6 Speed Manual Regrets?

[NachoRuby]

We'll, it happened again. After taking the hard top for the summer, then removing the doors and putting on the tube doors, I took a drive. Once the oil got to full operating temp I hit a beautiful country road, accelerating hard off the corners, and then, with no warning.....




...a huge smile appeared on my face and I laughed out loud, as I once again was reminded why I love this manual transmission!

Can't wait for warm weather! We had a day of warm weather last week. I took the freedom panels off. Then it's started raining like crazy. Torrential downpour. First Jeep rain of the season.

Sponsored

 

[OHJeeper]

Man Id hate to lose a gear. 6 is barely enough.

They make a 6-speed, but the ratios are so close it just seemed silly

Tremec 5-speed:

2.95

1.94

1.34

1

0.63

Tremec 6-speed

2.97

2.1

1.46

1

0.74

0.5

I liked that 5th gear on the TR5 was between 5th and 6th on the TR6060. And the 0.5 OD on the six speed I don't know if I'd ever use, the Asin is bad enough at 0.72

By comparison, the Asin is:

5.13

2.63

1.53

1

0.81

0.72

I REALLY think 1st gear is too short... with 37's it's more tolerable. I don't think the 3.6 motor with 37's could push the 2.95 first gear on the Tremec, which is why I wouldn't even think of it without a 4.88 or 5.13 plus forced induction.

 

[DanW]

They make a 6-speed, but the ratios are so close it just seemed silly

Tremec 5-speed:

2.95

1.94

1.34

1

0.63

Tremec 6-speed

2.97

2.1

1.46

1

0.74

0.5

I liked that 5th gear on the TR5 was between 5th and 6th on the TR6060. And the 0.5 OD on the six speed I don't know if I'd ever use, the Asin is bad enough at 0.72

By comparison, the Asin is:

5.13

2.63

1.53

1

0.81

0.72

I REALLY think 1st gear is too short... with 37's it's more tolerable. I don't think the 3.6 motor with 37's could push the 2.95 first gear on the Tremec, which is why I wouldn't even think of it without a 4.88 or 5.13 plus forced induction.

I do agree that 1st could be a little taller (but I do like it) and 6th is too tall. The Aisin is really a 5 speed with an extra overdrive. 5th and 6th are both overdrives. .81 is an overdrive ratio. It is nearly the same as 6th gear in the JK, but slightly taller. (JK is .84)

If they'd left off 6th gear and just made it a 5 speed, I would not have regeared my axles to 4.56. I did it strictly to make 6th more usable with 35" tires.

 

[redriderjf87]

They make a 6-speed, but the ratios are so close it just seemed silly

Tremec 5-speed:

2.95

1.94

1.34

1

0.63

Tremec 6-speed

2.97

2.1

1.46

1

0.74

0.5

I liked that 5th gear on the TR5 was between 5th and 6th on the TR6060. And the 0.5 OD on the six speed I don't know if I'd ever use, the Asin is bad enough at 0.72

By comparison, the Asin is:

5.13

2.63

1.53

1

0.81

0.72

I REALLY think 1st gear is too short... with 37's it's more tolerable. I don't think the 3.6 motor with 37's could push the 2.95 first gear on the Tremec, which is why I wouldn't even think of it without a 4.88 or 5.13 plus forced induction.

I've got that variation of the tko600 in my other car, I don't have a bad word to say about it for a performance oriented car, but for a jeep/truck I'll take that low 1st gear and just make it that much easier on the clutch, at whatever expense of 0-60 (even if it had more low end torque than the 3.6). Plus lurching along in 1st is fun in my opinion.

 

[Akgladiator]

3.73 with 6sp is a no-no. A 4.10 axle is minimum requirement for 6sp and only Rubi/Mojave offer it. (MaxTow is auto only).

Test one of those to get a realistic idea of what the manual is like.
Instead of a Rubi/Mojave its cheaper to just swap diffs for 4.88 or even 5.13 and you could
add a locker while your at it.

4.88 in 6th is like a 4.10 in 5th so the eco hit is not too bad plus gear spacing with 4.88 is way better than 3.73.

Yes you are correct. 4.10 in mojave 6 speed does move the rig but must strongly committed in the reving the piss out of the pentastar engine! 8 speed is more refined. I wonder which transmission has more efficiency loss at the wheels?

 

[NachoRuby]

I wonder which transmission has more efficiency loss at the wheels?

About the same. Real world and official EPA mpg figures are very similar. More efficiency loss would mean worse mpg, since the engine is the same.
16 city/23 highway manual vs 17city / 22 highway automatic, and 19 mpg overall for both, which indicates efficiency losses are extremely close.

