3.6 pentastar 2020 major problems - Is the newer engine better in 2025 etc.

[DAVECS2]

Just like there can be a perfect storm of bad stuff to end an engine I would say yours is a perfect storm of good. Using decent products, thermal cycling the engine, hot can be good in short duration as it burns off contamination, look at modern diesels. It does need to cycle through the rpm range. It just cannot hang there for hours and days on end. Also driving responsibly probably helps alot.

As for ambient, I am interested if there is a trend. Be it moisture, lack of moisture, always fighting heat soak, being able to heat cycle, frozen.

Maybe lots of heat is good with a good oil, that can lead to better lubrication sometimes.

I think this is why you do not see an overriding silver bullet from chrysler, there is not a prevalent failure criteria. End of the day the variable Lift and variable position are not as robust as they could be. If I was to solve it, better oil filtration, better oil pressure monitoring on the top end, Roller high lift cam, swash plate style cam phazer closed loop feedback on cam position.

The timing set stays together, which is better than ford, and the head gaskets stay in it, which is better than subaru, heck the rotating assembly aint bad either as the mains and rods stay tight even with filthy oil. If you could keep and upper end in it they would last a long time all the time. The upper end in my opinion is probably the demise of 85% of all these engines.

Sponsored

 

[ShadowsPapa]

look at modern diesels. It does need to cycle through the rpm range.

Must be massive differences between automotive diesels and ag or industrial use. Those you start, warm up a bit, then give it throttle and leave it there. You might run in the same rpm range all day.
But then those don't have the same emissions systems of a car or truck.

I did notice that some of the newest equipment being used here last summer to build a new bridge idled the engine down until a load was sensed then it gave it full throttle until the load was off again. Found that interesting. A crane sat here idling until the operator went to do something, then it rev'd up, and when he was done, it dropped back down all on its own (I asked him - he said it was load-sensing)

 

[Stan H]

After reading though this thread... I guess I'm driving around with a 3.6 ready to hand grenade it's self. 101406 miles spent more than half of the miles towing trailers up to 5k, running slightly larger than stock tires, in hot weather, up & down hills, down shifting to 3-4 gears and rpms in 5k range oftenly plus with topper and probably 1000-1400 lbs of s### loaded most of the time. My one utility trailer is made by a company that their main business is building then to haul commercial mowing equipment and like equipment, so over built with either 1 or 2 3500 and 5k axles. Mine was built with additional reinforcements and single axle but narrow enough not to fit anything ridiculously heavy "aka" a car, truck or farm tractor. To identify the over built (read heavy) a picture of the hitch end.

Now, some other perspective, I don't try to drive it like a sports car racing from traffic light to light or stop signs. I change oil & filter before the maintenance is at 10%, I don't try to run the fuel down to E. before filling up.

Nah, you made it Bubba, your over the threshold

 

[Blade1668]

Nah, you made it Bubba, your over the threshold

I really hope so. I damn sure can't afford to replace it. If it comes to that I might just sell off most of my stuff and move to a third world country. I was actually checking out a driving route to Panama this morning. It would be one oil change in route for my Wrangler. The glitch is planning fuel stops.

 

[Deleted member 67086]

GEN 3?????
What's Gen 3?

So far only internet/forum members have figured out the "root cause".
The "root cause" isn't known for the PUG engine HIGH LIFT follower failures.
(not for a fact)

The prior, first generation, was the needle bearings. New design followers have resolved that according to techs out there.

We only know which parts fail on the PUG, no "common knowledge" actual cause of the failure.

I rewatched this video yesterday and thought of you because of the gen 3 reference. Feel free to start watching at the 5 minute 20 second mark.

 

[Stan H]

I rewatched this video yesterday and thought of you because of the gen 3 reference. Feel free to start watching at the 5 minute 20 second mark.

Yeah ,I actually watched that before . And agree on the 4.10's and 35's not needing a regear. Just calibrate the speedometer and good to go .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I rewatched this video yesterday and thought of you because of the gen 3 reference. Feel free to start watching at the 5 minute 20 second mark.

Just shows that some people latch onto what someone else said, or make it up as they go, and it sticks.
Really makes me wonder, too, when a "tech" uses such terms for such a simple change. the engine itself wasn't changed. Only external systems. It's the same engine.
I laughed when he said "that's the 2nd gen" and it would be more reliable. Funny. And again, why I believe that just because you work on something doesn't mean you know all that much about it.
That's funny stuff - because what he calls the "2nd gen" still has the same cam and roller issues as those before it. And the head issues were resolved well before his 2014 1/2 so-called "2nd gen"
Generational changes are major, not small stuff.
Worse, even FCA doesn't address it as a generational change. So - it's likely he's hung out on youtube or forums.
Funny.

 

[Stan H]

Just shows that some people latch onto what someone else said, or make it up as they go, and it sticks.
Really makes me wonder, too, when a "tech" uses such terms for such a simple change. the engine itself wasn't changed. Only external systems. It's the same engine.
I laughed when he said "that's the 2nd gen" and it would be more reliable. Funny. And again, why I believe that just because you work on something doesn't mean you know all that much about it.
That's funny stuff - because what he calls the "2nd gen" still has the same cam and roller issues as those before it. And the head issues were resolved well before his 2014 1/2 so-called "2nd gen"
Generational changes are major, not small stuff.
Worse, even FCA doesn't address it as a generational change. So - it's likely he's hung out on youtube or forums.
Funny.

