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Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated?

WILDHOBO

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I put the Senergy steering brace in. What a difference. The stock steering has flex in it. I installed steersmart drag link and tie rod. No play at 75mph
The only thing I don’t have is a steering brace. I have heard they only really made a difference with aluminum boxes so I didn’t install one.
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Steel boxes still wear out. The shaft diameter isn’t up to the forces of larger tires and lifts without a brace.
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WILDHOBO

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gearhead22

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The only thing I don’t have is a steering brace. I have heard they only really made a difference with aluminum boxes so I didn’t install one.
Steel boxes still wear out. The shaft diameter isn’t up to the forces of larger tires and lifts without a brace.
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I’m aware that any box can wear out. But that’s usually internally in the splines and such. I thought the brace was mainly designed for the flex that the aluminum box inherently had in the outer case and mounting to the frame, nothing to do with the shaft. A worn out steering box typically has play internal between the splines, a brace mounted externally isn’t going to change that.
 

WILDHOBO

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Steel boxes still wear out. The shaft diameter isn’t up to the forces of larger tires and lifts without a brace.
I’m aware that any box can wear out. But that’s usually internally in the splines and such. I thought the brace was mainly designed for the flex that the aluminum box inherently had in the outer case and mounting to the frame, nothing to do with the shaft. A worn out steering box typically has play internal between the splines, a brace mounted externally isn’t going to change that.
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It’s literally a sector shaft brace. It is to prevent lateral movement of the downward facing shaft.
 
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gearhead22

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I’m aware that any box can wear out. But that’s usually internally in the splines and such. I thought the brace was mainly designed for the flex that the aluminum box inherently had in the outer case and mounting to the frame, nothing to do with the shaft. A worn out steering box typically has play internal between the splines, a brace mounted externally isn’t going to change that.
It’s literally a sector shaft brace. It is to prevent lateral movement of the downward facing shaft.
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The box can have play between the gears inside, hence the adjustment you can make to the preload. A brace will stop the shaft from moving side to side externally, but it will not tighten up worn gears inside. So whether or not a brace helps depends on where the play is. If it’s between the gears, then a new box is in order, or you may get away with and adjustment to the preload temporarily. If it’s play in the shaft side to side, then yes a brace will help support and alleviate that
 

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ShadowsPapa

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Steel boxes still wear out. The shaft diameter isn’t up to the forces of larger tires and lifts without a brace.
I’m aware that any box can wear out. But that’s usually internally in the splines and such. I thought the brace was mainly designed for the flex that the aluminum box inherently had in the outer case and mounting to the frame, nothing to do with the shaft. A worn out steering box typically has play internal between the splines, a brace mounted externally isn’t going to change that.
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No, that's not where the wear is. There aren't splines inside to wear out. It's the rack, the sector gear, bearings and so on inside that wear. There's also a lot of force on that lower pitman shaft bushing, which can wear it and lead to side-to-side play in the pitman shaft.

It’s literally a sector shaft brace. It is to prevent lateral movement of the downward facing shaft.
And unless there's wear down there in that lower bushing/bearing area, a brace does nothing.
Only if there's slop, then the brace takes the place of the lower bearing holding the shaft from moving side-to-side.
There's nothing really to brace there unless the frame itself is flexing.

Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? PXL_20240124_042607624

Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? PXL_20240124_042053769

Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? PXL_20240124_041948873

Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? 1764092451023-16
 
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gearhead22

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I’m aware that any box can wear out. But that’s usually internally in the splines and such. I thought the brace was mainly designed for the flex that the aluminum box inherently had in the outer case and mounting to the frame, nothing to do with the shaft. A worn out steering box typically has play internal between the splines, a brace mounted externally isn’t going to change that.
No, that's not where the wear is. There aren't splines inside to wear out. It's the rack, the sector gear, bearings and so on inside that wear. There's also a lot of force on that lower pitman shaft bushing, which can wear it and lead to side-to-side play in the pitman shaft.


And unless there's wear down there in that lower bushing/bearing area, a brace does nothing.
Only if there's slop, then the brace takes the place of the lower bearing holding the shaft from moving side-to-side.
There's nothing really to brace there unless the frame itself is flexing.

PXL_20240124_042607624.webp

PXL_20240124_042053769.webp

PXL_20240124_041948873.webp

1764092451023-16.webp

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Isn’t there a worm gear inside that teeth ride and engage on? I was under the impression that the box’s can wear internally in this region as well especially with added stress
 

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Dont believe that. It made a difference on my 22 with steel box
Frame flex, not steering box flex. I'd bet on it. You are NOT bending that pitman shaft or flexing the housing. Ain't happening.
But we've seen videos of the frame flexing.
All stock, including tires, you should not see a difference unless you have a steering gear out of spec and a lot of slop in it
 

ShadowsPapa

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Isn’t there a worm gear inside that teeth ride and engage on? I was under the impression that the box’s can wear internally in this region as well especially with added stress
There is a worm but the sector gear does not ride on it.
The steering column is connected to a shaft that has a set of balls around it and as you turn the wheel, those balls run the rack up and down.
The sector or gear, is moved/turned by the rack going up and down.
It's called recirculating ball power steering.

The adjustment people keep talking about - you are turning a wedge that pushes the sector gear against the rack, or let's it move away from the rack. In other words, you are tipping the sector shaft top toward the rack, giving it more pressure or less pressure. I suspect what people are really feeling isn't play that's removed, it's more akin to a heavy steering dampener - it prevents the steering wheel from moving so easily due to the pressure on the gears, so it FEELS LIKE the steering is more solid.
Too much and you wear out the worm, balls, rack and sector - and can cause it to not want to return to center as easily (so people may then up the caster to compensate or force it)
Too little and yes, you can introduce play, but it's so small, the amount so little.


