2023 JT Willys Aftermarket “Max Tow Package”

[Wheelin98TJ]

Makes me think of a sub that was "rated" down to 4000m and imploded at 3500m.

Playing at the top end or max of any rating is a recipe for disaster.

Finally, before the epic failure happens........set up a slush fund and label it "For DOT fines" DOT never lets off w/o at least $1000 in fines.......and make you drop the trailer and have it towed at your expense.

Does DOT fine noncommercial drivers?

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[ShadowsPapa]

I'm sure many of the people in some of these videos felt "I know what I'm doing" and "my truck can handle it fine" and "Iv'e done this a million times" and "I know how to tow going fast, I'm fine"










Most of these don't mention tow capacity, speed, weight, but they should as that's what's behind many of the disasters you can find on youtube.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Does DOT fine noncommercial drivers?

From what I've seen, enforcement varies with states. Some don't give a damn, others will see you struggling or drifting through stop signs because of excessive weight and so on - and nab you.
It's inconsistent.
A friend was hauling dogs - HIS OWN - and got pulled over for overweight. He had to prove he wasn't hauling for anyone else and had to have his rig weighed. It was a battle that he won - but at what cost?
The bigger issues is dopes that think it's ok, end up killing someone else and still don't get it "but I was still under my capacity by 1 pound".
That's the type I'd like to see jailed for negligent homicide.

 

[Hootbro]

Why does your avatar remind me of Ringo, or even Jeff Lynne?

Or maybe Frank Fritz's brother.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauché

 

[Goldrush72]

Not that I disagree with the 80% load rule everyone seems glued to but. If the manufacturer says 6000 pounds in the specs and someone has an accident causing who knows what hauling 5995 pounds the manufacturer would be blameless. My logic would tell me that the manufacturer is already allowing for the 80% to cover their butts. Just thinkin like a manufacturer with lots of lawyers covering myself from billboard attorneys looking to make a buck.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauché

Ah, likely the case that spawned the SVU episode with a similar situation.

 

[Minty JL]

Does DOT fine noncommercial drivers?

Both DOT and State Police can.... they do here in Maryland

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not that I disagree with the 80% load rule everyone seems glued to but. If the manufacturer says 6000 pounds in the specs and someone has an accident causing who knows what hauling 5995 pounds the manufacturer would be blameless. My logic would tell me that the manufacturer is already allowing for the 80% to cover their butts. Just thinkin like a manufacturer with lots of lawyers covering myself from billboard attorneys looking to make a buck.

Not everyone, but a fair number in the RV forums and groups. I subscribe more to 90% but then I am a bit more "aware" also. I like padding.
No, engineers aren't taking 80% into account. They are actually doing the opposite - I already pointed out what Ford was doing to get their numbers up by cheating. Towing and payload numbers sell. No way a company is saying 6,000 when they could really do 7500. Nope, ain't gonna happen. They will give it all they can or else lose customers to a company that claims 50 pounds more.

 

[Minty JL]

From what I've seen, enforcement varies with states. Some don't give a damn, others will see you struggling or drifting through stop signs because of excessive weight and so on - and nab you.
It's inconsistent.
A friend was hauling dogs - HIS OWN - and got pulled over for overweight. He had to prove he wasn't hauling for anyone else and had to have his rig weighed. It was a battle that he won - but at what cost?
The bigger issues is dopes that think it's ok, end up killing someone else and still don't get it "but I was still under my capacity by 1 pound".
That's the type I'd like to see jailed for negligent homicide.

Oh and lets not forget in the event of an accident the insurance companies investigations determine you were overloaded/hauling guess what they're going to do.......claim denied

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

Both DOT and State Police can.... they do here in Maryland

The DOT in Michigan doesn't. I don't even slow down for them anymore.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not that I disagree with the 80% load rule everyone seems glued to but. If the manufacturer says 6000 pounds in the specs and someone has an accident causing who knows what hauling 5995 pounds the manufacturer would be blameless. My logic would tell me that the manufacturer is already allowing for the 80% to cover their butts. Just thinkin like a manufacturer with lots of lawyers covering myself from billboard attorneys looking to make a buck.

