5W-40?

[Mr._Bill]

I guess I’m also manipulating it using a filter too but a magnet can only help with slowing down the wear. I didn’t like seeing the iron as high as it was and I believe I saw in a FINNING lab report?? that 100ppm would be concerning. 85ppm is still too high for my liking and want to see it south of 30’s.

Crossing my fingers this number comes down and this time I’ll change the oil around 7000-8000k to compare. Watching to see if there are different results between the additive packages of QS to Mobil 1 Extended Performance. There’s certainly some different variables to consider (and also that there was 12L of oil in there at the first plug pull?) Perhaps the high IRON count is a result of this ?? We are watching close.

It will be interesting to see the results of your next oil analysis. In theory, the magnet should bring the iron level way down, since it should be stuck to the magnet and not loose in the oil.

Sponsored

 

[River2016]

Good info and good for thought thank you all. As far as the 6 versus 5 qt part, I assume it’s based on the assumption that the truck will be abused constantly.

i did email the requesting any data they may have to make these claims. If I get any I will inform.

 

[Chestnut]

I feel like the conversation about modified engine vs stock engine is creating confusion. Anytime the engine power is modified from what was originally provided from the factory the oil recommendation in the owners manual is no longer covering the configuration of the engine. Research and testing should be completed to arrive at the proper choice.

As much as I dislike Engineering Explained he makes an excellent point. Engine makers have gotten really good at making engines that last a long time. Fuel consumption has been more difficult. Sacrificing some wear for better fuel consumption was a calculated choice. To point that out how many vehicles go to the crusher because the parts of the engine that are effected by a thinner oil wore out? The main reasons cars i know of that have been scrapped are trans failure, major electrical issues that just don't make sense to chase any more, or rust.

 

[hjdca]

Ah, a preemptive strike.
With his own attacks, as seen in the past as well. Nice.

I'm one who ignored the books and specs on the T5 years ago when ATF was recommended. I run synchromesh. Ironically the spec was later changed to - yeah, synchromesh.



There's good evidence for such a weight oil
0w30 or 5w30 would be better in towing and hot climates than 0w20.
If I get time later (HAHA) I may give 0w30 a shot to see if I note any differences in oil temperatures and so on. It gets cold here so not sure about 5w for myself.
My engines have not had any cold start clatter - nothing can be heard once it fires. It's got typical cold weather valve train sounds, but none of ours have ever had a clatter. They are actually pretty quiet - cold and warm. So I have no reason to believe I'd be any better off than what the "book" calls for.

I run 10w30 in my built 4.0 but it doesn't get run in the winter temperatures. I'm more concerned about hot weather. I've got performance valve springs and a bit more lift on it than stock.


cSt @ cold 40*C (104*F) / cSt @ hot 100*C (212*F)

0W20 = 44.9 / 8.5, or 5.3 times thicker when cold

0W30 = 53.8 / 9.6, or 5.6 times thicker when cold
.
0W40 = 79.9 / 14.3, or 5.6 times thicker when cold
—–
5W20 = 51.6 / 9.0, or 5.7 times thicker when cold
.
5W30 = 62.4 / 10.8, or 5.8 times thicker when cold
.
5W40 = 87.2 / 14.7, or 5.9 times thicker when cold
—–
10W30 = 71.8 / 11.5, or 6.2 times thicker when cold

SAE 30 = 98.0 / 11.4, or 8.6 times thicker when cold, this straight weight oil was added to the list for comparison purposes
.
10W40 = 96.5 / 14.7, or 6.6 times thicker when cold

SAE 40 = 165.0 / 14.0, or 11.8 times thicker when cold, this straight weight oil was added to the list for comparison purposes
.
10W60 = 168.5 / 24.1, or 7.0 times thicker when cold
—–
15W40 = 105.0 / 14.8, or 7.1 times thicker when cold
.
15W50 = 133.8 / 20.2, or 6.6 times thicker when cold
—–
20W50 = 170.0 / 20.2, or 8.4 times thicker when cold
.
Notice how the thickness of the hot viscosity rating (the number AFTER the W) of any given oil above, also affects the thickness of the cold viscosity rating (the number BEFORE the W). For example, 5W20 and 5W40 both have a cold viscosity rating of 5, but the cold thickness of 5W20 is 51.6 cSt, while the cold thickness of 5W40 is 87.2 cSt, or 1.7 times thicker when cold, even though they both have the same cold viscosity rating of 5.

