cold start misfire--> engine failure, might lemon

[Brojave22]

Kind of a long story but ill try to condense..**
2022 6000m Mojave built jan 2022

Part 1)

I have brought the vehicle in for service 5-6 times for the same issues. I am approaching a lemon.

Cold start cylinder 6 has anywhere from 20-700 misfires on initial start after about 30secs then it calms down and runs smooth. They did two software updates, changed valve lifters, coil packs spark plugs on even bank with no luck. Got it back 2 weeks ago and it didn't misfire at all, but now that its back to colder temperatures here, it started again

The engine overheats usually while sitting still, goes up to about 230F hovers then goes up over 260F while driving. They replaced a valve they said was bad, but nothing changed, again its cold here and now its overheating, warmer days it didn't

So, I brought it to the dealer I said it misfires on cold start cylinder 6, I said there is a compression issue either in the fuel line and/or cylinder, they blamed it on the lifters. I know a little about engines and baffled they thought a cold start could be a lifter because the issue wasn't always present, I also suggested carbon build up being burned off after initial engine start, tell me I'm not crazy.

**cold start misfire cylinder 6 overheats when its cold, Fix: software updates, lifters, soil packs spark plugs replaced

Part 2)

Started it in the morning and my guess is the head gasket or cylinder went because all the coolant came out in a cloud of smoke that came out of exhaust, no coolant left, over heating (obviously), P0300 multi cylinder (even bank), parked it in driveway, getting it towed to dealer this week

**head gasket and/or cylinder/head/casting went

I'm pretty upset they danced around the issue and didn't resolve it before major damage, been there multiple times, annoying not getting a curtesy car a few times, long wait times, appointment times weeks out

-- my state lemon law is 4 reasonable attempts to fix an issue or 30 days without the vehicle, both have been met

I'm going to let them try and resolve the issue, I wont accept anything other than new engine but what does that do to the resale value, warranty, and any other unforeseen issues? is it better to just lemon the thing and move on?

any guidance helps

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[Mr._Bill]

I would consult with a Lemon Law attorney. They are attempting to repair it. If they replace the engine, that should fix it. Then you will have to decide to either keep it or trade it for something else. Warranty will continue, regardless of how much repair work the dealer completes. I would push for them to provide an Extended Warranty, if it is repaired. The resale value will be affected some, depending on how much of the work shows up on Carfax. You will need to decide soon. If they repair it, you may lose the Lemon Law option, which is why you should consult with an attorney soon.

 

[Brojave22]

I would consult with a Lemon Law attorney. They are attempting to repair it. If they replace the engine, that should fix it. Then you will have to decide to either keep it or trade it for something else. Warranty will continue, regardless of how much repair work the dealer completes. I would push for them to provide an Extended Warranty, if it is repaired. The resale value will be affected some, depending on how much of the work shows up on Carfax. You will need to decide soon. If they repair it, you may lose the Lemon Law option, which is why you should consult with an attorney soon.

In my state you can still make a case after it is repaired if the vehicle was out of service for more than 30 days and the resale value after repair has gone down, but I see what you're saying, I did an initial request with a law firm near me to get started

 

[Hootbro]

Given what you have said, sounds like you should probably lemon law it if you currently qualify. You really cannot dictate or demand how they repair it, that is their prerogative per the warranty terms.

 

[Gvsukids]

Kind of a long story but ill try to condense..**
2022 6000m Mojave built jan 2022

Part 1)

I have brought the vehicle in for service 5-6 times for the same issues. I am approaching a lemon.

