Check Your Insurance Coverage

[desertfox73]

The excluded types of modifications void your policy. They only have to pay to what is in the contract. And if the contract says they dont cover vehicles modded to lift above 6” or have a turbo installed that increases hp, it is no longer an insured vehicle. That means they dont have to pay, period. It will depend on the actual wording of your contract. Other folks on other forums with other insurance companies have said their vehicle wasnt covered because it was modded too much. I suspect Geico, State Farm, and Allstate, have about the same attitude and their own requirements. Every insurance company has explicitly stated coverage. They have paragraphs for terms like “road”, “claim”, “insured”, “vehicle” and “driver”. It is up to the individual to know these terms

And it is totally fair. The company assessed the risk of covering your vehicle when it was in one state of being. You modify it enough and the risk changes to where they would either charge you more premium or not cover you at all. And they dont do it willy nilly, their number crunchers looked at who was claiming under what circumstances and mathematically the risk:cost was too much. Now, if someone wants coverage for off-road vehicles, monster trucks, etc they can get it. The insurance company can look at that.

Comparing car insurance to health insurance doesnt work. I pay $250/mo for my 2 vehicles, and $1250/mo for my family’s health insurance. I have never had to file a car insurance claim, but I have had to use health insurance every year multiple times. Not even close in comparison of costs and risks

Well, we just wont see eye to eye on this one...agreed that they should have the option to do what they want, since they’re a business, just that they would choose to have such a restrictive policy about mods. My insurance company has no issue with mods - cosmetic, performance or otherwise.

Also, if certain types of modding void coverage (ie void the contract) and you have an accident where the company chooses not to cover you on the basis of the modifications, I assume you could just provide them with a date of the modifications, and ask for a refund of all premiums paid since then, right? After all, if the mods void the contract then they shouldn’t legally be charging you for a service they knowingly won’t provide.

As for the healthcare point, i wasn’t comparing risks/costs, I was comparing the essential nature of what those businesses are - socialized mandatory systems that seem capricious in their decision making.

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[PyrPatriot]

My insurance company has no issue with mods - cosmetic, performance or otherwise.

Who is your insurer? How do you know? I thought all mods and activities would be covered, but upon calling and really pressing to get the language from my contract, I learned there are restrictions. And that's the point of this thread, so that folks can know of their contract requirements. It can differ not only by company, but by state. I can see how in a state like Colorado with lots of wheelers, state law requires insurance companies to cover all mods, roads, etc. But again, insurance companies would offer that coverage because it's required for them to do so if they want to offer any coverage at all.

I have from first-hand knowledge of folks who didn't know their contract language and following a motor vehicle claim they ended up with $100k less in coverage than they thought they did. For example, some states allow for the tacking (combining) of coverages from other vehicles. So if you have 4 vehicles under a policy (they have to each have their own premium), with $25k in underinsured coverage on each, and you get injured while driving by someone who doesn't have enough coverage to cover all your costs, you can file an underinsured claim with your own company. In a state or policy that allows for tacking, you'd have $100k of underinsured coverage. In a state or policy that doesn't allow tacking, you only have $25k. If you get injured in a state that has tacking, but your policy says the policy applies the law of the state the contract was formed in (i.e. your home state that doesn't have tacking), you're s.o.l.

Or even in my case here. Geico ONLY covers accidents that happened on paved or government maintained roads. Their definition of "road" says as much (waiting on my contract to come in the mail to get the exact language as opposed to what the insurance agent told me). So if I damage my car while driving on a designated state OHV trail, even if it is not maintained and is nothing but ruts, the fact that a government agency is responsible for it and it's meant for vehicle traffic means I'm covered. Now, if I go off on a trail that Jeeps have just happened to make, or on private property, nope, not covered. The key point is in what I agreed to in my contract would be the definition of "road"

 

[desertfox73]

Who is your insurer? How do you know?

I have a local agency that uses a variety of underwriters, but most of my vehicles are through Encompass. I specifically asked them about mods because I generally heavily modify my cars/trucks and didn’t want to get caught with my pants down. Aside from my Jeep I have a tuned, lowered and exhaust modified BMW X5M that I didn’t want to risk not being covered.

Not only will they cover my modded car, but if my aftermarket parts are damaged in an accident my insurance covers replacing the aftermarket parts, not just OEM.

This is quite common. Hence my surprise at why a company would not only deny coverage of the modifications themselves, but also the entire vehicle.

And by the way my annual premium for that coverage is not expensive.

