3.6 Cam Self destruction

[DC3]

Here is the only video I have where you can hear it clearly.

It would be good to do an oil analysis after the first flush after the new cams are installed. That's how mine sounded when I replaced the cams the first time. Then it was quiet but the ticking returned after about a few thousand miles. Then the bank 1 intake cam was replaced again. The ticking didn't completely go away but did get louder with miles. with 1k miles on the new cam, there is no visible wear.

My new motor is whisper quiet; all I hear is the supercharger. how nice it is.

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[Brahmajoe]

It would be good to do an oil analysis after the first flush after the new cams are installed. That's how mine sounded when I replaced the cams the first time. Then it was quiet but the ticking returned after about a few thousand miles. Then the bank 1 intake cam was replaced again. The ticking didn't completely go away but did get louder with miles. with 1k miles on the new cam, there is no visible wear.

My new motor is whisper quiet; all I hear is the supercharger. how nice it is.

But that clanking noise would happen when you have it throttle

 

[seven30]

My engine started making a slight tick at 8k miles. Took it in for oil change at 10k for oil change and diagnosis. They said they couldn't hear anything and didn't do any tear down.

Took it in to a different dealer at 13k as the ticking was getting louder. They called to say I need four new cams and 8 followers. Now I am worried about the longevity of this engine. Hopefully the new cams and followers will be okay but seriously wondering what caused the issue in the first place and it seems like many of these engines that chew up the cams in the first place have it happen again.

(This is my second Mojave with the 3.6 and I also had a JK with a 3.6. Neither of the other two had any issues other than an oil pressure sender in the JK which was a known issue)

This is why I save every filter. If something starts to break down it will be catching some of the particles. Most of the dealers drain oil into a big drum, not a pan, so they are not likely to spot the onset of a problem.

Id want to see the oil in a pan and check recesses in the filter pleats. Probably get an oil analysis to see if bearing material is present too.

 

[DAVECS2]

If you change your cams and followers, you should change out the VVL solenoids and thoroughly clean the phasers.

 

[piroman683]

Welp, I've officially consumed my 3rd intake cam along with cam followers. All 3 instances have been the passenger side, bank 2.

First was at 58k and covered under warranty.

Then I added the Magnuson Supercharger and my 2nd instance happened at 75k. I did a new motor and put the supercharger back on, and now at 100k I chewed another one up.

I also run my truck hard in the desert, and a manual trans smashing through whoops pits a lot of load through the whole system without much slippage like you'd get with a torque converter.

What surprises me is it has always been bank 2.

 

[Charles 236]

Passenger side is Bank 1, and this is the side that is most likely to wear out a high lift intake rocker arm. The lubrication has to cling to the Bank 1 intake camshaft for about 270 degrees of rotation, verses about 90 degrees of rotation on Bank 2 (driver's side).

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Then I added the Magnuson Supercharger and my 2nd instance happened at 75k. I did a new motor and put the supercharger back on, and now at 100k I chewed another one up.

New or reman?
Long block or short block or complete crate motor?

Passenger side is Bank 1,

Unless your truck was sold in certain other markets.............
But bank 1, cylinders 1, 3 and 5, are always on the right side of the JT as you sit in the seat facing forward looking through the bugs and rock chips in the windshield toward the front bumper.
In other forums we 've got a number of Aussie members so we never use driver or passenger - we use left and right, as sitting properly in the seat facing the front of the truck.

These engines are numbered opposite than what old timers like me are used to.

 

[piroman683]

New or reman?
Long block or short block or complete crate motor?


Unless your truck was sold in certain other markets.............
But bank 1, cylinders 1, 3 and 5, are always on the right side of the JT as you sit in the seat facing forward looking through the bugs and rock chips in the windshield toward the front bumper.
In other forums we 've got a number of Aussie members so we never use driver or passenger - we use left and right, as sitting properly in the seat facing the front of the truck.

These engines are numbered opposite than what old timers like me are used to.

Ah, then bank 1. Thanks for the clarification.

The replacement engine was a complete engine from dealership.

This time I saved the cam and 2 of the rockers/followers. When staring at the followers I can see how the spring loaded pin has become marked up where the high lift lobe rests on it. This is leading me to theorize that the variable lift design intention is for acceleration over a short time duration. Or overcoming an obstacle on the trail for a short duration. Anything more than that started to excessively wear out the pin which then prevents it from moving to the proper location to allow the high lift component collapse correctly.

Additionally, if cruising the highway and the rooms are floating just above and below the 2800 rpm threshold then excessive wear happens to that pin.

In my case with the high speed stuff I do I'm between 2700 and 3700 RPMs for long periods of time. That really starts to wear things out. Also, have a manual trans, hitting whoops puts a ton of load and vibe back into the engine and everything connected to it.

