Bronco looks legit

[LostWoods]

"Ford, is that you?"

One doesn't normally go on a Jeep Forum and poo poo solid front axles. Like running into a biker bar and yelling 'Harleys suck!". See how that works out for you.

There's a reason that Toyota and other auto manufacturers still offer solid front axles on vehicles in other less developed countries with bad roads. It isn't elitism.

There's a reason I own a Ford F250 4wd and not a Chevy HD 2500 4wd. Hint... It's the solid front axle.

There's a reason I own a Gladiator and not a Tacoma, Ranger, or Chevy. It isn't elitism. It's off-road strength and capability. Solid front axle.

There's a reason Jeep is renown for off-road capability. Solid axles.

Go wheeling hard sometime. You'll figure it out eventually. It isn't elitism. It's strength and capability.

The Bronco seems very cool. The problem is the front end. So I guess I'm a solid axle purist. You said purists could 'shove it". Respectfully, I won't. But I'll still pull you out when you get your engine skid on your IFS hung up.

Ford could have made a solid axle. They could've had Jeep by the balls.

Here in America where I live, most folks don't care about drivetrain design. As long as it looks cool and starts when you turn the key. Ford will sell lots of them.

Harleys do suck though. And to your point, the reason Toyota still offers the SFA in the LC70 is because it's a literal unchanged 35 year old design for a farm/work truck. No need to change what works and the SFA is more durable for that application much like the Super Duty.


The SFA may be superior at highly complex off-road but it's an inferior design for literally everything else - it's why even Jeep was prototyping an IFS JL during development. It all devolves into elitism because the number of people pushing their rigs to the point they actually need that extra capability the SFA offers is a small minority of Jeep owners at this point and many who cross that line are well into serious fab/upgrade work you could do to any vehicle. It's like someone bragging how fast their car is while never going to the track and while they put up with needing chiropractor appointments weekly for how jarring the suspension is. Nobody cares how fast your car can run a lap, they care how fast you can run a lap in your car.

Being a bunch of brand-whore fanboys that don't allow dissent (I don't go to the JL side of these boards anymore because I had an admin delete my comments on this very topic) is how an OEM gets complacent. Jeep has enjoyed a monopoly on the "real off-roader" image for a while now and the Bronco is going to make a lot of people realize they don't need that ceiling the SFA offers and how much daily quality of life they sacrifice to get it.

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[Mac]

All the love for SFA how do you explain the Raptor or TRX? No SFA can come close off road at speed.

 

[LostWoods]

what's hilarious is the "serious rock crawling" discussion on the gladiator forum. a dead serious rock crawler is a two door wrangler, not the longest mid-size truck available. breakover on the gladiator is absolute ass for hardcore crawling and purists. hell, even the unlimited gets crap for not being a purpose-built vehicle because it extends the wheelbase.

I personally love the JLU wheelbase for wheeling and my dream platform at this point is a 2dr on that chassis. My greatest regret in my vehicle history is not buying an LJ when I was turning wrenches for Jeep and something like that now would be the ultimate dailyable off-roader for me.

The Gladiator is just too damn long for that kind of stuff and aside from the breakover, that ass out back drags on everything. It all meets my needs but talking about this platform for crawling is kind of like a bunch of sport compact guys comparing times while the Mustang over there is going haha V8 go vrooom.

All the love for SFA how do you explain the Raptor or TRX? No SFA can come close off road at speed.

Exactly my point... different designs for different purposes and it's all off road.

 

[NachoRuby]

You mean the FJ that sells now for more than it did new in 2014? The only thing Toyota missed with the FJ was the window. If it started production around 2016, it would be selling so fast right now that Toyota wouldn't be able to keep up.

This insufferable elitism about the axle is the one thing I cannot stand about the Jeep community. Purists can shove it for all I care - both designs have their place and there's a lot more to dirt than rock bashing. The FJ is an insanely capable vehicle that will do more than the vast majority of this board will ever do in their showroom pretty Rubicon.

I agree with you, mostly, but i still don't get all the "jeep on jeep" Rubicon hatred. I almost bought a Tacoma TRD Pro 6mt. I bought a "show room pretty Rubicon" 6mt instead. When I bought it, I never realized how much hatred everyone has for this trim lol. I haven't had a real jeep since owning a 97 TJ, and that was made before Rubicons existed, so I didn't realize how much everyone seems to hate the Rubicons. I Just bought the one I liked.

I'm sure Ford will do just fine with the Bronco. And perhaps it'll push Jeep to innovate, and give us more power, and lower prices (the Bronco starts at a lower price point than the Wrangler, and has power locks and windows on the base model). Maybe Jeep will give us factory 35s too, to keep up with the Jones's. Frameless doors are a nice touch too, and eliminate the need for half doors. Mirrors on the body instead of the doors is a good idea too. CJs were made that way. But for whatever reason, jeep stopped doing it.

 

[db305]

"Ford, is that you?"

One doesn't normally go on a Jeep Forum and poo poo solid front axles. Like running into a biker bar and yelling 'Harleys suck!". See how that works out for you.