 

[PyrPatriot]

I have a local agency that uses a variety of underwriters, but most of my vehicles are through Encompass. I specifically asked them about mods because I generally heavily modify my cars/trucks and didn’t want to get caught with my pants down. Aside from my Jeep I have a tuned, lowered and exhaust modified BMW X5M that I didn’t want to risk not being covered.

Not only will they cover my modded car, but if my aftermarket parts are damaged in an accident my insurance covers replacing the aftermarket parts, not just OEM.

This is quite common. Hence my surprise at why a company would not only deny coverage of the modifications themselves, but also the entire vehicle.

And by the way my annual premium for that coverage is not expensive.

And you are probably the 0.1% of people who think that far ahead

As for aftermarket parts, most insurance companies here do not cover them. When I had work done on my Element (being hit parked), the shop said the insurance companies are only required to pay for putting your car in as good a condition as it was before the accident, if it wasn't your fault. If it's your insurance company paying for your repairs, then it depends on what the adjuster authorizes, which in turn depends on the contract language. Sometimes they can be real sticklers. The guy who hit my car, his insurance company REFUSED to put in any new parts on my Element. At that point the car had been discontinued for a few years, so it sat there waiting to get parts of "like condition". It took 2 months to get back to me, all that time their company foot the bill for my rental and at the end would have been cheaper to total it. But, that's what the contract stated for repairs, and I didn't know about filing a claim for diminution in value

 

[desertfox73]

And you are probably the 0.1% of people who think that far ahead

As for aftermarket parts, most insurance companies here do not cover them. When I had work done on my Element (being hit parked), the shop said the insurance companies are only required to pay for putting your car in as good a condition as it was before the accident, if it wasn't your fault. If it's your insurance company paying for your repairs, then it depends on what the adjuster authorizes, which in turn depends on the contract language. Sometimes they can be real sticklers. The guy who hit my car, his insurance company REFUSED to put in any new parts on my Element. At that point the car had been discontinued for a few years, so it sat there waiting to get parts of "like condition". It took 2 months to get back to me, all that time their company foot the bill for my rental and at the end would have been cheaper to total it. But, that's what the contract stated for repairs, and I didn't know about filing a claim for diminution in value

Honestly, I would never have known to ask about that provision for coverage, but I stumbled across it on the BMW forum I also frequent. That's one of the great things about forums- and threads - like this...it amplifies knowledge to a broader group. Sorry to hear about the Element incident, that's awful.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The issue with some modifications is that it makes them less stable and safe on the highway. Large lifts and huge tires can cause stability issues. If you lose control and hit someone or roll it - you made the vehicle more dangerous.
If it was sitting or you were hit, you would be fine.
It's a matter of what happened, not that a mod will make you no longer covered for any or all things.
It goes way back into the 60s and 70s with cars jacked up high on the back changing the center of gravity, kid flips the car and wants it covered.
He would have been fine had he been hit - but lifting the back end 6" made the car unstable around curves so leaving the highway and rolling it was off the map as far as insurance coverage.
You modify a piece of equipment making it less safe, less stable, less likely to stay on the highway at speed, less likely to take a curve at 60 and then holler about not being covered? Really?

 

[PyrPatriot]

Well, it's been about a year since this thread was started. I'm happy to say in my year or so of ownership I have not caused anything to need an insurance claim. Hoping 2021 goes the same way. Through some digging I did find at least one more thing to consider: that how you convey you would use your vehicle. Specifically, sure the policy might cover the "road" you were driving on, but it may not be the case of intent of travel. For what it's worth, I've cleared my "off road" use with both an underwriter and claims specialist, in writing. YMMV.

The case that got me thinking of this was Am. Family Ins. Co. v. Almassud, a 2018 case from GA. The court held that:

The application indicates that Almassud would “use” the Jeep to travel “to/from work/school.” Almassud argues that AmFam learned he had been using the Jeep for other purposes in 2012, after the wreck. Then, AmFam asked Almassud what the purpose of his trip was, and he responded that he had gone to the mountains. However, taking one trip to the mountains would not constitute a material misrepresentation because a single excursion would not likely influence a prudent insurer's decision of whether or not to issue coverage. The type of off-roading revealed at the underlying trial, on the other hand, undoubtedly would. Thus, the Court finds there are questions of material fact as to when AmFam first learned of the Jeep's off-road use and the extent of Almassud's off-road activities. There are, likewise, questions of fact as to whether Almassud misrepresented his use of the Jeep in the application—i.e., whether he answered the question, as it was asked, or whether he was required to disclose all the ways he would utilize the Jeep that would materially impact AmFam's risk in issuing coverage.
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[KurtP]

Even if you can afford to wreck an LE JTR, it is prudent for everyone to know their coverage limitations. Especially when it comes to mods and off-roading. For example:

A guy in the FB group totaled his Taco while “off-roading” on a designated trail. His insurance, Nationwide, covered it.

