2022 model year M/T issues (clutch burnout smell and stall)

[MyJeepShawn]

Never even thought of dropping it in 4 to back up. I just make sure I park the direction that requires no backing up ? I never had any problems with my TJ, XJ or JK (all MT) in reverse. Oh well. If that’s my only complaint….I’ve got it pretty good!

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[DrJeep]

MY22 w/6MT here and no problems tackling the hill at the bottom of my driveway. HOWEVER…. Backing up, up a hill, that’s a different story. I’ve been driving MT vehicles for 22 years and this is the first one I stall just about every other time. For what it’s worth, I’m still on stock sport tires.

Thanks for your feedback. Well, this is unacceptable, you should be able to climb either way. From your profile picture, I can't say for sure if your driveway is steep enough or not. Here is a picture of my driveway that is between 15 to 18 degrees. So, if you fight stalling with more throttle, does the clutch smell like burnout? mine did smell in either case since day 1; heading up or backing up.

 

[NachoRuby]

Never even thought of dropping it in 4 to back up. I just make sure I park the direction that requires no backing up ? I never had any problems with my TJ, XJ or JK (all MT) in reverse. Oh well. If that’s my only complaint….I’ve got it pretty good!

Haha I'm kind of in the hills, so parking on a hill is inevitable out here. But yes, our JK is fine in reverse too. So was our TJ. But, It seems to be something that a lot of manuals have been doing for like the past 6-7 years. I don't know why. Really long reverse gearing, as if we need to back up at 25 mph!

 

[NachoRuby]

Thanks for your feedback. Well, this is unacceptable, you should be able to climb either way. From your profile picture, I can't say for sure if your driveway is steep enough or not. Here is a picture of my driveway that is between 15 to 18 degrees. So, if you fight stalling with more throttle, does the clutch smell like burnout? mine did smell in either case since day 1; heading up or backing up.

View attachment 219111

Don't fight stalling with more throttle. Clutch in and try again. Use your momentum. At the first hint of stall, clutch in, not more throttle.

 

[DrJeep]

UPDATE:

I just spoke with the service department manager. He said this clutch has been overheated and needs to be completely replaced (very politely blaming it on me for overheating). Also, saying that the warranty is 12k miles for a clutch, and they will cover it this time. Feel beyond lucky they cover it for a brand new car costing $55,000!!!

I, once again, explained that the issue was there from the beginning, and I never pushed the truck too hard, but your technician did smoke the hell out of it 20 times in the second gear that might have been the cherry on top as many of you guys also suggested. He said the technician was just trying to emulate the concern you described. DO NOT let them do this if you ever take your car to a dealership, because they can simply blame everything on you. I drove my Jeep very gently because my assumption was to keep it for a long time. Also, never saw an "overheat" message on my cluster display.

The moral of the story: I need to wait at least two more weeks (already one week passed) for the parts to arrive. I did ask him after you get it fixed, we can go to my house (10 mins away) and attempt climbing my driveway, and if it does not climb with ease and without smell, I will sell the truck. I will be back here in two weeks for an update potentially having the truck sold.

 

[81Mojave]

As others have stated I find my 21 Mojave likes a little foreplay when trying to reverse up a hill from a start. I don’t need to rev it just more feathering than any other MT I have driven. But it’s is MUCH lighter, and way more enjoyable if you hit traffic.
I did stall a few times the first week (first month in reverse) but I have not smoked the clutch yet.
I’m guessing OP got a oddball bad one and I’m glad they are replacing it. It would irritate me for sure BTW.

 

[hjdca]

3.73 gears with 35" tires exacerbates the situation. You have less much less room for error. As a comparison, for my manual tranny JTR, I am running 5:13s with 37" tires, almost 40K miles, many off road trips, two Jeep "Badge of Honor' trails I have my clutch completely out within 2 seconds in all circumstances. I never have a clutch smell. I use the gas and brake to modulate the speed. These lower gears (5:13s) give you tons of torque multiplication and completely change the game vs. 3:73s. To give you an example, with my JTR and the 4:1 transfer case, and the 5:13 gears --- in granny gear - 4WD, 1st gear; the truck just pulls itself along. You let the clutch out in less than a second, and while rock crawling, you use the brake to slow down to idle rpm, and you let off, and the torque will rise the rpm, and the truck continues moving. On the street, in traffic, I let the truck crawl in 1st gear, and when it feels like it is going to buck, I lightly tap the gas pedal quickly... this dribbles the gas in and lets you go even slower without bucking.

