Clayton Springs On Bricks/Cobblestones

[DivrGuy]

I'm considering the Clayton Off Road 1.5" Ride Right system. I'm driving a 23 Gladiator Willys. I am mostly a highway driver, so on-road comfort is more important than anything else. My town has brick streets in the downtown area. The stock springs and shocks with my 35" Nitto Recon Grapplers smooth out the bricks pretty well. I'm curious how the Clayton coils on the Ride Right systems feel on surfaces like that. Anyone have some feedback on that?

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[bleda2002]

I'm considering the Clayton Off Road 1.5" Ride Right system. I'm driving a 23 Gladiator Willys. I am mostly a highway driver, so on-road comfort is more important than anything else. My town has brick streets in the downtown area. The stock springs and shocks with my 35" Nitto Recon Grapplers smooth out the bricks pretty well. I'm curious how the Clayton coils on the Ride Right systems feel on surfaces like that. Anyone have some feedback on that?

Clayton springs are some of the highest spring rate springs available. You will definitely stiffen up your ride with clayton springs, but even then your shocks (and tire air pressure) will play a bigger role in smoothing things out than the springs. The bigger issue is that typical off the shelf shocks are just not setup to match up to the clayton spring rates. I have fox 2.0's and a clayton springs and dont find the ride to be the least bit punishing even over broken fire roads and 2 tracks, but ymmv.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I've got a video bookmarked that shows how spring rates work to smooth things out.
Basically, if the rate is too high for the weight of the vehicle, you can't keep the tires as planted, traction isn't as good, and the higher rate more easily pushes the vehicle up on a bump and lets it fall on a dip.

From an article on spring rates:

While too stiff of a suspension may mean going airborne when hitting a bump, it can also mean not contacting the road quick enough if there’s a drop in the road. Imagine we have a car with a super stiff spring on the front left tire, and a super soft spring on the front right tire, heading towards a 20 millimeter indent ahead where the road drops. Which tire will come into contact with the road first? You might think the higher spring rate would react faster, but in reality, the lower spring rate will contact the ground first, and thus allows for more grip. Again, going back to imagining a spring with an infinitely high rate (a fixed suspension), you’d simply rely on gravity for the car to drop down into the divot. With a lower spring rate, the force pressing the tire down remains higher longer relative to the amount of travel it has, so it contacts the ground much sooner.

At this point, it may not seem clear why hitting bumps and dropping into dips in the road is completely relevant for grip. Surely roads and racetracks with smooth surfaces allow for stiff springs to excel, right? Looking at the microscopic level, it’s easier to see this isn’t quite true. While at macro scale road irregularities may not be all that frequent, at the microscopic level the road surface is constantly changing. The tire and springs vibrate while adjusting to these small changes in surface conditions, which are made even more apparent when traveling at higher speeds. Ultimately, softer springs will adapt to road irregularities far quicker than stiffer springs, without causing a loss of contact with the road, and thus provide more mechanical grip.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Found it - this is why springs that are too stiff are a bad thing.............unless you are racing.

 

[Rusty PW]

Shocks will play a big part in the ride. I have Clayton springs with Bilstein 5100 shocks. The shocks are stiff with the small bumps, and soft with the bumps. Just the opposite of what I want. Tire air pressure will have an effect too. Too high, and it will feel like a basket ball bouncing.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Tire air pressure will have an effect too. Too high, and it will feel like a basket ball bouncing.

You know it when tires are too stiff. It is indeed that inflated ball feel. No mistaking it.

I have Clayton springs with Bilstein 5100 shocks. The shocks are stiff with the small bumps, and soft with the bumps. Just the opposite of what I want.

I went with Eibach shocks - feel every bump. They are totally wrong for stock springs and street/city driving. At least around here where they spend money on fancy stuff and leave the streets to disintegrate into the dark ages type horse paths.

 

[dayusmc]

I don't off road at all. Originally I put Clayton springs in my Gladiator. They rode HORRIBLE, I ended up taking them out and put Mopar 2" lift springs in. They ride so much better on the street than the Claytons....

 

[darkhorse13]

I think it's been said already, but do not purchase Clayton springs if you want a softer feeling ride... regardless of the shock pairing. Not hating on Clayton, but these will not suit your needs.

