Bumper retaining bolt torque

[WILDHOBO]

No worries. Did you have grade 8 boule bolts out were they grade 5 zinc coated carriage bolts. Wondering if i got a bad set. i am willing to bet i would have broken all the rest of I kept going

Carriage bolts on mine as well. No problems whatsoever.

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[Dougstdig]

maybe I'm a tad confused? So the warn bumper only uses 6 main bolts to the frame. Not 8. They also say in the instructions to discard the two inner frame gussets - which I find odd, probably due to cutting the frame for those using the zeon series winches. On the bottom end, there are two bracket, each side, that tie into the frame. So 4 more bolts each side. So theres a total of 8 bolts there. for a grand total of 14 bolts. But I think the 4 carriage bolts on the bottom side are going to end up braking. Just a hunch since the brackets there dont line up well and will result in some metal bending as things tighten down.

Thats also the same spot where the bottom skid attaches too as well. So that is going to be a very difficult group of bolts to do a final torque on.

It’s late so the confusion may be from me?. Stock bumper and Warn Winch plate in my case.
The carriage bolts go in the rear brackets into the rear of the winch plate.

leave all bolts loose until all are hand tight. I didn’t have any break. Just because it’s a 10,000 pound or 12,000 pound winch doesn’t mean the bolts have to be tighten to 10 or 12,000 foot pounds yes I know that sounds stupid and yes I had to keep reminding myself when I installed it that I didn’t have to get them that tight Due to the space constraints I don’t think I use the torque ranch on any of the bolts especially the ones going from the bumper back through the frame horns. Just get them good and tight with a regular wrench. I was also shocked to see the four bolts that actually both the winch down to the plate Were on so relatively lightly meaning 30 or 35ft lbs.

… and if you are installing a warn winch plate, don’t forget the spacers on the outside, mounting points on the face of the frame horns. Though he goes through it pretty quickly the fella in the video that I attached above goes through it fairly detailed.

I will say this, extra caution needs to be made with regard to the winch line, coming through the winch plate through the bumper, and through the plate that goes behind the fairlead. You absolutely do not want there to be a chance for your winch line to contact ANYTHING other than the fairlead. I had to take my hawse fairlead off and grind down a little edge of the bumper and the bottom edge of the winch plate, and then hit it with some touch up paint. Obviously none of which will be visible if you would like to take the winch plate out & put the factory plug back in if you sell the Jeep .

 

[chorky]

I also wonder if I just got a bad batch of bolts. It is a possibility.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I was also shocked to see the four bolts that actually both the winch down to the plate Were on so relatively lightly meaning 30 or 35ft lbs.

You know this - it's not the clamping force in that case, it's the ability of the bolt to not shear.

I guess I've done so many bolts over the years I've got a feel for most fasteners (except for body bolts, ok, I admit that! )
Bumper bolt nuts got torqued to spec due to the bumper holding things together as a cross-member in certain collisions and forces, otherwise, the winch stuff got the standard fastener tightening.
On the other hand, with a 2" receiver and then in winter, that plow mount under there, it would take a heck of a lot to distort the front ends of the frame.

Carriage bolts on mine as well. No problems whatsoever.

I had to use carriage bolts on the two top fasteners for my receiver to clear the winch plate. But then about all I do with the receiver is move my trailer around.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I also wonder if I just got a bad batch of bolts. It is a possibility.

The bolt in your pic looked crappy to me - pretty rough surface and finish. Who knows where they sourced the bolts from. many bolts are cold forged and should be pretty smooth, nice slick surface, threads should be smooth, no roughness as they are forged, not cut.

 

[chorky]

The bolt in your pic looked crappy to me - pretty rough surface and finish. Who knows where they sourced the bolts from. many bolts are cold forged and should be pretty smooth, nice slick surface, threads should be smooth, no roughness as they are forged, not cut.

Honestly that was my first thought. That I got a bad batch. Who knows where they are from. But I will say it broke awfully easily. I could feel it stretching and should have stopped...my gut knew something was going to happen and then it went. lol. But once I started looking at the instructions, and reading a few things I started to get pretty frustrated that they didnt include stamped grade 8's with the kit. Maybe from an engineering and metallurgy perspective that is not necessary. Still seems weird to me though.

And I actually had similar concerns with the rear bumper from Road Armor. I recall those looking similar but much larger in diameter. I will have to try and look at them again if I can see the bolt head. I did even email them before installing the bumper questioning if they were grade 8 (there must not be markings on them or I wouldn't have had to send an email). But those ones tightened down nicely without issue. We'll see how it holds up with a winch out back because it is definitely not supported nearly as well with the front Warn bumper with all of its angles, bracing, and 2 additional brackets.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Honestly that was my first thought. That I got a bad batch. Who knows where they are from. But I will say it broke awfully easily. I could feel it stretching and should have stopped...my gut knew something was going to happen and then it went. lol. But once I started looking at the instructions, and reading a few things I started to get pretty frustrated that they didnt include stamped grade 8's with the kit. Maybe from an engineering and metallurgy perspective that is not necessary. Still seems weird to me though.