Here is an exaggerated example of me doing the boulder/rock gardens with my truck at the badge of honor trail in Big Bear - Holcomb Creek Trail. In both these runs, I do not use the clutch at all. In fact, I only use the clutch once in the first run, when you see me stop at the big boulder. On the second run, you will see me hit the brakes at the end to slow down coming off a rock, but, I am still not clutching, and when I let off the brake, the truck goes back to its granny gear speed. I have the rear lockers on and the front lockers off, 12 psi in the Kevlars with Method bead grip rims, and with the momentum of the manual, no front lockers are required and I can turn and place the tires much easier. In this situation, you can even shine against the automatics in rock crawling... Note: this is the second time I do this trail, and I already knew my line and I had an outstanding spotter; so, I am not saying you can do this your first time... Take your time, stop, and learn. It is fun to get better at it. In addition, you will notice that the tractor momentum you get from a manual in granny gear without clutching really helps with the grip on the rocks. Note2: Also, when I do have to stop on a rock, I use the Tazer "rock crawl" button on my steering wheel to lock all 4 brakes while I work the clutch.

 

[DrJeep]

UPDATE:

I picked up my truck last week after 20 days. It is safe to say it has been fixed and is a lot better. No more intense smell. I am able to climb up and back up my steep driveway riding the clutch and gas less than 2300 RPM (no hill-assist and it's noted that I am quite skillful with M/T, two of my friends could not make it without stalling a few times), but it still does not do it easily as you would expect a Jeep would (oh well, 35s and 3.73). Before fixing it, it was almost impossible as outlined before. Here is my most unbiased evaluation:

----> Am I happy now?
Not really, it is still a weak point for M/T. It also did hurt my feelings tbh as I did not expect this to happen.
----> Do I regret getting a Manual transmission?
Yes, I do. Don't buy manuals if you expect a mountain goat. It is very fun to drive in town, but for extreme conditions and offroading, you need lower gearing (i.e., 4.88/5.13 or Rubicon TC for 4low) and/or a better clutch.
----> Am I going to sell my brand new truck?
No, I really love my truck, and I can live with it (fingers crossed) for now.
----> What is next?
Regearing from 3.77 to 4.88 or 5.13 in the future and perhaps replacing the clutch to something with a heavier flywheel and deeper engagement point.

Hope this helps. Thanks, everyone for your support and comments.

 

[NachoRuby]

----> Am I happy now?
Not really, it is still a weak point for M/T. It also did hurt my feelings tbh as I did not expect this to happen.
----> Do I regret getting a Manual transmission?
Yes, I do. Don't buy manuals if you expect a mountain goat. It is very fun to drive in town, but for extreme conditions and offroading, you need lower gearing (i.e., 4.88/5.13 or Rubicon TC for 4low) and/or a better clutch.
----> Am I going to sell my brand new truck?
No, I really love my truck, and I can live with it (fingers crossed) for now.
----> What is next?
Regearing from 3.77 to 4.88 or 5.13 in the future and perhaps replacing the clutch to something with a heavier flywheel and deeper engagement point.

Have you used 4L off road with your 3.73s yet? Mine is a Rubicon, meaning 4.1 + 4:1 low range, but I think you'll find that in low range, it climbs quite nicely off-road, taking off in 2nd gear in most cases, except at very steep angles, where 1st (in low range) will climb anything and everything you ask of it, with extreme ease, yes, like the proverbial mountain goat. Now I don't know what 3.73 + 2.72:1 would mean offroad, because I don't have that combo, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised. It'll go over anything you ask of it. But you must use low range. That's not a weakness, that's why you have low range.

As some of us have said, we've tackled badge of honor trails without special difficulty in the MT. You do have to use low range more on the manual, but that should be expected. We don't have a torque converter, of course. Try some trails in 4LOW before you knock it too much. But yes, on 35s at 3.73 you will likely beg for a regear with the MT, just for hill climbs on the highway, if nothing else. Offroad, low range will give you very good climbing ability.

While your stalling issue was not normal, and was definitely indicative of a defective part, you absolutely have to expect that going from a 31" tire to a 35" tire on stock gears will cause a performance hit, meaning things won't be as easy. It's going to be heavy and slow and undergeared now. It shouldn't burn your clutch up every time you take off like before, but it's going to be slow, and it's not going to accelerate like stock. It's going to basically feel like you have a bunch of weight in your bed all the time.

Even with my 4.1 gearing, my current 35 inch tires (from stock 33 inch) are as large as I'd go without regearing, because torque below 3500 is pretty anemic on these engines, and it could use the extra multiplication for on road climbs. Off road, however, put her in low range and forget it, even with stock gears. It'll climb things I'd never even want to attempt. I'd be worried about flipping before I worry about climbing ability in low range.

18000 miles so far here, and no regrets with the manual whatsoever. Fun on and off road. Fun all the time, except when it's time to fill up the fuel tank. Yes, a stronger clutch would be nice, but use low range, and it's a great truck off road.

 

[DrJeep]

Recently, I have been hearing a clunk sound when I change the gears as soon as the clutch is engaged. It happens between every two gears whether it is 1 to 2 or 3 to 4, 3 to 2, etc. Going to a different dealership tomorrow morning. Here we go! 2nd visit in two months! cheers to the manual transmission ?

The sound is a new issue. The previous issues: clutch smell and not being able to climb have been "almost" resolved. The truck has 1900 miles on it. My truck may not perform too well but it sure looks good ?