Cold start cylinder 6 has anywhere from 20-700 misfires on initial start after about 30secs then it calms down and runs smooth. They did two software updates, changed valve lifters, coil packs spark plugs on even bank with no luck. Got it back 2 weeks ago and it didn't misfire at all, but now that its back to colder temperatures here, it started again

The engine overheats usually while sitting still, goes up to about 230F hovers then goes up over 260F while driving. They replaced a valve they said was bad, but nothing changed, again its cold here and now its overheating, warmer days it didn't

So, I brought it to the dealer I said it misfires on cold start cylinder 6, I said there is a compression issue either in the fuel line and/or cylinder, they blamed it on the lifters. I know a little about engines and baffled they thought a cold start could be a lifter because the issue wasn't always present, I also suggested carbon build up being burned off after initial engine start, tell me I'm not crazy.

**cold start misfire cylinder 6 overheats when its cold, Fix: software updates, lifters, soil packs spark plugs replaced

Part 2)

Started it in the morning and my guess is the head gasket or cylinder went because all the coolant came out in a cloud of smoke that came out of exhaust, no coolant left, over heating (obviously), P0300 multi cylinder (even bank), parked it in driveway, getting it towed to dealer this week

**head gasket and/or cylinder/head/casting went

I'm pretty upset they danced around the issue and didn't resolve it before major damage, been there multiple times, annoying not getting a curtesy car a few times, long wait times, appointment times weeks out

-- my state lemon law is 4 reasonable attempts to fix an issue or 30 days without the vehicle, both have been met

I'm going to let them try and resolve the issue, I wont accept anything other than new engine but what does that do to the resale value, warranty, and any other unforeseen issues? is it better to just lemon the thing and move on?

any guidance helps

https://www.mylemon.com/lemon-law-b...Law Information,sensor problem free of charge.

Lots of previous threads... https://www.google.com/search?q=lem...nmDFMQrQIoBHoECDEQBQ&biw=376&bih=767&dpr=2.88

 

[Brojave22]

https://www.mylemon.com/lemon-law-blog/2021-jeep-wrangler-and-gladiator-oxygen-sensor-problems/#:~:text=Lemon Law Information,sensor problem free of charge.

Lots of previous threads... https://www.google.com/search?q=lem...nmDFMQrQIoBHoECDEQBQ&biw=376&bih=767&dpr=2.88

Yeah I saw a few of them, should have added if anyone tried manufactures arbitration, state arbitration or just straight lemon law. I put a lot into the JT like most people on here so I was wondering if engine replacement was as bad as it sounds to keep this JT. This is actually my second Mojave, first one someone hopped the yellow line hit me head on and totaled it. Just hate the thought of losing another but if it needs to happen oh well

 

[JETNC]

That sucks, but I was going to say head gasket leak. Then reading further down I was like, yep.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If they replace the engine under warranty and that resolves it, then case closed, IMO.
No other party will care what you put into it so best leave that out of any "argument". It won't matter to them. And you won't get reimbursed for anything you've added.

Engines have been replaced and things turn out fine in most cases - not sure where you get "engine replacement as bad as it sounds".

Ignore what others say for THEIR location - yours will be NY laws, not Iowa, not Nebraska, not Texas. They can vary from state to state so deal with and look up things specific to New York.

If they will replace the engine under warranty - I'd be inclined to let them do it. Less hassle than other paths, IMO.


New York -
Duty to Repair:
A reasonable chance for a manufacturer or its authorized agent to repair a problem for a new car is considered to be:

Four or more attempts to repair and the problem continues to exist; OR
The car is out of service by reason of repair of one or more problems for a cumulative total of 30 days or more.

What consumers should do if they become aware of a problem with the car:
Immediately report any defect or "condition" either directly to the manufacturer or to its authorized dealer. If the consumer reports the problem to the dealer, the law requires the dealer to forward written notice to the manufacturer within seven days.
Keep careful records of all complaints and copies of all work orders, repair bills and correspondence.

https://www.longisland.com/articles/01-29-02/lemon-law-information.html


New Car: If the authorized dealer is unable to repair the car after a reasonable number of attempts (4) during the first 18,000 miles or two years, whichever comes first, and the defect still exists and substantially impairs the ability to use the vehicle, a consumer may file for arbitration and attempt to receive a full refund or a comparable replacement car.