There's a reason that Toyota and other auto manufacturers still offer solid front axles on vehicles in other less developed countries with bad roads. It isn't elitism.

There's a reason I own a Ford F250 4wd and not a Chevy HD 2500 4wd. Hint... It's the solid front axle.

There's a reason I own a Gladiator and not a Tacoma, Ranger, or Chevy. It isn't elitism. It's off-road strength and capability. Solid front axle.

There's a reason Jeep is renown for off-road capability. Solid axles.

Go wheeling hard sometime. You'll figure it out eventually. It isn't elitism. It's strength and capability.

The Bronco seems very cool. The problem is the front end. So I guess I'm a solid axle purist. You said purists could 'shove it". Respectfully, I won't. But I'll still pull you out when you get your engine skid on your IFS hung up.

Ford could have made a solid axle. They could've had Jeep by the balls.

Here in America where I live, most folks don't care about drivetrain design. As long as it looks cool and starts when you turn the key. Ford will sell lots of them.

most people that buy new jeeps never touch rocks, so why would they care about a solid front axle? hell, i'd wager that if you asked 10 random people driving a wrangler or gladiator what a solid front axle is, over half of them would be suburban women looking at you like you had another arm growing out of your head.

 

[LostWoods]

I agree with you, mostly, but i still don't get all the "jeep on jeep" Rubicon hatred. I almost bought a Tacoma TRD Pro 6mt. I bought a "show room pretty Rubicon" 6mt instead. When I bought it, I never realized how much hatred everyone has for this trim lol. I haven't had a real jeep since owning a 97 TJ, and that was made before Rubicons existed, so I didn't realize how much everyone seems to hate the Rubicons. I Just bought the one I liked.

I'm sure Ford will do just fine with the Bronco. And perhaps it'll push Jeep to innovate, and give us more power, and lower prices (the Bronco starts at a lower price point than the Wrangler, and has power locks and windows on the base model). Maybe Jeep will give us factory 35s too, to keep up with the Jones's. Frameless doors are a nice touch too, and eliminate the need for half doors. Mirrors on the body instead of the doors is a good idea too. CJs were made that way. But for whatever reason, jeep stopped doing it.

It's funny you mention the TRD Pro because coming from the Toyota side it gets the same hate. It's a flex trim package so many buy just to show off when they have zero need for anything that defines the package. Even worse, for a package defined by a suspension, nearly everyone who buys one replaces that first.

My personal hate for the Rubicon package is the same reason I adore Ford's approach - the Rubicon is available if you buy a nearly fully optioned vehicle while the Ranger and Bronco allow you to throw the FX4 or Sasquatch package on the most bare bones trim available. My hate for the Rubicon isn't the Rubicon itself or the owners, it's the anger that Jeep gates real off-road tools behind a trim package of crap I don't want or need.

 

[NachoRuby]

It's funny you mention the TRD Pro because coming from the Toyota side it gets the same hate. It's a flex trim package so many buy just to show off when they have zero need for anything that defines the package. Even worse, for a package defined by a suspension, nearly everyone who buys one replaces that first.

My personal hate for the Rubicon package is the same reason I adore Ford's approach - the Rubicon is available if you buy a nearly fully optioned vehicle while the Ranger and Bronco allow you to throw the FX4 or Sasquatch package on the most bare bones trim available. My hate for the Rubicon isn't the Rubicon itself or the owners, it's the anger that Jeep gates real off-road tools behind a trim package of crap I don't want or need.

Well, I only drive/will drive manual, so no sasquatch for me, as it is automatic only. That, for me, falls under crap I don't want or need haha. Different strokes for different folks. One thing I do like is that Jeep and (for now) Toyota still offer the 6mt on most trims. Also, a base Bronco 2 door can be had with 6mt, but the base 4 door cannot. I don't understand that, since it's the same vehicle. Badlands has no stick 4 door either. It's personal preference, since I know most won't be buying a manual, but it really is a deal breaker for me. It's why my wife isn't considering a bronco. She wants a base 4 door with a stick.

 

[MPMB]

Some folks need to be reminded about the target vehicles.

In my unlearned opinion, from Ford's perspective, the Bronco Sport is the Subaru killer. The Bronco is a Wrangler killer. And soon, the going for the hat trick, the Bronco Truck.

Don't forget about the Raptor package.

Ford could pull a smart one and do an ad campaign that highlights the Bronco's capability on trails harder than the Rubicon.

 

[db305]

Some folks need to be reminded about the target vehicles.

In my unlearned opinion, from Ford's perspective, the Bronco Sport is the Subaru killer. The Bronco is a Wrangler killer. And soon, the going for the hat trick, the Bronco Truck.

Don't forget about the Raptor package.

Ford could pull a smart one and do an ad campaign that highlights the Bronco's capability on trails harder than the Rubicon.

forester, rav4, cherokee, and crv are all 10"+ longer than the bronco sport. ford's target is more likely the renegade, hyundai kona, and the gm options in the trailblazer and encore. no one is cross-shopping a crosstrek with a bronco sport. subaru is pretty much on its own island.