But whether YOUR vehicle would be covered depends on the details.

For example: I have Geico. Great service. Great price ($150/mo cheaper than any other provider). I was getting conflicting responses but so far nailed it down to the following (and requested my coverage CONTRACT to verify)

They do and do not cover mods and “off roading”

What is off-roading? Anywhere not on a government maintained road. At first they said “paved”, but upon checking they found their definition only required it be maintained by a gov agency and intended for vehicular traffic. So, even a rutted rocky trail at a state park, if intended for traffic, would be covered. However, your car going into a ditch on your own property, not covered, unless it is paved. Paved may include gravel. Ultimately an claims adjuster would decide, but they have at least some contract binding language that they can point to saying “we dont have to pay for that”

Mods. Any lift that raises or lowers your vehicle over 6” from factory height voids coverage. Tires of “significantly size” also void coverage. What does that mean? Even the claims folks didnt know. By the way they read it, I could have a 6” lift and 40” tires, exceeding 6” height raise restrictions and be covered. I, in my experience dealing with insurance claims and contracts, would interpret the language as they read to me to mean lift and tire above 6” voids coverage. They are silent on how they measure the 6 inches increase, from pumpkin or from top of vehicle?
Anything that increases performance, including horsepower, voids coverage. That’s right. They specifically have included turbos, exhaust mods, etc. Even a simple thing like a cold-air intake would let them wiggle out of coverage. But increasing off-road performance doesnt void coverage because they have provisions for that elsewhere.

So, what does your insurance limit? For those who needed a claim from off-roading damage, how did that go?

this is great advice all should consider.

 

[pacificoflyr]

When my JT was totaled, I had about $11k of stuff added on. I never informed Geico on the add-ons, and if I had, it would have made everything much easier. Even though I wasn't at fault, I lost out. I am still fighting to get some money out of the other party but everyday that goes by I lose more and more hope.

Bottom line, like posted above, read the fine print of your policy, take tons of pictures, save EVERY receipt, and let your insurance know about the Mods, it won't change your premium that much.

 

[Terminus33]

Best piece of advice for anyone dealing with an insurance company, as friendly as they seem, they want to hold on to as much money as possible. I use USAA, they are the nicest people to work and talk with but I know they will try and pay out the least amount possible. If anything happens always get a lawyer that specialized in Insurance claims. A lot if times they can get the most out of the insurance company.

Insurance company's don't get to be the top fortune 500 companies they are by giving away money, they do it with high premiums and low payouts. A good lawyer can even bend the insurance companies own rules and get you more money because of the expected coverage for money paid to the company. Even just getting a lawyer involved will make most Insurance company's not even want to take it to trial and just pay out more, or cover things the adjuster might have denied.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

When my JT was totaled, I had about $11k of stuff added on. I never informed Geico on the add-ons, and if I had, it would have made everything much easier. Even though I wasn't at fault, I lost out. I am still fighting to get some money out of the other party but everyday that goes by I lose more and more hope.

Bottom line, like posted above, read the fine print of your policy, take tons of pictures, save EVERY receipt, and let your insurance know about the Mods, it won't change your premium that much.

I totaled a 2003 Grand Cherokee - winter ice and snow pack.
I made sure to prepare myself by digging into the value of that GC. It was only about 2 years old and clean and nice, well-equipped. I dug into KBB and other resources that dealers and others use along with sale prices of REAL sales in our area. I was prepared for battle and had a minimum all figured out.
The adjuster went out and looked at it and we met the next day. It was short and sweet - he handed me a check for a few thousand more than I had figured because as he said "you had a lot of nice equipment on that thing and I could tell it was extremely well cared for and clean before the accident"
My agent does always say keep photos, keep receipts of any work or changes (like the running boards and other stuff I added to that GC for my wife (and me)) and keep maintenance records. He especially advises me on my other cars, but even the newer primary vehicles. He's more honest than anyone else in the business I've ever met.
But on that WJ, the adjuster obviously looked over, under, in and around and listed things we had done.

On the other hand, even when given the VIN and other info, some companies will low-ball you and argue about it. My Dad's 2010 Ranger was an example. They claimed it had 135,000 miles, no tow package and was a long wheelbase truck. Nope, sorry, factory tow package, short box short wheelbase truck and 35,000 miles. I gave them the freakin window sticker from that truck with the VIN right on it, sent them photos, and showed them service receipts from the dealer when Dad had the oil changed just 2 months before and they STILL argued. I read them the riot act and said look, he was 85, how could he drive that thing 100,000 miles in under 2 months?
It took a month of fighting and me threatening an attorney get involved and they finally backed off - and offered 2 grand over my demands.
So even with dealership service receipts, the VIN and the bloody freakin window sticker from that very truck - sometimes you have to fight. The wheelbase was right on the window sticker and they still argued it was a long wheelbase truck, worth less than the short version. The tow package was listed on the window sticker - but they said the VIN didn't show it.