This shows the worm shaft - no gear touches that, a series of balls run in that worm/track ->
Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? PXL_20251125_190841148



Here, number 33 is the rack that runs on the balls that run in the worm shaft-
44 is the pitman shaft with the sector gear that runs in the rack that runs on the balls that runs on the worm................the adjustment moves the rack closer to the rack for a bit of preload.
Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? 1764098466388-xt


What's really interesting is that the images reflect the current steering gear, meaning nothing has changed for decades. MOPAR continued to use the same text and images that AMC used in their TSMs for their own TSM

Jeep Gladiator Can steering wheel play be reduced/eliminated? PXL_20251125_190825011


And yes - this was part of my college and training, so yes, I've had them apart, rebuilt them and so on. It's not a lot of fun.
 
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gearhead22

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There is a worm but the sector gear does not ride on it.
The steering column is connected to a shaft that has a set of balls around it and as you turn the wheel, those balls run the rack up and down.
The sector or gear, is moved/turned by the rack going up and down.
It's called recirculating ball power steering.

The adjustment people keep talking about - you are turning a wedge that pushes the sector gear against the rack, or let's it move away from the rack. In other words, you are tipping the sector shaft top toward the rack, giving it more pressure or less pressure. I suspect what people are really feeling isn't play that's removed, it's more akin to a heavy steering dampener - it prevents the steering wheel from moving so easily due to the pressure on the gears, so it FEELS LIKE the steering is more solid.
Too much and you wear out the worm, balls, rack and sector - and can cause it to not want to return to center as easily (so people may then up the caster to compensate or force it)
Too little and yes, you can introduce play, but it's so small, the amount so little.


This shows the worm shaft - no gear touches that, a series of balls run in that worm/track ->
PXL_20251125_190841148.webp



Here, number 33 is the rack that runs on the balls that run in the worm shaft-
44 is the pitman shaft with the sector gear that runs in the rack that runs on the balls that runs on the worm................the adjustment moves the rack closer to the rack for a bit of preload.
1764098466388-xt.webp


What's really interesting is that the images reflect the current steering gear, meaning nothing has changed for decades. MOPAR continued to use the same text and images that AMC used in their TSMs for their own TSM

PXL_20251125_190825011.webp


And yes - this was part of my college and training, so yes, I've had them apart, rebuilt them and so on. It's not a lot of fun.
The pitman shaft appear to have teeth that ride on the worm gear. Those don’t wear and allow slop? When turn my steering wheel and feel the play, the pitman arm doesn’t move Indicating the play is in the box. Where is the worn part causing the play if the sector shaft doesn’t move?
 

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WILDHOBO

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It’s literally a sector shaft brace. It is to prevent lateral movement of the downward facing shaft.
The box can have play between the gears inside, hence the adjustment you can make to the preload. A brace will stop the shaft from moving side to side externally, but it will not tighten up worn gears inside. So whether or not a brace helps depends on where the play is. If it’s between the gears, then a new box is in order, or you may get away with and adjustment to the preload temporarily. If it’s play in the shaft side to side, then yes a brace will help support and alleviate that
[/QUOTE]
The brace won’t fix a worn box. But I put mine on at 12k, the same day the 37’s went on. So it preserved it for more miles than it would have lasted.
 

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The pitman shaft appear to have teeth that ride on the worm gear. Those don’t wear and allow slop? When turn my steering wheel and feel the play, the pitman arm doesn’t move Indicating the play is in the box. Where is the worn part causing the play if the sector shaft doesn’t move?
You're correct. If the preload from the shaft isn't right against the worm gear, welding the box to the frame still won't help with the play in the steering wheel. The brace is only helping with flexing of the box and the 4 mounting bolts.
 

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I'm trying to find a video showing frame flex at the steering gear. I could swear I saw one but the only ones I am finding now look like loose mounting bolts where a gap appears between the gear and frame at the mounting point. Is there a tube welded in the frame for each bolt to go through or do the bolts go through air inside the frame?

I've seen no videos of a deflecting sector shaft. I had a 2001 Ram that had that exact problem with the steering gear it came with and every replacement gear I installed. The shaft appeared to be undersized for the bearing. Sector shaft braces hadn't come out yet or I'd have put one on.
 

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Frame flex, not steering box flex. I'd bet on it. You are NOT bending that pitman shaft or flexing the housing. Ain't happening.
But we've seen videos of the frame flexing.
All stock, including tires, you should not see a difference unless you have a steering gear out of spec and a lot of slop in it
Did i say it was the box causing it NO. My point is I have a steel box and using a sector shaft/track bar brace made a difference. Dont base your decision on which box you have as to if it will help. Not asking for approval
 

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I was just letting people know - lurkers and others who see things here -
it's not a steering gear issue. Even the aluminum can't "flex" like some believe. The metal fatigue would be crazy and lead to other issues/failures.
People believe it's the aluminum vs. steel - cast aluminum can be bent, but then it's bent. It's not like a spring. Aluminum would bend, then break.
If there's enough play in the pitman shaft then there's other issues that a brace would mask.

Where the steering gear is mounted on the frame can flex under extreme loading. I found the bolts weren't torqued to spec on my 2020 and tightened them up.
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