 

[Hootbro]

Agreed. The FJ Cruiser also aged pretty well. They've retained value pretty well, and owners are holding on to them.

The Bronco, if Ford sticks with it, is likely to do even better. The largest determent to the FJ is Toyota is too darn conservative for their own good. For economy cars this works to their advantage, to things like the Taco (and FJ) they literally cannot innovate to save themselves.

Owned a 2010 FJ. Kind of wish I kept it around. It was like a fat girl at a buffet on the trail, got around ok but bumped into everything around it.

I know what you mean on Toyota not innovating but it seems to serve them well. It has always been the long game and baby steps with them and new tech. They never go all in on a new model launch with too much change at once.

 

[LostWoods]

Well, I only drive/will drive manual, so no sasquatch for me, as it is automatic only. That, for me, falls under crap I don't want or need haha. Different strokes for different folks. One thing I do like is that Jeep and (for now) Toyota still offer the 6mt on most trims. Also, a base Bronco 2 door can be had with 6mt, but the base 4 door cannot. I don't understand that, since it's the same vehicle. Badlands has no stick 4 door either. It's personal preference, since I know most won't be buying a manual, but it really is a deal breaker for me. It's why my wife isn't considering a bronco. She wants a base 4 door with a stick.

That was actually changed because people raised hell after the announcement and they're going to do the 7MT Sasquatch package for the 2022 model year. Out of luck on the top trims because they don't mate it with the 2.7L but the tuned 2.3L still has plenty.

I'd honestly trade power for the extra pedal because you get like a 95:1 crawl ratio with the granny first while the ~3:1 transfer case is still tall enough you can still carry decent speed down trails. I think it's probably the best combo available in a 4x4 in years.

Though I would not at all be surprised if Toyota dropped the 6MT next generation because they're all about manufacturing efficiency. The Tacoma can only get it on select TRD and cab configs (access cab Sport or any of the three with 4 doors) and the take rate is only 5%. That's only about 10-15k per year.

 

[legacy_etu]

I'm just jealous that Ford mounted the mirrors to the A-pillars. How did the Jeep engineers miss that?

It's not a miss. It was explained during the launch that they decided that would interfere with the folding windshield and elected not to do this. Not sure there isn't another place to put the mirrors though to allow them to stay in place. ....like on the removable cowl section.

 

[dcmdon]

Its interesting that people are slamming it because
1) its launch has been delayed.
2) its not shipping to customers yet.

That's just plain dumb.

Both of those problems will resolve themselves.

The only question that matter is whether or not its a good vehicle.

 

[MPMB]

forester, rav4, cherokee, and crv are all 10"+ longer than the bronco sport. ford's target is more likely the renegade, hyundai kona, and the gm options in the trailblazer and encore. no one is cross-shopping a crosstrek with a bronco sport. subaru is pretty much on its own island.

Says you. First off, the targets you list (Renegade, etc) are subcompact crossover SUVs, a class below the Bronco Sport.

The Bronco Sport is perfectly poised to erode Subaru's market in the West. For weekend warriors who need/want something more rugged looking than a wagon, especially for people who want to avoid the Subaru stereotype (not that there's anything wrong with that).

The Subaru Forester and Bronco Sport have the same wheelbase. Forester is longer, but the Sport is wider and slightly taller. Engines are close enough in power.

If you hike, bike, kayak, ski, skinny-ski, surf, snowboard, MTB, or almost any other outdoor activity, you drive a Subaru, Tacoma, or Wrangler (Abraham Lincoln puts this at 80-90% of cars). Go to any trailhead on an unpaved road and you'll see the entire Subaru family in the parking lot. Towing capacity is irrelevant.

Having a slightly taller Whole Foods crawler is very attractive for commuters that typically drive the shorter Subarus. Soccer moms can't all afford the usual full-size options like a Suburban or Expedition in our area (housing costs are going astronomical right now).

 

[dcmdon]

That was actually changed because people raised hell after the announcement and they're going to do the 7MT Sasquatch package for the 2022 model year. Out of luck on the top trims because they don't mate it with the 2.7L but the tuned 2.3L still has plenty.

I'd honestly trade power for the extra pedal because you get like a 95:1 crawl ratio with the granny first while the ~3:1 transfer case is still tall enough you can still carry decent speed down trails. I think it's probably the best combo available in a 4x4 in years.

Though I would not at all be surprised if Toyota dropped the 6MT next generation because they're all about manufacturing efficiency. The Tacoma can only get it on select TRD and cab configs (access cab Sport or any of the three with 4 doors) and the take rate is only 5%. That's only about 10-15k per year.

Yes, you can get the base engine in every trim except for the Wildtrack, but you can build other Broncos into the same thing as aWildtrack if you want. The key thing is that you can get it in a Badlands. Which comes with front and rear lockers and a detachable sway bar when equipped with the Sasquatch package.

The base engine is no slouch. 300 hp and 325 ft-lbs of torque.
Plus there is huge community of highly knowledgeable tuners currently with tons of experience with the 2.3L. 350 HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque is achievable with nothing more than a tune.

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