 

[Gobi-Wan Kenobi]

Well, we just wont see eye to eye on this one...agreed that they should have the option to do what they want, since they’re a business, just that they would choose to have such a restrictive policy about mods. My insurance company has no issue with mods - cosmetic, performance or otherwise.

Also, if certain types of modding void coverage (ie void the contract) and you have an accident where the company chooses not to cover you on the basis of the modifications, I assume you could just provide them with a date of the modifications, and ask for a refund of all premiums paid since then, right? After all, if the mods void the contract then they shouldn’t legally be charging you for a service they knowingly won’t provide.

As for the healthcare point, i wasn’t comparing risks/costs, I was comparing the essential nature of what those businesses are - socialized mandatory systems that seem capricious in their decision making.

Depending on the insurance company's guidelines, the state laws, and the contract they may:

- Just cancel your policy after the accident so the claim gets paid but you are given a cancellation notice letting you know they will not be insuring you anymore after some date in the future (usually about 30 days out)

- Non renew your policy at the next renewal. Again the claim gets paid but you lose coverage at some point in the next 6 months.

- Deny the claim. If they determine that whatever mod you made might have contributed to the accident this is the most likely route they will go. This will also often come with a cancellation or non renewal as well.

- Void the policy. This means the claim does not get paid and they refund your premiums back to the last renewal. they also notify your state of the laps of coverage and you may end up with fines for driving around for the past few months without insurance. This generally only happens if you do something that is specifically forbidden in the insurance contract. One company I am familiar with generally uses this route when people gets in an accident delivering food, street racing, or while driving a vehicle with an "excessive lift" which was usually defined as greater then 6 inches of increased height including all tire and suspension mods. But it was kind of at the adjuster's discretion since they only measured if they thought it was excessive so lots probably slip through that were a little over the limit. Usually they measure bumper height to determine this as long as the bumpers are in the stock location.

Again all of these will vary from state to state depending on laws and regulations. They will vary from insurance company to insurance company depending on internal policies. And even within the same insurance company they will vary based on their actual contract language.

In some states they have to allow some modifications, in others they are allowed to ban everything non stock. All states allow some restrictions. The common ones are engine mods and suspension modes because those impact how the vehicle handles and would impact the rating of the policy. We all know faster cars generally cost more to insure, bigger trucks don't handle as well, etc. Insurance companies are rather risk adverse and don't want to have to customize the policy so they just put limits on what they will insure.

 

[PyrPatriot]

When my JT was totaled, I had about $11k of stuff added on. I never informed Geico on the add-ons, and if I had, it would have made everything much easier. Even though I wasn't at fault, I lost out. I am still fighting to get some money out of the other party but everyday that goes by I lose more and more hope.

Bottom line, like posted above, read the fine print of your policy, take tons of pictures, save EVERY receipt, and let your insurance know about the Mods, it won't change your premium that much.

Geico now has an option on their forms to add mods and put in the value of what YOU paid for it. Which they are very clear on if you call, that they want to know what you paid not what it costs to replace. Which sucks because my bumper and rails were bought used for $600 total, Rubicon flares used for $350 (had to buy liners and fasteners for another $150), and Winch on a good sale. But, better than nothing, and it's for being in the event that you have to file an uninsured/underinsured or your own fault claim as the at-fault party would be primarily liable.

 

[brianinca]

I have Encompass too, for similar reasons, AND they did a stated value policy for my 93 YJ.

I have a local agency that uses a variety of underwriters, but most of my vehicles are through Encompass. I specifically asked them about mods because I generally heavily modify my cars/trucks and didn’t want to get caught with my pants down. Aside from my Jeep I have a tuned, lowered and exhaust modified BMW X5M that I didn’t want to risk not being covered.

Not only will they cover my modded car, but if my aftermarket parts are damaged in an accident my insurance covers replacing the aftermarket parts, not just OEM.

This is quite common. Hence my surprise at why a company would not only deny coverage of the modifications themselves, but also the entire vehicle.

And by the way my annual premium for that coverage is not expensive.

 

[Rocksalt]

I suspect discount insurance policies are discounted for a reason. That only makes sense. I have always had State Farm and they have been great.

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