Jeep ceo…. Wants zero emission freedom brand

[TwelveGaugeSage]

How people like to correlate the history of cyclic global temperature fluctuations is amusing.

It's an easy out for those who would rather live in a world where scientists are lying to them and corporations and cousin Joe Bob on Facebook are the only ones who give it to them straight.

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[TheSolarWizard]

There’s not enough popcorn for this one

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There’s not enough popcorn for this one

Too bad I can't give two - a love and a laugh at the same time.
(and to Jason's post above you - why do ya think I call it fakebook? Gotta go, out to find my latest life hack! Oh, I thought his name was Jim Bob, my bad. )

 

[WILDHOBO]

All I'm saying is it is great to hate on everyone else when you have no ideas of your own...I tell you what. Since you and @ShadowsPapa are such experts, why not get together and design the next 0 emissions vehicle with unlimited range.

He wasn’t “hating”. He was clearly explaining why that’s not likely to work inline with a passenger vehicle exhaust system. And why it’s not similar to intake air filters, which allow gas to pass through, catching only particles. Your suggestion that we could capture the gas was interesting, but he doesn’t think feasible for that application. I agree for what it’s worth.

 

[WILDHOBO]

A century ago, Captain Scott and his team set out on a doomed race to be first to the South Pole. They failed in this quest - but that wasn't all they were doing in this mysterious ice-bound land. Among the fossils he collected was an ancient beech tree. Some would call this proof that this planet goes through warming and cooling cycles.

I say always be innovating. Let's also consider that nature (or what/whoever created us) is probably stronger than man.

Nature IS stronger than man. The problem is, it’s going to kill us in self defense, then will recover nicely after we’re gone. The earth will survive, but if we don’t make changes, it won’t be survivable for us.

 

[4x4Therror]

He wasn’t “hating”. He was clearly explaining why that’s not likely to work inline with a passenger vehicle exhaust system. And why it’s not similar to intake air filters, which allow gas to pass through, catching only particles. Your suggestion that we could capture the gas was interesting, but he doesn’t think feasible for that application. I agree for what it’s worth.

I can respect that. Fair enough

 

[ShadowsPapa]

He wasn’t “hating”. He was clearly explaining why that’s not likely to work inline with a passenger vehicle exhaust system. And why it’s not similar to intake air filters, which allow gas to pass through, catching only particles. Your suggestion that we could capture the gas was interesting, but he doesn’t think feasible for that application. I agree for what it’s worth.

Thanks, sir. You say things better than my ADHD mind does at times, ok, most of the time.
I've been in automotive for decades, and although not a chemist by any means, I've had my share of such courses and try to keep up with modern things (I have an interest in the world at large, technology, etc.)
So far the best capture device only lasts about 8 weeks, meaning the owner has to change out to a new capture device every 2 months or so, and it would cost at least 500/year.
There are other methods in the works for trucks, but it's very complex and costly - and in the end, electric will win out. Why pay so much and make a system so very complex? Last one I saw for trucks required storage tanks and stopping at stations to unload the captured CO2.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/27/capturing-co2-from-exhaust-pipes-is-a-bad-idea-that-wont-die/

 

[Spartan1]

Ok. I am going to throw my hat into this discussion 1.) If our electrical grid is, for the most part, powered by Nat. Gas, coal and god forbid, nuclear, are E-cars really “clean”? 2.) If California has rolling black outs now; how will their grid be able to handle the extra surge from a larger percentage of 40 million people driving more electric cars; especially after 2030 and 2035 when they stop selling gas cars all together. 3.) I live in NH and about 25,000 years ago there was an ice age and the ice was 2 miles thick from the current sea level straight up. 6,000 years later the ice was mostly gone. My question to all you Ivy league types is how did the ice melt? Think about it, the earth actually warmed up without the combustible engine or an evil Republican president. ?

 

[4x4Therror]

Thanks, sir. You say things better than my ADHD mind does at times, ok, most of the time.
I've been in automotive for decades, and although not a chemist by any means, I've had my share of such courses and try to keep up with modern things (I have an interest in the world at large, technology, etc.)
So far the best capture device only lasts about 8 weeks, meaning the owner has to change out to a new capture device every 2 months or so, and it would cost at least 500/year.
There are other methods in the works for trucks, but it's very complex and costly - and in the end, electric will win out. Why pay so much and make a system so very complex? Last one I saw for trucks required storage tanks and stopping at stations to unload the captured CO2.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/27/capturing-co2-from-exhaust-pipes-is-a-bad-idea-that-wont-die/

Technology changes constantly. There is a large group that thought we would never have personal computers in the house, let alone on our person at all times (cell phones).

https://news.mit.edu/2019/mit-engineers-develop-new-way-remove-carbon-dioxide-air-1025

 

[MyRight]

I think a lot of this zero emission talk is PR appeasement.
It gets tree huggers interested in your brand and keep politicians at bay.
We all know it's not truly zero emissions, it's simply transferring where the emissions are being emitted.
I don't think fuel cell vehicles will be viable for several years, if not decades to come. Long distance travel is certainly a huge challenge to overcome.
One would think that rather than trying to build the infrastructure around charging stations to handle the capacity for a majority of vehicles on fuel cells, put in a system of universal, quick replacement battery stations like we currently have for 5 gallon propane tanks. There would be no need to wait around for your vehicle to charge. You just pop in a fully charged fuel cell and you're off to the next swapping station.

