Non Rubicon Ecodiesel Lift - why if no weight difference.

[Giersz]

I searched this forum to gain info about lift for ma EcoDiesel Overland.

“You need a Diesel lift for Diesel truck. Gas lift will be crap.”

This is basically what you get here and also form many youtubers that claim that they have experience.

I searched for a full specs of Gladiator to see what is the real weight difference.
Basically 3.0 EcoDiesel Auto is heavier by 365lbs than the same JT 3.6 Auto.

I was wondering what is weight distribution for front and rear and also with different trim levels. Not only engine is heavier. There is bigger transmission (8HP75 vs 850RE) that is installed between wheels so affects both wheels, but Non Rubicon vs Rubicon JT got a lot of differences



Most people claim that the problem is with front so let’s take a closer look.

Full JT Gladiator info is here:

From this sheet you can see that JT Overland 3.0 weight (5041lbs) is smaller than 3.6 Rubicon (5072lbs)On front wheels it is 2756lbs. Rubicon 3.6 auto with lighter engine but heavier front sway bar is 2688 lbs.
It is only 68lbs difference. If you calculate it without wheels or with the same wheels it may change but probably not more than another 20lbs.

If you compare Rubicon with steel bumper to an Overland with standard or aluminium bumper the difference will be more like 40lbs.

Also I checked for a spring rates – for Teraflex it is 140lbs/inch or Clayton is 180lbs/inch – if 40 lbs is evenly distributed over 2 springs it will be 20lbs for each spring. It will go down by 20/140= 1/7 inch so nearly nothing.

So if a lift is ok for gas Rubicon than it is also correct for non-Rubicon Diesel that is nearly the same weight.

I am not sure what makes this difference but front sway bar is much heavier in Rubicon, also locker probalby adds something. Maybe some other suspension components but I think Rubicon aluminium body shocks should be nearly the same weight as other steel body shocks. I know that every weight difference in what you change doing lift will affect this calculation. I do not know exactly what is the difference in front Rubicon sway bar vs sport sway bar but probably this is the heaviest part in front of the Rubicon. Maybe also steel rock sliders?
I do not understand why RUbicon 3.6 vs Sport 3.6 is that much weight different in for rear.
Rocksliders are 95 lbs for both


Rubicon EcoDiesel vs Rubicon 3.6 is 199 lbs difference on front wheels so it will be nearly an inch down if I am calculating it correctly.
Rubicon 3.6 vs sport 3.6 S max Tow is 191 lbs (+difference in wheels) – nobody got any problem with lift kits here and the difference is nearly the same as EcoDiesel vs 3.6
Rubicon 3.6 vs Overland 3.6 is 210 lbs in difference (+difference in wheels) – nobody got any problem with lift kits here and the difference is bigger that with Ecodiesel.

Please correct me if my calculations are wrong or maybe I just miss something.
If it is just weight than I can understand that if a lift is good for 3.6 Rubicon it should be nearly the same for Overland/Sport Diesel.

Sponsored

 

[j.o.y.ride]

Complaints of diesels bottoming out the front are not unusual.

Also, even if those weights are correct, you have to remember that the weight is only static while still. Dynamic weight is what really matters.

I also find it hard to believe the overland is that far away from the Rubicon gas:gas.

 

[AjMac]

I dont know if it really matters, just go with quality. Think about allllll the stuff you see on these overlanding rigs with 3.6's... Refrigerators, bed racks, roof racks, roof top tents, there are people heavier than you driving these jeeps too, and somethings have multiple passengers weighing hundreds of pounds.

I myself went with the MC with HD springs, just for a little extra hmrph. I may bust a spring...but so do people in 3.6's, so Ill tackle that if it happens.

 

[Giersz]

Complaints of diesels bottoming out the front are not unusual.

Also, even if those weights are correct, you have to remember that the weight is only static while still. Dynamic weight is what really matters.

I also find it hard to believe the overland is that far away from the Rubicon gas:gas.