Here's a great demo of how my rig differs from your campers - height matters. Your camper has a lot more weight higher than my car hauler loaded with car. So I'm far far less likely to have any sway or similar issues and yet a camper loaded in a similar way with a freezer packed of stuff, the cupboards full of dishes, bedding or clothes in over-head storage bins up high. So you have it well balanced, perhaps 10% rule, but since it's high - you may experience sway while I will not.
This is one reason Aluma says I don't need sway control and don't need WDH on my rig - it's not going to be a problem. But a travel trailer/camper with the weight in similar positions, but higher, it's a problem because it's now swinging as if from the top of a tree with greater leverage over the trailer's base than the same weight on the floor of the camper.
So load it LOW. Unload those cupboards, sit stuff on the floor.

(they also show haw applying trailer brakes ONLY can help pull out of sway - that's why you want that trailer brake button CLOSE at hand!)



The effect of WEIGHT on stability - the heavier the load, the slower you must go. They were figuring 85% of the tow vehicle weight in the one test. Stable at reasonable speeds, not so much going faster or with more weight.




I go back to what i've said over and over and over in the past couple of years! It's NOT about springs, its not about gear ratio and you can't build your truck and increase anything.
Heck, even parking brakes are part of the test - how it feels, how sway can be controlled and more. People need to get out of the 1960s when "I put bigger springs under so now i can tow more" thinking.
It's a whole package - center of gravity, steering/handling, engine load, heat, BRAKING in emergencies and much much more. you can't change your gear ratio and add heavier springs (which MAY actually make your truck WORSE in some situations as heavy springs can't always keep the tires on the ground for braking)

Just buy the right damned truck and get over building one.





And his great point on not needing 10% tongue weight in every case Depends on the trailer and load. But people like rules so there ya go. One source says it depends on trailer length, design, height and the total trailer weight itself. Different percentages for different trailer weights.

 

[Minty JL]

Great videos

I see at least have a dozen accidents like this a year on 95......its always ugly.

Risk vs. reward.....

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've towed a lot of stuff over the years with a number of trucks and every one of them had a different personality but still, there are general rules to follow for each of them.
I've never had sway, never had a breakdown.
My first flatbed trailer was a 3,000 + pound home-made rig I traded for from a farm equipment scalper. He hauled tractors and he showed me a picture where he had 3 disks stacked up on top of the trailer hauling the to his place for sale. You needed a stout truck just to hook the trailer up it was so heavy. NO BRAKES because it was exempt as "farm equipment". I hauled my F20, an IH 656 utility tractor with loader and other stuff on it.
Took two of us to mount my winch on it as the winch was so heavy. A friend called it a rail car on tires. The ramps were almost 100 pounds each, channel iron. We moved the axles back after I traded for it because it was too well balanced - not enough weight up front.
Note the truck - you base your tow vehicle on what you need to tow and base what you want to tow on your tow vehicle.
Note the stupidity of the single safety chain.

I-beam frame, maybe it started like as a mobile home chassis?

North of Twin Cities picking up my 2nd Javelin on that beast of a trailer - in the winter.

This was my second flatbed - axles back stupid far IMO, crazy tongue weight, had to keep the car so far back the rear wheels were almost on the beaver tail if the car was longer than a sub-compact. But it was a nice trailer. Just heavy, too heavy for a JT so I traded it for my Aluma, on the advice of my wife LOL.

 

[ross neill]

I have a Max Tow and would never ever tow the 7650 allowed nor would I tow the GD you mentioned. It is not safe. You are going to end up with the tail wagging the dog as we say or it will push you right down a hill burning out the brakes. Also you would be starting with a tongue of 581 dry. You will blow right past max I guarantee it once you load the trailer, add batteries and propane. Get a different truck of you want that trailer. Also, Remember there is just not how much you can tow but how much you can stop.

Also there is GCWR and tongue. The Max Tow allows a GCWR of 12800 but of you take the Glad to 6250 GVWR you can only tow 6550 and max out. Etc etc etc. Towing 7800 just isn’t safe.

I currently have a Grand Design Imagine AIM (20 feet single axle) travel trailer which has a 4700 GVWR as well as a WDH/sway hitch and I would never tow more than that even with my Max Tow.

I had a break controller installed to tow my single axle trailer

 

[Zachanadandy]

Oh and lets not forget in the event of an accident the insurance companies investigations determine you were overloaded/hauling guess what they're going to do.......claim denied

I'd like to see even 1 example of this ever happening. There would have to be a specific exclusion in your policy, and I know for a fact there isn't in mine. They can't deny your claim for doing something stupid or illegal. That's literally the cause of nearly every accident. Do you really want people to believe that they can get hammered, drive 150mph, kill a family of innocent people and be covered but if they put a few hundred pounds too much in their trailer the insurance company has an out?

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