 

[DivrGuy]

I don't off road at all. Originally I put Clayton springs in my Gladiator. They rode HORRIBLE, I ended up taking them out and put Mopar 2" lift springs in. They ride so much better on the street than the Claytons....

Wow...that's surprising news. Their whole thing about the Ride Right kits is that they are supposed to maintain ride quality on pavement. Did you perhaps have springs from one of their overland kits? Or are they all the same springs?

 

[dayusmc]

The springs in their kits are the same between the kits, the ride rite vs overland kit is just what comes in the kit...

There have been a bunch of threads on people not happy with the Clayton springs for street driving. My guess is their springs are more designed for heavy off roading.

 

[DivrGuy]

Lots of good feedback here. Much appreciated guys!!!

 

[bleda2002]

The springs in their kits are the same between the kits, the ride rite vs overland kit is just what comes in the kit...

There have been a bunch of threads on people not happy with the Clayton springs for street driving. My guess is their springs are more designed for heavy off roading.

Not so much heavy off roading but heavy gladiators. Their free lenghts are actually relatively short, but their weight capacity is some of the heighest out there. Their spring rates are expecting loaded up JT's with steel bumpers, winches, lots of accessories, bed loads, towing etc. If you are a light and lightly modified JT they are massively overkill for that application especially when combined with digressive springs people often throw on like bilstein or falcons.

I had to transport 1600 pounds of tile across town in an already fat JT with 2 adults 2 kids, and was still off the bump stops a good bit thanks to how heavy rate their springs are. If I wasnt a big tow'er/hauler though i'd probably go RK or something softer though for sure.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not so much heavy off roading but heavy gladiators. Their free lenghts are actually relatively short, but their weight capacity is some of the heighest out there. Their spring rates are expecting loaded up JT's with steel bumpers, winches, lots of accessories, bed loads, towing etc. If you are a light and lightly modified JT they are massively overkill for that application especially when combined with digressive springs people often throw on like bilstein or falcons.

I had to transport 1600 pounds of tile across town in an already fat JT with 2 adults 2 kids, and was still off the bump stops a good bit thanks to how heavy rate their springs are. If I wasnt a big tow'er/hauler though i'd probably go RK or something softer though for sure.

People get spring stuff twisted up - not necessarily referring to members in general, but the internet in general, especially when it comes to Jeeps.
There's two ways to "raise" or lift a vehicle - longer springs with the same spring rate, or springs of roughly the same length but a higher rate.
The longer springs, like the Synergy springs I have, have a rate close to that of a Rubicon with steel bumper. My Overland has a steel bumper and other stuff - so with Synergy springs, the extra length gives me a bit of lift but the same ride.
With other springs, they hold the truck higher but ride harsher due to the higher rate.

So if you want a lift but really want to keep your ride and don't load it up with a lot of extra weight - you want longer springs but of a similar rate to stock..
If you want to load it up with a lot of weight - racks, drawers and so on for overlanding and whatever, then you need a higher rate spring.

Spring rate is how much weight it takes to compress the spring.
A spring with a rate of 130 means it takes 130 pounds of force, or weight, to compress the spring 1" (130/1 or 300 pounds per inch of deflection/compression)

So if your front springs were 130/1 from the factory and you wanted to maintain the ride as it is, but lift it 2", you'd need springs that were 130/1 and 2" longer than the stock springs.
Below - longer springs of same rate kept the ride while lifting the truck.

If you wanted to maintain the height, but needed to have a constant load - more weight in or on the back like a rack loaded with options, you'd buy springs with a higher rate but of the same length.
I put the max tow springs under the rear of my 2020 - they were actually a bit shorter, but held the truck up to the same height as the longer Overland springs. (and a bit harsher ride, but not by much, really)

 

[Jefe1018]

Found it - this is why springs that are too stiff are a bad thing.............unless you are racing.

Never thought I'd see the day you linked a youtuber explaining automotive sciences. I'm proud of you.

Yes, that's just me poking fun.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Never thought I'd see the day you linked a youtuber explaining automotive sciences. I'm proud of you.

Yes, that's just me poking fun.

There are a very few out there - you have to look really hard to find them among all of the "noise" and Scotty K's out there.
Since cell phones and such didn't exist when I was in college - it wasn't possible for me to make videos of the classes, otherwise............... we still couldn't decide between VHS and the other guys in those days.
A compact disk meant you had a pocket sized Frisbee.

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