 

[Sazabi19]

Ok. I am going to throw my hat into this discussion 1.) If our electrical grid is, for the most part, powered by Nat. Gas, coal and god forbid, nuclear, are E-cars really “clean”? 2.) If California has rolling black outs now; how will their grid be able to handle the extra surge from a larger percentage of 40 million people driving more electric cars; especially after 2030 and 2035 when they stop selling gas cars all together. 3.) I live in NH and about 25,000 years ago there was an ice age and the ice was 2 miles thick from the current sea level straight up. 6,000 years later the ice was mostly gone. My question to all you Ivy league types is how did the ice melt? Think about it, the earth actually warmed up without the combustible engine or an evil Republican president. ?

Shhh, you'll scare them, don't make them think, it's what the TV tells them to do that gives them comfort :P

On a serious note, making the air cleaner and whatnot is all great, but to think we're becoming "green" or you're "helping the planet" shows pure delusion. All you're doing is offloading your shit somewhere else. First world nations have been doing this for many, many years, you aren't special. I want a 4xe because it could save me money and fits my driving style, not because it will be cleaner, because it's not.

 

[Sazabi19]

I think a lot of this zero emission talk is PR appeasement.
It gets tree huggers interested in your brand and keep politicians at bay.
We all know it's not truly zero emissions, it's simply transferring where the emissions are being emitted.
I don't think fuel cell vehicles will be viable for several years, if not decades to come. Long distance travel is certainly a huge challenge to overcome.
One would think that rather than trying to build the infrastructure around charging stations to handle the capacity for a majority of vehicles on fuel cells, put in a system of universal, quick replacement battery stations like we currently have for 5 gallon propane tanks. There would be no need to wait around for your vehicle to charge. You just pop in a fully charged fuel cell and you're off to the next swapping station.

While I like that idea and it's been pushed before I don't see that happening for a while. We're going through the battery 'revolution' if you will. Manufacturers are trying to differentiate themselves with different techs and capacities, cooling solutions, and whathave you for anything to be standardized yet. I think once we get better battery techs then maybe we can get to something like this, but then they have to compete in other areas too, 1 step at a time.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Ok. I am going to throw my hat into this discussion 1.) If our electrical grid is, for the most part, powered by Nat. Gas, coal and god forbid, nuclear, are E-cars really “clean”? 2.) If California has rolling black outs now; how will their grid be able to handle the extra surge from a larger percentage of 40 million people driving more electric cars; especially after 2030 and 2035 when they stop selling gas cars all together. 3.) I live in NH and about 25,000 years ago there was an ice age and the ice was 2 miles thick from the current sea level straight up. 6,000 years later the ice was mostly gone. My question to all you Ivy league types is how did the ice melt? Think about it, the earth actually warmed up without the combustible engine or an evil Republican president. ?

Very true that calling EV’s perfectly green or clean when much of the power is from fossil fuels is false. However, it’s still cleaner than the ICE. Also, as solar and wind turbines increase the percentage of power gained without fossil fuels, it will get even better.

As far as the argument that this is a normal warming cycle, I’d encourage you to google the Exit Glacier in Seward, Alaska. There is an easily viewed chart that shows how far it has receded, and during what timelines. It was receding at a very slow and even pace until CFC’s started to be used in the mid 20th century. The pace of exponential loss accelerated more rapidly than anytime in recorded history from that point on. It’s an easy to see direct correlation of how our pollution has affected climate change. The only conspiracy theories are those that try to convince us it’s not something we’ve caused. We have, and we continue to, out of laziness and complacency. Let’s be better.

 

[Rockabillyroy]

2.) If California has rolling black outs now; how will their grid be able to handle the extra surge from a larger percentage of 40 million people driving more electric cars; especially after 2030 and 2035 when they stop selling gas cars all together.

Might depend on where they get their electricity from. I remember years back when enron gamed the people causing rolling blackouts.

That being said, in this part of the SFV, we never have rolling blackouts. We have our own power department separate from socal.

 

[TwelveGaugeSage]

Where are we currently in the natural cycle (Milankovitch cycle)? The warmest point of the last cycle was around 10,000 years ago, at the peak of the Holocene. Since then, there has been an overall cooling trend, consistent with a continuation of the natural cycle, and this cooling would continue for thousands of years into the future if all else remained the same. But since 1750 however, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has deviated from the natural cycle. Instead of decreasing, it has increased because of the fossil-fuel burning. Methane and nitrous oxide have also increased unnaturally because of agricultural practices and other factors. The world has also warmed unnaturally. We are now deviating from the natural cycle.

Source: http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/natural-cycle

By all means, check out the source. It has charts, and videos and many other explanations that are easy for lay persons to understand. Of course, this requires you to believe scientists and not cousin Jim Bob.

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