Death Wobble, DW, Death Wobble, DW, Death Wobble, Shimmy, Wander, Drift, Bump Steer

[Wheelin98TJ]

What's your opinion on the life span of the factory ball joints? The great internet seems to come up with a general number of 60-70kish miles. Of course, individual usage makes a big difference. My usage so far has been 80% in town driving, 10% interstate driving, and 10% forest service road driving. I think my usage would not put a lot of wear on the joints. But at the same time I have some money set aside now and its hard to get out of my mind as a major failure point. It seems the stock parts are considered a weak point.

I wouldn’t try to put a miles estimate on them. Too many variables.

Just check them and replace when they’re sloppy.

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[ShadowsPapa]

I will have to do some research on achieving the degrees with my current tools. It’s a little confounding to think a manufacturer would expect the average owner to keep up with some of these things. I would assume that even a complete stock vehicle would eventually have hardware loose over time with road vibration. Not to mention the stories about units coming from the factory without proper torque.

I have yet to recreate the DW. I have spent all day(my off day) running errands. Hitting every roadway bump and joint at various speeds. Costco was nice enough to rebalance the tires while I waited around lunch time. They did not find anything out of the ordinary. They did remove all weights and started from scratch.

I think I’m going to bite the bullet and get the ball joints replaced with something beefier then factory. My guess is the stock ball joints are either worn at 48k miles or getting close to needing replaced anyway.

You torque the bolt to the spec then turn the bolt the number of degrees stated.
A circle has 360, so one full turn is 360 degrees. Half the turn of a bolt is 180 degrees and so on.
A bolt head and nut have 6 sides/flats and 6 corners. 360 / 6 is 60 so if you have one corner pointing straight up and mark it and turn the bolt or nut until the next corner is facing up, you have turned it 60 degrees. I use a marker on the bolt head to keep track.
I set my torque wrench to 103 for example, mark the bolt head and another mark on the chassis or whatever, and turn that bolt head another 145 degrees.
In this case, 145 degrees divided by the 6 corners on a bolt head mean you need to turn that bolt so that you go 2 more corners and another half - to the next flat, to get 145 degrees.
145/60 (the number of degrees between each corner on a bolt head) is ~2.4

 

[TTU03]

My DW saga so far.

After tightening up the front end and having tires rebalanced, the DW continued. Instead of throwing random parts and money at the issue I asked around local Jeep groups for a recommended shop. A particular shop was mentioned several times. This shop is on paper an hour and half away.

I talked to the shop owner over the phone and felt this guy is about as good as it gets. Today I made the trip which took nearly three hours due to three instances of DW before I even got out of town. About halfway through this trip I had a thought to stop at a dealership on the way and trade this truck in for some with with an independent front suspension. This was a damn scary interstate trip. Every bump and road joint was a threat.

Once at the shop the owner did what seemed like a fairly quick inspection and says the drag link appears to be the issue and says most all the JT’s he works on the drag link is almost always an issue. The ball joints were called tight by using the pry bar test.

The shop stocks yeti steer smart products. I did also ask for an adj track bar as my small lift in the front from last summer made an ever so slight shift in the front axel. I was offered a sector shaft brace but turned that down. So i bought from the shop a yeti drag link setup and yeti adj track bar. I had already bought a teraflex falcon stabilizer 1.1. I had not installed the stabilizer because I wanted a better DW fix before installing it. The shop did install the stabilizer for me as well as the yeti items I purchased from them.

The shop I went to does not have an alignment machine. He is currently expanding and that will be added. However, the shop uses(recommends) an alignment shop near them. The truck is currently getting the alignment worked on. I hope this all works out. Im pushing $1k for drag link, track bar, steering stabilizer, alignment, labor.

added alignment results.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My DW saga so far.

After tightening up the front end and having tires rebalanced, the DW continued. Instead of throwing random parts and money at the issue I asked around local Jeep groups for a recommended shop. A particular shop was mentioned several times. This shop is on paper an hour and half away.