 

[seven30]

I had the same experience by adding a throttle controller.. the ride became smoother because I didn’t have that delayed jolt after trying to get the gas pedal to respond.. stalling also became an afterthought because a tiny bit of gas input actually provided a tiny bit of gas. Overall driving experience just a lot better.. I noticed immediately when I took it out to go to the dealer. I can lock the throttle with a code so it’s like a security system too.
Hike IT X9 is the model I got

Do you notice any difference with the ESC button pressed? As mine has accumulated miles the throttle seems more responsive. Or could be my foot has just adapted.

 

[seven30]

About the same. Real world and official EPA mpg figures are very similar. More efficiency loss would mean worse mpg, since the engine is the same.
16 city/23 highway manual vs 17city / 22 highway automatic, and 19 mpg overall for both, which indicates efficiency losses are extremely close.

Cruising on highway the manual has a small advantage due to slightly less drag. In town the auto should do better due to not having to declutch/shift.

 

[seven30]

They make a 6-speed, but the ratios are so close it just seemed silly

Tremec 5-speed:

2.95

1.94

1.34

1

0.63

Tremec 6-speed

2.97

2.1

1.46

1

0.74

0.5

I liked that 5th gear on the TR5 was between 5th and 6th on the TR6060. And the 0.5 OD on the six speed I don't know if I'd ever use, the Asin is bad enough at 0.72

By comparison, the Asin is:

5.13

2.63

1.53

1

0.81

0.72

I REALLY think 1st gear is too short... with 37's it's more tolerable. I don't think the 3.6 motor with 37's could push the 2.95 first gear on the Tremec, which is why I wouldn't even think of it without a 4.88 or 5.13 plus forced induction.

Yeah 4.88 would make that tall 6th more like 5th with the 4.10.

 

[NortonJTSS]

Do you notice any difference with the ESC button pressed? As mine has accumulated miles the throttle seems more responsive. Or could be my foot has just adapted.

I actually haven’t tried turning off electronic stability control.. that made a difference? I assume it only applies one of the brakes if it detects slippage

 

[NortonJTSS]

I have driven the auto back to back several times. Not sure how you are feeling the manual is gutless unless you've got the Sport's axle ratios. My guess is that you are not aggressive enough with the manual. You have to go after it and stay in it to redline. 3500 to 6500 is where that 3.6 really shines. You can especially feel a kick in the pants at 4500 as the 2nd stage of the variable valve timing is triggered.

I do wish 6th was the only overdrive and that it had 5th gear's ratio. But it isn't a big deal, to me. Mine pulls 6th above 65mph just fine. If I ever go to 4.56 or 4.88 gears, 6th will come into its own. I'm just not sure I really need to do that.

My advice is to go with the auto if someone is not sure. If a true manual enthusiast, then get the manual. The auto is great. But absolutely boring, to me. I get MUCH more enjoyment from the manual. But again, that's just me.

I’d say it’s the same story with the 3.73, not to say I wouldn’t prefer 4.10.. but yea if you’re shifting at 2k rpm it’s going to under whelm.. I usually shift around 3k and it doesn’t feel the least bit gutless

 

[DanW]

I actually haven’t tried turning off electronic stability control.. that made a difference? I assume it only applies one of the brakes if it detects slippage

I've had it off and on and can't tell a difference. I've also heard people say the hill start assist interferes with the feel, but I've not detected that, either.

 

[DanW]

I’d say it’s the same story with the 3.73, not to say I wouldn’t prefer 4.10.. but yea if you’re shifting at 2k rpm it’s going to under whelm.. I usually shift around 3k and it doesn’t feel the least bit gutless

Yep, this engine likes to rev. I can't keep my foot out of it. I only regeared to make 6th more usable on the highway. No other reason. It's never felt gutless, even before the re-gear. A side benefit was improvement with reverse. It is just too tall.

 

[Mr.volleyball13]

oh, if you're gonna run 37's you must re-gear imo, I went a short period on 35's and 3.73 axle and it was ok, never use 6th and hardly 5th, then had the 37's before the new gears showed up and ran briefly like that, it was painful, couldn't even start a steep incline driveway from a dead stop without smoking clutch and lots of drama...forget backing up that same driveway, 4-low then what once you get going? how to get into hi range on the fly? you can't so gears first, 4.10's won't get you much better, I wouldn't go any less than 4.88's for 37's, that's your minimum, I've got the miles to understand this thoroughly

Jt-wrx thanks for sharing, very helpful. Sounds like you have figured the whole tire and gear setup for your rig. Going to order my gladiator with a manual, hopefully it won't take 6 months to come in

 

[Geoarch]

3rd gen Toyota Tacoma owners have the same discussion as the engine in that truck is made to rev high before much power shows up. There's also much discussion about the manual transmission and how 5&6th gear are both overdrive gears as well.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-manual-trans-characteristics.528380/

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads...and-bs-thread-all-generations-welcome.406844/

I have a 2018 Tacoma TRDPro with an MT, and I can attest to that. It also has an AISIN trans, but higher gearing which is one reason I've ordered a JTR MT.

Sponsored