And as you can see above, even at these modest cold and hot temperatures that motor oil thickness values are typically available for, the oil is WAY, WAY THICKER when cold, than it is when hot. And the difference is even GREATER at more normal colder start-up and hotter operational temperatures. So, that means that at cold start-up, oil flow rate/lubrication will be GREATLY REDUCED

Diesel oils have a lower onset of thermal breakdown. Diesel oils are made for low RPM engines, and lower pressures (because the parts are larger the stresses are spread out) and they carry a lower film strength. Gas engines are made for higher RPM and have smaller bearing surfaces, increasing the stress or forces per square inch.
It's not that it can't be done or won't work or things will fry before 100,000 miles - it's that you could do a lot better and a lot longer. Oils are formulated for specific purposes.
How often does a diesel engine wind up to 4,000 + RPM

This is great info. What this tells me is that for a stock motor avoiding "oil break down" by extended oil change intervals is the main thing that can insure long life of your engine. So, if you use the manufacturers recommendation for oil on a stock motor and change the oil every 3K to 4K just to be sure, you will not have a problem.
Note: I have proved this out for myself with 15 oil/Filter changes over approx. 56K miles with my Gladiator. No ticking, no issues.

 

[bleda2002]

Interesting food for thought from another manufacturer:

Ford says if you have the dealer install the factory performance package on a 2.3 Ecoboost or 5L 3rd-gen Coyote, which on both is ONLY a computer flash with zero internal engine mods, you must also run 5w50. The engine oil clearance tolerances don’t magically change after the PP tune. Ford just knows the car is more likely to be driven hard, and therefore should have an oil which provides better film strength to promote optimal longevity over MPG. MPG becomes a secondary objective.

Why should we think Ford would recommend a 50w oil, if cold start or any form of accelerated wear would result? Particularly on an engine they now suspect may have a more strenuous duty demand? The factory warranty conveys unchanged with the PP install.

Ford also recommends 0w40 for cold temps on the 2.3 with tune, and for the coyote anywhere from 5w20-5w50 depending on driving habits. The weight is based on the heat expected as 5w50 is rated for up to 280 degrees where it will sheer down to under a 5w30. As with all things oil, there is no 1 right answer only whats most appropriate for the situation.

 

[jav_eee]

This is great info. What this tells me is that for a stock motor avoiding "oil break down" by extended oil change intervals is the main thing that can insure long life of your engine. So, if you use the manufacturers recommendation for oil on a stock motor and change the oil every 3K to 4K just to be sure, you will not have a problem.
Note: I have proved this out for myself with 15 oil/Filter changes over approx. 56K miles with my Gladiator. No ticking, no issues.

this. It’s every 5k miles for me as these engines seem vulnerable to extended change intervals.

 

[River2016]

Fwiw here is the response received which seems to mirror the thoughts many have.

 

[Hootbro]

But yet they say you are still on your own if you do follow their recommendations and something goes sideways.

Like @Maximus Gladius mentioned, we would still like the data to draw our own conclusions other than their "Just Trust Us" statements.

 

[River2016]

But yet they say you are still on your own if you do follow their recommendations and something goes sideways.

Like @Maximus Gladius mentioned, we would still like the data to draw our own conclusions other than their "Just Trust Us" statements.

Agreed. I would have appreciated it as well.

 

[sharpsicle]

"We are dedicated to sharing these findings..."

Great! Where are they?

"It is crucial...[to] make informed decisions based on this invaluable data."

Agreed. Where is the data?

Also, I was hoping to see more than just 100k of cumulative tests across two different configurations. That's equal to just one engine on normal daily usage. Not exactly 'extensive' in my opinion.

 

[River2016]

"We are dedicated to sharing these findings..."

Great! Where are they?

"It is crucial...[to] make informed decisions based on this invaluable data."

Agreed. Where is the data?

Also, I was hoping to see more than just 100k of cumulative tests across two different configurations. That's equal to just one engine on normal daily usage. Not exactly 'extensive' in my opinion.

I had little to no expectations but I felt like an attempt to see if anything could be provided was worth asking.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

OP, there are some that have started running 0/40 diesel/gas rated oil here. They’ve run the gauntlet here and have made it out the other side. We are waiting for their much desired journals and data. Hope that brings comfort that you are not alone.

 

[River2016]

So I had 5w-20 amsoil first 3k of supercharger. I am sending to blackstone.

put 5qt 5w-40 QS full syn and a 1/2 qt of 5w-30.
I will send to blackstone in 3-4k

 

[sharpsicle]

I would recommend looking into a Fumoto valve with a nipple so you can easily remove a few ounces for analysis whenever you want without doing a full oil change. It also makes regular oil changes extremely fast and clean.

Ours is the F106. I use the short nipple version F106S:
https://www.fumotousa.com/f106s.html
https://www.amazon.com/Fumoto-F106S-LC-10-Lever-Engine/dp/B07D99BSPX

 

[talljeeper]

I am venturing a guess that RIPP has experienced multiple rocker/cam failures with customers hence the bulletin. 0/20 is for nothing more than to appease the EPA and barrel volumes.

Sponsored