Well, He is in essence a you-tuber,
But He does run a shop and does have guys He employs and He does work on the 3.6L. As well as other stuff..He is probably better than me , but agin that wouldn't take much effort. There is a female mechanic that does youtube and it was her video that I gleaned tightening sequence and torque values from when I replaced my water pump. It was a good dang video.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well, He is in essence a you-tuber,
But He does run a shop and does have guys He employs and He does work on the 3.6L. As well as other stuff..He is probably better than me , but agin that wouldn't take much effort. There is a female mechanic that does youtube and it was her video that I gleaned tightening sequence and torque values from when I replaced my water pump. It was a good dang video.

We all have our limits - be it skill-wise, or physical-wise.

If he's not employed long-term in a Jeep dealership, then that helps explain the "gen 2" bit........
He works on them, but not at the level a factory trained person would/could if that's the case. Learn by reading, watching and doing in the field, leaving out the whys of things.

 

[Stan H]

We all have our limits - be it skill-wise, or physical-wise.

If he's not employed long-term in a Jeep dealership, then that helps explain the "gen 2" bit........
He works on them, but not at the level a factory trained person would/could if that's the case. Learn by reading, watching and doing in the field, leaving out the whys of things.

Me personally I have 2 main ways I learn watching it done and also tearing it apart and then putting it back renewed but in the reverse order.
If I was brought to an engine bay that had a 3.6 tore down and everything stripped except the heads. Those cams ,phases etc.. probably wouldn't go back correctly. I would have to watch a video or do a fair amount of reading first..

 

[Charles 236]

It does take some practice to be able to "coffee can" an engine (take an engine apart and throw all the fasteners into a coffee can and then be able to reassemble it correctly with fasteners in the correct places, everything in time and so on.) I can do it with all the 3.6s, the non supercharged Hemis, and of course all the old Chrysler engines from back in the day. But I can't do it with the 2.0 GDI and the 3.0 Disaster (Hurricane). Fortunately, retirement is coming in August, and the youngsters can master those. It's also the same working in an independent shop, you get a lot of variety, but you usually don't master everything.

 

[Stan H]

It does take some practice to be able to "coffee can" an engine (take an engine apart and throw all the fasteners into a coffee can and then be able to reassemble it correctly with fasteners in the correct places, everything in time and so on.) I can do it with all the 3.6s, the non supercharged Hemis, and of course all the old Chrysler engines from back in the day. But I can't do it with the 2.0 GDI and the 3.0 Disaster (Hurricane). Fortunately, retirement is coming in August, and the youngsters can master those. It's also the same working in an independent shop, you get a lot of variety, but you usually don't master everything.

I recall doing a Honda Goldwing motor complete rebuild. Case split etc.. Holy Crapola so many bolts. We had to take sandwhich bags and masking tape write on the masking tape where they came from on that case . Way too many to remember. Took me 2-3 days a week for a month to tear down and totally redo everything. And I mean everything. Pistons, rings the whole 9.
So yeah I totally understand exactly what your saying about the unfamiliar engines. Honestly that was probably one of the toughest rebuilds I have ever accomplished. Ran like a top though afterwards.

 

[Stan H]

I must have some kinda warped stuff going on cause I dont mind wrenching .. so long as it ain't 95degrees .

 

[Stan H]

My Dad once rebuilt a Detroit 60series big truck diesel motor in the driveway at the farm . Him and a tech friend of his took em 3 days. I was older and working or I would have helped.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It does take some practice to be able to "coffee can" an engine (take an engine apart and throw all the fasteners into a coffee can and then be able to reassemble it correctly with fasteners in the correct places, everything in time and so on.) I can do it with all the 3.6s, the non supercharged Hemis, and of course all the old Chrysler engines from back in the day. But I can't do it with the 2.0 GDI and the 3.0 Disaster (Hurricane). Fortunately, retirement is coming in August, and the youngsters can master those. It's also the same working in an independent shop, you get a lot of variety, but you usually don't master everything.

For a while I did so many that I could even recall torque specs for a number of things.
Heck, when I ran my shop as a teen, I even remembered part numbers for some things.
Those days are GONE - I have to ask my wife what my SS number is at times.

I got started by my grandfather bringing me things to "take apart" then I moved on to - hey, I can put it back together, too!
I skipped the two intro classes to auto mechanics in HS - I "tested out" by explaining how a Holley 4bbl carb worked, all of the circuits, names and functions, and did the same for a C6 automatic - power flow in each gear including valve body functions.

When I took that final class, the teacher made me take the final exam without the aid of any fancy tools. Points/dwell, timing, idle mixture and speed, all had to be within specs without the help of a timing light, tach and so on. He even rigged some parts to be "faulty".
Others just had to do a tune-up. He pulled parts off, including the distributor, cranked the engine, took off all ignition wiring and other parts.
For the troubleshooting contest, you had to diagnose - figure out what the problem was, and if a part was needed, you had to ask for the exact part or parts by the correct name. Get the name wrong, you couldn't get the part for the car.
I'll never forget that day - we were done, so we thought. Had it running great, closed the hood - and it didn't stay latched. It was on the safety only. It took a bit then we realized the striker was missing. Went to the line judge and for the life of us couldn't remember the NAME of that stupid part.
Fred was ready, though - he said he'd sit on the hood to keep it closed while I drove it to judging. the line judge got a big laugh out of that. We FINALLY remembered the correct name of the missing part and still made it to final judging first.

Sponsored