I talked to the shop owner over the phone and felt this guy is about as good as it gets. Today I made the trip which took nearly three hours due to three instances of DW before I even got out of town. About halfway through this trip I had a thought to stop at a dealership on the way and trade this truck in for some with with an independent front suspension. This was a damn scary interstate trip. Every bump and road joint was a threat.

Once at the shop the owner did what seemed like a fairly quick inspection and says the drag link appears to be the issue and says most all the JT’s he works on the drag link is almost always an issue. The ball joints were called tight by using the pry bar test.

The shop stocks yeti steer smart products. I did also ask for an adj track bar as my small lift in the front from last summer made an ever so slight shift in the front axel. I was offered a sector shaft brace but turned that down. So i bought from the shop a yeti drag link setup and yeti adj track bar. I had already bought a teraflex falcon stabilizer 1.1. I had not installed the stabilizer because I wanted a better DW fix before installing it. The shop did install the stabilizer for me as well as the yeti items I purchased from them.

The shop I went to does not have an alignment machine. He is currently expanding and that will be added. However, the shop uses(recommends) an alignment shop near them. The truck is currently getting the alignment worked on. I hope this all works out. Im pushing $1k for drag link, track bar, steering stabilizer, alignment, labor.

added alignment results.

Wow, that's a lot of caster............. obviously you have the control arms cranked pretty good.

 

[TTU03]

Wow, that's a lot of caster............. obviously you have the control arms cranked pretty good.

I have the Mopar lift lower control arms. All other control arms are stock.

 

[Lunentucker]

@TTU03
Hopefully they checked the steering gearbox bolts and the Pitman arm nut, both of which have been found to be sloppy from the factory on a number of JT's.

I'd opt for the Metalcloak sector shaft brace, regardless of whether the wobble issue has abated or not. It's a good solid addition that's only going to help and strengthen the factory design in a known weak area.

You really don't need an alignment machine for these things. It makes it easier, of course, but it's a simple system that can be setup in any home garage or driveway.

2021?
Mileage?
Aftermarket wheels / tires?
I'd still go ahead and check the ball joint torques on it.
If it's 40,000 miles or more, I'd replace them with a good aftermarket set.

 

[NC_Overland]

Kids these days don’t even know the pain us OG guys suffered with the original aluminum steering gear.

 

[TTU03]

@TTU03
Hopefully they checked the steering gearbox bolts and the Pitman arm nut, both of which have been found to be sloppy from the factory on a number of JT's.

I'd opt for the Metalcloak sector shaft brace, regardless of whether the wobble issue has abated or not. It's a good solid addition that's only going to help and strengthen the factory design in a known weak area.

You really don't need an alignment machine for these things. It makes it easier, of course, but it's a simple system that can be setup in any home garage or driveway.

2021?
Mileage?
Aftermarket wheels / tires?
I'd still go ahead and check the ball joint torques on it.
If it's 40,000 miles or more, I'd replace them with a good aftermarket set.

Well so far so good with the drag link, track bar replacement. DW has not occurred and the upgrades have really tightened up the steering in general. The sector shaft brace I will probably buy and install myself before years end. Ball joints I’m hoping to do next colander year. At that point tie rod is the last steering stock item upfront.

Running stock size tires 255/75/17 and factory rims. Nothing to put extra stress on components.

 

[Midwestracer]

(2021 diesel)OK before making my own post figured id just jump in here got the wonderful DW after installing 2.5 clayton ride right diesel specific lift +.75 front spacer to level out for winch and bumper. This lift only has upper control arms i have them shortened all the way and am getting i believe 5 positive caster caster checked on flat spots front of diff with digital angle finder reading 91-90.9 i cannot adjust the arms shorter to get to 90 which i understand to be 6 degrees positive caster. (thinking about buying adjustable lower arms or the Mopar lift arms)
things i have checked: broke all control arms/track bar bolts loose and retorqued lowers to 190ft lbs uppers 80ft lbs track bar upgraded to grade 8 9/16 bolts and torqued to 130ft lbs.
Falcon 2.1 shocks set to firm 37 bfg all terrains that where on the jeep before lift and no problems.
Things I'm going to check steering box bolts and pitman arm nut.
Any tips from here to get this under control jeep has 14k miles on it btw