The part that gets me is that for years Jeeps have been built with metric holes and metric fasteners, and yet so many products for Jeeps are made with non-metric holes and fasteners.
It was frustrating with my RSE power steps because it meant a mix of sockets and wrenches. Why i the world not use metric for anything going onto or into a vehicle that's made metric from the word go.
Get with the program, folks - go metric! I mean - if you export any of this stuff, it's got to be frustrating to customers in other countries.
I should not ever need to have a single non-metric wrench or socket when working on my Jeeps and yet.......
I'm trying to keep mostly metric in the garage where the Jeeps are and the English stuff in the shop where I work on classics. These vendors screw that up.

 

[chorky]

The part that gets me is that for years Jeeps have been built with metric holes and metric fasteners, and yet so many products for Jeeps are made with non-metric holes and fasteners.
It was frustrating with my RSE power steps because it meant a mix of sockets and wrenches. Why i the world not use metric for anything going onto or into a vehicle that's made metric from the word go.
Get with the program, folks - go metric! I mean - if you export any of this stuff, it's got to be frustrating to customers in other countries.
I should have to ever have a single non-metric wrench or socket when working on my Jeeps and yet.......

Man I thought I was going crazy using all sorts of combinations between metric and standard. Glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that.

 

[chorky]

Those brackets are meant to bend a bit. Tighten the 6 main bumper bolts first, after just starting those 8 tying the winch plate to the frame horns. Those are meant to pull a bit, as they are what prevent any distortion when winching. They won’t break. They’re meant to be bracing connections.

So I have been staring at this pic all morning trying to figure out how to tighten the carriage bolts. I know you mention the brackets are made to bend (sounds weird) but the winch has to go on before the sway disco skid. And the sway disco skid has to go on before I can tighten these down. But with the skid and winch on I dont see how these are accessible at all. So, how in the heck did you do that!?

 

[rharr]

yeah. Im pretty frustrated by this quality issue.

these are the bolts that came with my winch

I could have tried reusing the stock bolts but once those broke on me i wanted better. And the stock bolts might not have fit because theyre longer. I had a hard time getting the ones i bough in the holes and they were shorter than the ones that came with warn

those class 10.9 with the shoulder are a good bolt. class 10.9 is about the same if not a touch stronger then grade 8. Now adays anything that I want a strong hold on i use a good high class # bolt with a nice solid shoulder. I hate having a hex head chewy up a finish while it's getting tightened or having a washer deform because the hole is not right.

The shoulder offers nice pull through resistance and good overlap for most holes. Plus it looks good.

Carriage bolts are just a cheap hack.

 

[WILDHOBO]

So I have been staring at this pic all morning trying to figure out how to tighten the carriage bolts. I know you mention the brackets are made to bend (sounds weird) but the winch has to go on before the sway disco skid. And the sway disco skid has to go on before I can tighten these down. But with the skid and winch on I dont see how these are accessible at all. So, how in the heck did you do that!?

I actually have mine removed at the moment. Call me tomorrow and I’ll look at it with you. But I tightened all bumper bolts before the skid went on. In order, all bolts loose, with spacer on one side. I didn’t need it on passenger for some reason. Tighten bolts for winch plate, then tighten main bumper bolts. Then install winch. Then install skid.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

class 10.9 is about the same if not a touch stronger then grade 8.

10.9 is generally considered to be not quite as "strong" as grade 8 in some resources, others say the difference is so small they are basically the same.


Grade 8 according to SAE J429 has a minimum ultimate tensile strength of 150 ksi, which is equivalent to 1040 MPa, which is the minimum ultimate tensile strength of 10.9 fasteners according to ISO 898-1.

They must be good because John Deere uses 10.9 bolts for mower deck pulley guards! Gotta be great bolts!

 

[chorky]

Well. Broke another one today. Well not the bolt but stripped the rivetnut. I must have that crazy old man strength or something. Funny thing is according to Warn these rivetnuts dont even exist and your supposed to use more carriage bolts. I will be calling them. In the mean time I need to drill this out and mine as well replace it with a grade 8 since the local Ace has plenty of options available

Did have a nice chat with @Summitdan to compare notes and we assembled ours differently despite the warn instructions. He didnt experience any of the issues I am. So well see if I can get this thing taken care of tomorrow or friday. Rear winch arrives Friday supposedly so hoping to get this wrapped up soon.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Well. Broke another one today. Well not the bolt but stripped the rivetnut. I must have that crazy old man strength or something. Funny thing is according to Warn these rivetnuts dont even exist and your supposed to use more carriage bolts. I will be calling them. In the mean time I need to drill this out and mine as well replace it with a grade 8 since the local Ace has plenty of options available

Did have a nice chat with @Summitdan to compare notes and we assembled ours differently despite the warn instructions. He didnt experience any of the issues I am. So well see if I can get this thing taken care of tomorrow or friday. Rear winch arrives Friday supposedly so hoping to get this wrapped up soon.

So jealous of the rear winch. That’s a game changer.

 

[Hootbro]

Well. Broke another one today.

Are you sure you are not a high functioning Gorilla?

Only the Rubicon/Mojave models have rivnuts on those frame horns for the factory metal skid plate brackets. Other models they are not usually there.

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