Diesel is bottiming becausevery limited uptravel. Bumpstop tower on front suspension is like 1.5inch longer. This means that you have that much less suspension uptravel. Stock Diesel got crappt uptravel. Also if you put larger tires and long bumpstops it will not help. Most lift manuals are for gas models and do not calculate this difference. If you put 2.5” lift and 3” bumpstop for 37s you will limit uptravel even more.

full Keep Gladiator 2021 product info here:

Jeep Gladiator 2021 product info

 

[CerOf]

Keep in mind, lockers and bigger tires are not being supported by the springs.

when you hit a bump, the extra weight of the Diesel engine and associated components compresses the front end. Though it might only be a 150 to 200 what ever pounds, the physics of it amplify the force.

it’s kinda like, would you rather get tackled by a 265lb linebacker or a 180lbs free safety if they are both running 6mph at you?

the lighter weight fs will have less force.

 

[Giersz]

Keep in mind, lockers and bigger tires are not being supported by the springs.

when you hit a bump, the extra weight of the Diesel engine and associated components compresses the front end. Though it might only be a 150 to 200 what ever pounds, the physics of it amplify the force.

it’s kinda like, would you rather get tackled by a 265lb linebacker or a 180lbs free safety if they are both running 6mph at you?

the lighter weight fs will have less force.

I agree - that is why I started this thread.
Differrnc is like 200 lbs for stock JT

Rubicon have heavier wheels and locker that do not affect suspension but makes the difference even bigger.
It should be not much - 20 lbs?

Somebody know the difference in wheel weight?

Rubicon also have electo-motorized swaybar (no idea of weight) and steel rock sliders.(95 lbs that shoud affect both front and rear)

This is why in the infosheet it is only 68lbs difference.

This leads to idea that stock Diesel overland/Sport will be the same front weight as Rubicon with steel bumper and winch (both probably around 150lbs).
Why Gas lift is ok for equipped 3.6 and not ok for stock or lightly built Diesel?

If you put ligt components for Diesel you will be very similar in weight.
For example:
MP Concepts Aluminium Bumper is 31lbs and mopar steel is 83lbs
Warn Evo 12s winch is 73lbs and Badlands APEX 12000 is 86 (both synthetic rope)
You can save 60 lbs by adding lighter equipment.

If I am right than the front end weight of a loaded gas rubicon for rock crawling (steel bumper, heavy wich, a lot of underbody protection) will be very similar to Diesel overland build for overlanding (stock side steps, light bumper, light winch, no need for full steel underbody protection).

 

[Shawnu22]

Not sure if this helps but I took my 2022 JTSD to the scale the day I bought it. This is a full tank of fuel and nothing in it, I don't have any options that would add any additional weight to my Sport S either.

 

[Dougstdig]

Not sure of the weight difference, but the diesel Rubi’s have iron knuckles vs aluminum. Being un-sprung weight this would be part of the rebound issue.

 

[Giersz]

Not sure if this helps but I took my 2022 JTSD to the scale the day I bought it. This is a full tank of fuel and nothing in it, I don't have any options that would add any additional weight to my Sport S either.

This is nearly 100 lbs more than product info on each axle. Maybe because of full tank.

 

[Giersz]

Not sure of the weight difference, but the diesel Rubi’s have iron knuckles vs aluminum. Being un-sprung weight this would be part of the rebound issue.

All Diesels have wide axle with cast iron knuckles. Same is with Overland.

 

[NachoRuby]

All Diesels have wide axle with cast iron knuckles. Same is with Overland.

Where did you see that? The spec sheet lists Overlands and non-rubicon diesels as having standard width axles.

 

[CerOf]

I know the mopar 2” front coils for a diesel lift are within 1/2” in length to stock coils. This tells me the really just upped the spring rate to gain the lift in front.

 

[Giersz]

Where did you see that? The spec sheet lists Overlands and non-rubicon diesels as having standard width axles.

I have 2021 Overland Diesel with wide axles. Double chrcked this and also VIN decoded spec sheet claim that i have wide axles.
Some people on this forum also claim that they have wide axle in every Diesel.

 

[CivilJeep]

Just installed the Mopar kit on my Overland diesel yesterday. I noticed that the front shocks specifically name that they are for the JT diesel. I don't know what the differences are, of any, but thought that was interesting.

 

[Giersz]

Just installed the Mopar kit on my Overland diesel yesterday. I noticed that the front shocks specifically name that they are for the JT diesel. I don't know what the differences are, of any, but thought that was interesting.

This is interesting. I was sure that only springs are different.

Sponsored