Another Cam bites the dust...

[Hootbro]

So much for thinking Jeep turned a corner on this issue.

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[ShadowsPapa]

So much for thinking Jeep turned a corner on this issue.

Yeah, I suspect your build date was after that TSB date as well.
Was looking really good for a while. Not that I've ever had a cam issue in any PUG engine we've owned, still, it was a better "feeling", and hope for other owners as well.

 

[Hootbro]

Yeah, I suspect your build date was after that TSB date as well.

Yeah, would have to double check but it is either 11/24 or 12/24 build.

The only thing I would say about the OP's situation is that it was suspect out the gate and would fall in line with the standard early bathtub curve of parts failure. The vehicle was terminal the day he drove it off the lot and would have failed whether he went the recommended oil drain interval or multiple early ones for which he did.

 

[FrankFrqnkFrank]

Someone should get Scott Fisher to chime in. He lead the FCA Global Cam Kinematics COE before he was the supervisor for the FCA Valvetrain 6 & 8 cylinder engines. Hmm, I wonder if they had engineers at the Cam Kinemaics COE

https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-fisher-875b9614b

 

[Lochsa]

Probably a dumb question but would a Blackstone oil analysis report be helpful to determine whether this or not this issue could be present?
The pentastar is fairly noisy at baseline and it’s hard to tell if my tick is a bad tick from other people’s videos.

Easiest and cheapest way to tell, might be to cut open your oil filter when doing oil changes. If you are really concerned, just pull the filter and cut it before you need to change your oil. That would be about $15 well spent either to let you know you have a problem or things are okay. The picture I showed in the thread is an oil filter after about 2800 miles. If you have a problem, and the cam is being chewed, metal should show up in the filter.

 

[Lochsa]

The only thing I would say about the OP's situation is that it was suspect out the gate and would fall in line with the standard early bathtub curve of parts failure. The vehicle was terminal the day he drove it off the lot and would have failed whether he went the recommended oil drain interval or multiple early ones for which he did.

I agree, I bought a broken vehicle. I am pushing for a new engine as I am concerned about the metal through out all the bearings in the engine, especially this early in the vehicle's life. What a disappointment!

 

[JTGuy]

IMO, unless your 3.6 is really shot don't look for Stelantis to do a complete engine. They give you a cam and pick you and your jeep down the road hoping it gets totaled or something. The do that with the trans issues. If it still moves and no CELs then it aint broke.

 

[OldButStillJeeping]

Don't know why they'd need to be matched. You replace cams all the time and there's no matching to anything and no reason for a cam to be matched to a head.

BMW and Mercedes do it all the time. Most aircraft engine companies do it.

Can you just buy a cam on a very modern vehicle and not the head?

I guess that you can. But the high end cams are matched to the head.

So, cam replace isn't the solution. Head and cam replacement is.

Because the tolerances in today's engines are far tighter.

I have seen high end V8 engines sent to the scrap yard for a bad valve train. The whole engine, toast.

Why, because the valves, head, cam, pistons, rods, crank, etc ARE all a matched set.

IMO, oil change type and frequency isn't a big issue. Faulty engines are.

 

[FrankFrqnkFrank]

Easiest and cheapest way to tell, might be to cut open your oil filter when doing oil changes. If you are really concerned, just pull the filter and cut it before you need to change your oil. That would be about $15 well spent either to let you know you have a problem or things are okay. The picture I showed in the thread is an oil filter after about 2800 miles. If you have a problem, and the cam is being chewed, metal should show up in the filter.

that’s exactly how Kip the Promaster expert confirmed the needle valve failure in the pre-PUG Pentastars’ valve trains

 

[Stan H]

Probably a dumb question but would a Blackstone oil analysis report be helpful to determine whether this or not this issue could be present?
The pentastar is fairly noisy at baseline and it’s hard to tell if my tick is a bad tick from other people’s videos.

One of the best ways IMHO opinion is does it have a lose of power on the top end . Above 3k. Because above 3k is were the highlift portion of the cam operates/ comes into play and where the cam follower rides.
Change your oil now tear the filter apart and spread out the filter material see if it contains fine metal particles.

Alot of people will mistake the ticking of the injectors for cam issues. They are plastic with metal guts so the noise of those things ticking is easily heard and dispersered right through the plastic body of the injector. The ticking from the little plugger moving can be louder at start up. Mine will do this ( it has some age) but then after its ran little it will quiet down. ( I find that a can of seafoam every 2nd or 3rd full tank really helps that noise.
I can tell you that I examine everyone of my filters .

 

[Stan H]

One of the best ways IMHO opinion is does it have a lose of power on the top end . Above 3k. Because above 3k is were the highlift portion of the cam operates/ comes into play and where the cam follower rides.
Change your oil now tear the filter apart and spread out the filter material see if it contains fine metal particles.

Alot of people will mistake the ticking of the injectors for cam issues. They are plastic with metal guts so the noise of those things ticking is easily heard and dispersered right through the plastic body of the injector. The ticking from the little plugger moving can be louder at start up. Mine will do this ( it has some age) but then after its ran little it will quiet down. ( I find that a can of seafoam every 2nd or 3rd full tank really helps that noise.
I can tell you that I examine everyone of my filters .

Yes you can purchase just a cam. Gonna take awhile to come in though

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I guess that you can. But the high end cams are matched to the head.

So, cam replace isn't the solution. Head and cam replacement is.

Because the tolerances in today's engines are far tighter.

There's only one thing that has to match - the bearing surfaces of the cam with the size of the head's cam bearing surface. There's nothing else to match.

Not sure what you mean by "high end" but there's really nothing to match. Have you been into these? What's to match? The failures have nothing to do with bearing surfaces and journals.
There's nothing about a valve train to match. It's not how car engines are built.

Every car engine I'm aware of as far as mainstream vehicles. (under $100,000)

There's no parts matching other than bearing sizing and perhaps piston to bore in some cases. But heads and cams? Naw, no reason. Not a single reason.

 

[Stan H]

All great questions - however, nothing anyone, even employees of Stellantis, are likely to know unless they are in that specific role working on the issue.

We don't even know who makes the cams for them, where they are sourced as far as suppliers, if there's more than one, whatever.

Since many are sold post-warranty, you'd have to know raw replacement market sales numbers.

Manufacturing issue - wow, that really narrows it down! What step in the making of a cam? Materials of the blank? Machining the surface? Post machining treatments?
We don't know who makes them - how many suppliers they are, or who performs which processes on them.

Whonperforms which processes. May be the key I have thought the same thing. There are so many being made there is no way that every one is coming out 100%. Some just get unlucky and maybe the heat treat is bad , maybe the steel has a soft spot , maybe the cam follower is soft etc..etc..

 

[JTGuy]

Do you add any friction modification to your oil? If it's friction that's killing the cams. Some of them say they go into the steel, really. Perhaps someday the valves will be solenoid operated .

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Some of them say they go into the steel, really

Some of the chemistry of a quality oil does exactly that.

Adding such chemicals to oil can be risky - as has been shown by oil experts, you can mess up the chemistry of the oil and actually REDUCE the protection and cause more wear.
It's not friction I'm concerned about, it's wear, and those are two different topics.

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