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've driven manual transmissions since I first started with my own car in the early 1970s.
I've also replaced a few clutches, in my own and as a mechanic for years.
I have never smelled any hot burning smell. As long as the flywheel and pressure plate were clean, never had a smell. The most recent clutch was my SX4 - resurfaced flywheel, all new clutch parts, no smell.
Unless these have some weird "friction material", there shouldn't be a smell.

As for the JT - with the gearing these have I'd only run 35s on 3.73 with an automatic.
As far as reverse, my observation is that reverse has been too damned high in transmissions since the 1980s. I don't get why they think you want to hit 80 mph in reverse. I can't even back my car up the driveway, I usually turn around and drive out. It's just dumb to have such a high reverse.
My opinion, of course! And worth every penny you paid.

 

[Deleted member 30519]

MY22 w/6MT here and no problems tackling the hill at the bottom of my driveway. HOWEVER…. Backing up, up a hill, that’s a different story. I’ve been driving MT vehicles for 22 years and this is the first one I stall just about every other time. For what it’s worth, I’m still on stock sport tires.

Backing up on a hill isn't much better even with 5.13 gears. Its better but I was hoping for more. I back up and park every night on a steep hill on a gravel driveway and it never gets easier. The only time I like it is when the ground is full snow and I back up in 4 lo.

 

[DrJeep]

Recently, I have been hearing a clunk sound when I change the gears as soon as the clutch is engaged. It happens between every two gears whether it is 1 to 2 or 3 to 4, 3 to 2, etc. Going to a different dealership tomorrow morning. Here we go! 2nd visit in two months! cheers to the manual transmission ?

The sound is a new issue. The previous issues: clutch smell and not being able to climb have been "almost" resolved. The truck has 1900 miles on it. My truck may not perform too well but it sure looks good ?

They said the clunk sound is normal and should not be an issue. After I told them the story of my truck not performing well on hills, the technician drove the car down a hill (15 degrees) and tried to back up and white smoke came off the transmission while revving up less than 3000 RPM and overheat message showed up for the first time ever (see below), and I immediately asked him to stop the torture. Then, they let me drive a stock Rubicon with M/T (with 30k miles on it) on the same hill, and it did move without any smokes or smell despite not being easy. They say that my clutch has not broken into yet and also I can't expect much from it with the oversized tires. They suggested regearing the truck for about $3000.

I also confirmed that the Rubicon JT also made the clunk sound similar to my vehicle when you lift up your foot a bit faster as you change gears. I am stuck with it and regearing seems like the only solution. Perhaps, I am going to start a thread to see if anyone has ever attempted to covert an M/T to Automatic and how much that would cost. It may sound crazy but if it is going to cost less than 6-7k, it may not be a bad idea. I'd lose more money if I sell my truck and order a new one with the same options and A/T.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They said the clunk sound is normal and should not be an issue. After I told them the story of my truck not performing well on hills, the technician drove the car down a hill (15 degrees) and tried to back up and white smoke came off the transmission while revving up less than 3000 RPM and overheat message showed up for the first time ever (see below), and I immediately asked him to stop the torture. Then, they let me drive a stock Rubicon with M/T (with 30k miles on it) on the same hill, and it did move without any smokes or smell despite not being easy. They say that my clutch has not broken into yet and also I can't expect much from it with the oversized tires. They suggested regearing the truck for about $3000.

I also confirmed that the Rubicon JT also made the clunk sound similar to my vehicle when you lift up your foot a bit faster as you change gears. I am stuck with it and regearing seems like the only solution. Perhaps, I am going to start a thread to see if anyone has ever attempted to covert an M/T to Automatic and how much that would cost. It may sound crazy but if it is going to cost less than 6-7k, it may not be a bad idea. I'd lose more money if I sell my truck and order a new one with the same options and A/T.

Interesting idea, but wasn't there a forum member who decided to try to add the newer SelecTrac auto/full time transfer case and found out - don't go there?
Wiring harnesses, TCU and programming, how does the transfer case mount to the transmission, are there differences? (likely not, but I've not taken one of these apart)
You'll have to go through the PCM and see what's different.
On the other hand - compared to the cost of trading............

 

[NachoRuby]

Rather than convert it, it's probably easier and cheaper to sell it or trade it. It sounds like it's really not working out for you, for whatever reason. It can't be cheaper to convert it over than to sell it. The transmission alone will cost more than you'd lose. Then you'd need a new pcm and new TCM. No telling what else.

You could also regear, or replace the clutch with an aftermarket unit. Maybe going down to 33s would be the cheapest option though?

I'm not sure what you're expecting on hills, since you said the Rubicon was difficult too, but a Rubicon has no trouble whatsoever starting on hills or mountains, even with 35s, although reverse is geared high. I'm in Appalachia, so hills abound. No problems. 35s on 3.73s will be very slow (even with the automatic), but you really should not have any other issues, and no smoke. You really should have at least 4.1s, if not 4.56s to run 35s. The clutch isn't amazing, but it's certainly not undrivable.

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