floored the entire way....
Engine temps were through the roof (IMO), and so were oil temps.
I could actively feel the ECU pull power from the engine as the temps got hot, and it got harder and harder to maintain speed.

Once I got to evergreen the engine quickly cooled off and then ran great.
It's clear to me that Jeep couldn't build sufficient cooling, and handled extended high loads by pulling power from the engine.

DO not buy the diesel gladiator to tow, my 4.0L Tacoma I traded in with lots of extra weight, bigger tires, a lift, tools, etc would do this same route with the same trailer and hitch at 55mph and the temp gauge wouldn't rise at all.

The only positive I see is slightly higher fuel mileage. (This same route on my tacoma would be 7mpg, the jeep did 13.5)
I don't think it makes sense to take it to the dealer, as it didn't overheat, and it didn't have any 'problems' per say; it is just weak.


I really wish I could just take my tacoma back.... pay a small fee for the few days of rental, and be on my way.

Again DO NOT buy the diesel thinking it will tow up hills better than your Tacoma. It will not.

You may want to check your Trailer Brake...hearing too much gain in some aftermarket trailer brakes keep the brake partially dragging and can put a lot of drag on your motor.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

You may want to check your Trailer Brake...hearing too much gain in some aftermarket trailer brakes keep the brake partially dragging and can put a lot of drag on your motor.

yup! Smart.

I disconnected it, and also repacked bearings on the trailer as that’s where my my head went first. It’s a smooth roller.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don't have a horse in this race - but am a naturally curious person and this is a really interesting "issue" for lack of a better word.

Obviously there are various alloys used in pistons. Also obvious is that temperature and melting points aren't the only points to consider. Metals become sort of plastic when they reach a certain point. When I had detonation trouble with one of my gas engines, I used hyper pistons which while not as tough as forged, they actually did better avoiding detonation. The forces of combustion can break things, or bend things.
One of the most common or popular alloys for pistons is 356 which has a reported melting point of 1280 F.
Just for kicks, for example, if you read 1100 f where the thermocouple is located giving you that temperature reading, how far downstream is that? Would it be hotter at the piston top?
Oil is the only thing cooling the head or top of that piston.
You are getting close to the melting point, the force or pressure of combustion shoving down on that hot piston -

Just tossing out numbers and thoughts - and a good reason to keep the OIL cool....

 

[houseofdiesel]

No matter what don't blame manufacturers for problems we are experiencing due to unrealistic restrictions being thrown at them by the anti-science anti-engineers at the EPA and CARB. They are doing the best they can to provide the products that we want and need. Rather than complain we need to do everything we can to work around and solve issues being created by these unrealistic parameters.

Attached is an article showing how much they have been repeatedly and endlessly forcing these regulations onto these platforms. If anyone can find specs for light duty please share. These are all educated discussions and facts we all should be having and aware of.

Note** That in 2001 diesels were only producing 25% more NOx than gas motors. Also note that per the EPA by the time that Bush was President we had already cut auto emissions by 99%. All regulations since have been to cut fractions of 1%. These regulations are no longer about clean air and just about Crony Capitalism and controlling the means of production. If you surrender we will no longer have the freedom to purchase and drive what we want. We will be slaves to the electrical grid, which is already stretched beyond it's means and abilities.

As far as soot it is good that it is being regulated but the fires and BBQ'ing is producing far more soot in our atmosphere than all the diesels combined by insane proportions. These regs are a handicap, don't let them win.

https://dieselnet.com/standards/us/hd.php

 

[houseofdiesel]

FYI was not full boost over that period. But there was definitely boost.


Remember 7% grade, 7 miles

here is with applied torque / speed. This shows I was nowhere near full throttle.


this shows from on-ramp to exit.

If I push my SuperDuty 6.7's over 20 Psi when on a grade loaded my temps will start to rise and fans will kick on. Each platform is different but there is definitely a threshold on each platform that temps and friction will start to rise faster than the cooling system can do it's job.

 

[Azriel62]

It will really depend on the weight you are towing, the ambient temps, and the load. For me, not in the mountains in Colorado or Utah, it's only happened on really hot days when going up and down hills. And even then, it's not every hill and has only happened 3 times for me.

My guess is if you spend most of your time in Florida, you will be fine. Even with hot weather, it does not get much flatter than that. It's an entirely different story if you add hot weather and hills. Others have reported the same issue towing light loads in mountains with this heat so YMMV.

But, as others have mentioned, there are other factors at play: how you drive, what wheels/tires/extra equipment you have, tire pressures, how much wind resistance your tow is causing, what trim you have, and so on.

My diesel is in D status still, but I'm trying to gain as much info as I can. Has anyone in the Arizona desert, where water freezes at 72F, having any overheating issues during the summer months without towing?

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