Used Car: Under the law, a used car is a vehicle which satisfies all the following conditions:
(1) it was purchased, leased or transferred after the earlier of
(a) 18,000 miles of operation or
(b) two years from the date of original delivery; and
(2) it was purchased or leased from a New York dealer; and
(3) it had a purchase price or lease value of at least $1,500; and
(4) it had been driven less than 100,000 miles at the time of purchase or lease; and
(5) it is primarily used for personal purposes.

This page consists of an outline of the process involved in the new and used car lemon law arbitration.

The Process

The New York Program's dispute resolution process can be summarized in ten steps as follows:
1 - Consumer's Completion of Request-for-Arbitration Form
2 - Attorney General's Review
3 - Request for Filing Fee by Administrator
4 - Filing Date; Appointment of Arbitrator; Schedule of Hearing 5 - Notice of Claim Sent to Dealer; Dealer's Response; Consumer's Reply
6 - Pre-Hearing Discovery
7 - Hearing
8 - Decision
9 - Administrator's Review of Decision Form
10 - Modification and Appeal

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That sucks, but I was going to say head gasket leak. Then reading further down I was like, yep.

That was my gut once he mentioned over-heating when cold. The cold misfire was coolant getting in when the gap opened. The over-heating could have been combustion gases getting into the cooling system. It just added up - running hot, cold misfire with 1 cylinder, etc.

 

[Brojave22]

No other party will care what you put into it so best leave that out of any "argument". It won't matter to them. And you won't get reimbursed for anything you've added.

I'm not saying I want the reimbursement for those parts it was a lot of work put in and its gone, I would take everything off of it and make it as stock as possible its just sucks

If they replace the engine under warranty and that resolves it, then case closed, IMO.
" "
Engines have been replaced and things turn out fine in most cases - not sure where you get "engine replacement as bad as it sounds".

This was my main concern, you just hear a lot of BS about engine replacements being a nightmare, losing value etc but I don't know much about it, never happened to me before

Have you ever heard of anyone using manufacturers arbitration? says I'm not obligated to the deal but they are, just to skip out on lawyers getting a cut might be good first option. My main concern is getting my down payment back and some if not all of the monthly payments. I'm sure the manufacturer would want to skip on lawyer fees too that's why they have this option, I had a lawyer in a unrelated case in my past charge $200k to the company I was suing just to walk in the court, we settled out of court real fast. but I don't think it will be that easy though

https://www.mopar.com/en-us/lemon-law.html

Step 1
Discuss your concern with the sales representative or service manager at your selling or servicing dealership.
LOCATE THE NEAREST DEALER
Step 2
If your dealership is unable to resolve your concern, contact the FCA US Customer Care Center:
1-844-521-8188
Step 3
If your concern has not been resolved to your satisfaction, you can submit the matter to the National Center for Dispute Settlement, LLC (NCDS). NCDS is an independent company that provides expedited arbitration services at no cost to you.
NCDS will review the facts, inspect your vehicle if appropriate and render a decision. FCA agrees to be bound by the decision; the decision is binding on you only if you choose to accept it.
To learn more, visit the NCDS website, or call NCDS at 1-866-662-4639, extension 120.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This was my main concern, you just hear a lot of BS about engine replacements being a nightmare, losing value etc but I don't know much about it, never happened to me before

That's just what most of that is - BS. Engine replacement won't cause loss of value. Most of us would be thrilled to buy an older vehicle that had a replacement engine in it. Think of it - why would a new engine cause a loss in value when the new engine would have FEWER miles, and you could assume the engine should be fine from that point forward.
People just get crazy on that stuff and say things that have no basis in fact.
If it had been in an accident and the frame was replaced - I might be wary.
But a new engine? I can't see that dropping the value.
If there was a 30,000 mile truck that had a 5,000 mile engine, I'd be fine with that.

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