So, at this moment, I definitely see myself as the most probable root cause. However, would be nice to not have to worry about needing variable lift. But, I also understand I'm a weird use case and Jeep needs to meep specific mpg and emissions criteria.

 

[bllprk402]

So, just adding my experience.

1. I am confused as to if the center lobe is used at high lift, then the offset lobes (outside) are for idle, why did I have a bad idle, when the outer cams were just fine.

2. I am starting to get a bit of a rumble in the idle again. Sent oil in, and it came back great. No mis-fires...

Info below for anyone interested. Including some writeups on the repair. Its not terrible if you can get the parts.


https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-rough-idle-stalling-rich-fuel-3-6-mt.121106/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-solenoids-work-together.124486/#post-3079763

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/failed-rocker-arm-camshaft-replacement.118525/

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So, just adding my experience.

1. I am confused as to if the center lobe is used at high lift, then the offset lobes (outside) are for idle, why did I have a bad idle, when the outer cams were just fine.

2. I am starting to get a bit of a rumble in the idle again. Sent oil in, and it came back great. No mis-fires...

Info below for anyone interested. Including some writeups on the repair. Its not terrible if you can get the parts.


https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-rough-idle-stalling-rich-fuel-3-6-mt.121106/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-solenoids-work-together.124486/#post-3079763

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/failed-rocker-arm-camshaft-replacement.118525/

Low lift is for anything up to about 3,000 RPM, not just "idle".
Anything at this point is really just speculation, but, if you had followers stuck on high lift it would mean bad idle and worn followers/cam lobes.
Are any of those articles doing a CCDIFF relearn? They should.

 

[ucijeepguy]

It appears I am having this same camshaft issue. Getting a P0300 flashing at me constantly. I have a 2020 gladiator with 3.6. I started searching and it appears that replacement camshafts are a significant backorder? Should I replace all of the camshafts at the same time? this is a huge issue considering the thing only has 87k miles on it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It appears I am having this same camshaft issue. Getting a P0300 flashing at me constantly. I have a 2020 gladiator with 3.6. I started searching and it appears that replacement camshafts are a significant backorder? Should I replace all of the camshafts at the same time? this is a huge issue considering the thing only has 87k miles on it.

No, the exhaust cams don't have any issues, and if the left is ok, leave it alone.
You can get that P0300 without a cam issue - it simply means multiple cylinder misfire, not bad cam.
Unless you have the really heavy loud knock/tick of a valve train, it could be something else.
You'll know by the sound if there's a cam/follower issue.
It's a "huger" issue for some who have only 10,000 miles on theirs........... but it's a bad thing no matter what or when it happens when it happens to you.

 

[ucijeepguy]

No, the exhaust cams don't have any issues, and if the left is ok, leave it alone.
You can get that P0300 without a cam issue - it simply means multiple cylinder misfire, not bad cam.
Unless you have the really heavy loud knock/tick of a valve train, it could be something else.
You'll know by the sound if there's a cam/follower issue.
It's a "huger" issue for some who have only 10,000 miles on theirs........... but it's a bad thing no matter what or when it happens when it happens to you.

I do have a pretty loud tick, and stumble where if I shut it off and restart the stumble goes away. it seems a fairly loud tick. louder than few thousand miles ago. it also seems down on power compared to what it used to be.
What are you thinking could be the something else issue?

You are absolutely right its a huge issue for the owner no matter the mileage, I'd assume warranty is more likely to deal with it with lower mileage.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I do have a pretty loud tick, and stumble where if I shut it off and restart the stumble goes away. it seems a fairly loud tick. louder than few thousand miles ago. it also seems down on power compared to what it used to be.
What are you thinking could be the something else issue?

You are absolutely right its a huge issue for the owner no matter the mileage, I'd assume warranty is more likely to deal with it with lower mileage.

Hmmm, maybe you are the one who's post I read the other day. If you have a "tick" that has gotten louder, that's not great news (actually, it sucks)
It would be down on power because it makes the best power in high-lift mode of the intake valves. Worn out lobes and followers mean the intake valves don't open as wide and the duration may be cut, cutting power. It could be a real thing you are feeling as far as power.
Crap, sounds like you may have "one of those".

 

[ucijeepguy]

Hmmm, maybe you are the one who's post I read the other day. If you have a "tick" that has gotten louder, that's not great news (actually, it sucks)
It would be down on power because it makes the best power in high-lift mode of the intake valves. Worn out lobes and followers mean the intake valves don't open as wide and the duration may be cut, cutting power. It could be a real thing you are feeling as far as power.
Crap, sounds like you may have "one of those".

Wunderbar. So its likely/possible I do need new intake cams? Im really uninformed on this issue and trying to bring myself up to speed. Ive started searching and seems they are significantly backordered and feel like by the time they show up in 6 months i may just need to rebuild the motor from it exploding. I could be over reacting, but it does feel more concerning than 6 months ago.

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