 

[ShadowsPapa]

(2021 diesel)OK before making my own post figured id just jump in here got the wonderful DW after installing 2.5 clayton ride right diesel specific lift +.75 front spacer to level out for winch and bumper. This lift only has upper control arms i have them shortened all the way and am getting i believe 5 positive caster caster checked on flat spots front of diff with digital angle finder reading 91-90.9 i cannot adjust the arms shorter to get to 90 which i understand to be 6 degrees positive caster. (thinking about buying adjustable lower arms or the Mopar lift arms)
things i have checked: broke all control arms/track bar bolts loose and retorqued lowers to 190ft lbs uppers 80ft lbs track bar upgraded to grade 8 9/16 bolts and torqued to 130ft lbs.
Falcon 2.1 shocks set to firm 37 bfg all terrains that where on the jeep before lift and no problems.
Things I'm going to check steering box bolts and pitman arm nut.
Any tips from here to get this under control jeep has 14k miles on it btw

Stop using the 190 for lowers. The factory spec is higher. There's a thread here on the correct torque specs for all steering and suspension parts.

 

[Midwestracer]

Stop using the 190 for lowers. The factory spec is higher. There's a thread here on the correct torque specs for all steering and suspension parts.

Will dig through it and find proper spec TY, what do you think about the rest of it and do u think that just getting it to the right torque spec might clear it up.

 

[Pismo61]

Stop using the 190 for lowers. The factory spec is higher. There's a thread here on the correct torque specs for all steering and suspension parts.

Is there a set number,or is it a 100 and something plus so many degrees?

 

[Lunentucker]

(2021 diesel)OK before making my own post figured id just jump in here got the wonderful DW after installing 2.5 clayton ride right diesel specific lift +.75 front spacer to level out for winch and bumper. This lift only has upper control arms i have them shortened all the way and am getting i believe 5 positive caster caster checked on flat spots front of diff with digital angle finder reading 91-90.9 i cannot adjust the arms shorter to get to 90 which i understand to be 6 degrees positive caster. (thinking about buying adjustable lower arms or the Mopar lift arms)
things i have checked: broke all control arms/track bar bolts loose and retorqued lowers to 190ft lbs uppers 80ft lbs track bar upgraded to grade 8 9/16 bolts and torqued to 130ft lbs.
Falcon 2.1 shocks set to firm 37 bfg all terrains that where on the jeep before lift and no problems.
Things I'm going to check steering box bolts and pitman arm nut.
Any tips from here to get this under control jeep has 14k miles on it btw

Add the ball joints to your checklist. The 37's may have been wearing them for some time before the lift. Are you running stock wheels and no spacers? More poke can certainly contribute to the issue.
You're off to a decent start, but there really are no magic bullets or shortcuts here. You have to check everything.
If everything else pans out OK, and you can't nail down the issue, I'd go for a remount and balance, a slight toe out, and the Metalcloak sector shaft brace.
Geometry correction brackets would give you more positive caster angle too, but that's more about wander and drift than it is about DW.

 

[Midwestracer]

NOTED! ill add balljoints to the check this evening along with getting my son to turn wheel while I'm under it. The wheels are method 0 offset wheels no spacers and same poke as stock.
Do you preference the Metalcloak sector shaft brace over
YETI XD™ JK/JKU Sector Shaft Brace With Frame Side Track Bar Reinforcement Bracket

 

[Lunentucker]

NOTED! ill add balljoints to the check this evening along with getting my son to turn wheel while I'm under it. The wheels are method 0 offset wheels no spacers and same poke as stock.
Do you preference the Metalcloak sector shaft brace over
YETI XD™ JK/JKU Sector Shaft Brace With Frame Side Track Bar Reinforcement Bracket

I do. I liked the installation technique better and the bearing makeup.

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