Diesel Died

[Free2roam]

They will have to replace the fuel system in entirety. All lines to and from the fuel tank etc. Don't let them not! I've been using Hot shot's secret since my first in failed after 4582 miles. No issues since and 28k on it now.

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[Jteakus]

Additive in my JL and JT diesels from the first tank until present tank. I use Amsoil.
Question for those who know: My 2020 JL is under recall and my 2022 JT is not. What is different about the pumps? Also, what is going to be different in the replacement pump? I am hesitant to change the pump on my 2020 JL until I know what the upgrade is. Dealer can't even get an oil change right.

 

[Adventure_JTRD]

They will have to replace the fuel system in entirety. All lines to and from the fuel tank etc. Don't let them not! I've been using Hot shot's secret since my first in failed after 4582 miles. No issues since and 28k on it now.

They are replacing the entire system they said. 3 of 6 parts have already been ordered but the other 3 parts are on backorder with no ETA yet. Jeep Wave said that they put a priority on the order but who knows if they will speed anything up.

 

[Jefe1018]

They are replacing the entire system they said. 3 of 6 parts have already been ordered but the other 3 parts are on backorder with no ETA yet. Jeep Wave said that they put a priority on the order but who knows if they will speed anything up.

My work place's contract allows us purchase computers from our vendor with priority. We have the right to jump in front of the line with priority orders, but that just means we get put in the back of the line of every other customer who also has priority. I think of it like a Disney fast pass, you get to the front of the line sooner, but do still need to wait in line. I would imagine this is probably amongst the same lines. Hopefully you get back up and running sooner rather than later.

Is Jeep putting you in a loaner for the time being at least?

 

[Adventure_JTRD]

My work place's contract allows us purchase computers from our vendor with priority. We have the right to jump in front of the line with priority orders, but that just means we get put in the back of the line of every other customer who also has priority. I think of it like a Disney fast pass, you get to the front of the line sooner, but do still need to wait in line. I would imagine this is probably amongst the same lines. Hopefully you get back up and running sooner rather than later.

Is Jeep putting you in a loaner for the time being at least?

Yeah it is similar to what i had to when i had my JLUR. It was a manual and they had a recall out for it and my clutch crapped out on me and they were able to put a priority on the clutch and it was there within a 1-2 weeks but that was when the recall was already in swing. With CP4 recall, i think Jeep said Q2 was when they were going to start it. So hopefully they already have a stock of the replacement parts. Both the Dealer and Jeep Wave said that if my vin doesn't show up in the recall Z96, they won't put my jeep under it even though it was the fuel pump that went out.

And Jeep Wave is giving me a reimbursement for a rental since the dealer doesn't do loaners and i had to go out and get my own rental.

 

[22EcoDs]

Yeah it is similar to what i had to when i had my JLUR. It was a manual and they had a recall out for it and my clutch crapped out on me and they were able to put a priority on the clutch and it was there within a 1-2 weeks but that was when the recall was already in swing. With CP4 recall, i think Jeep said Q2 was when they were going to start it. So hopefully they already have a stock of the replacement parts. Both the Dealer and Jeep Wave said that if my vin doesn't show up in the recall Z96, they won't put my jeep under it even though it was the fuel pump that went out.

And Jeep Wave is giving me a reimbursement for a rental since the dealer doesn't do loaners and i had to go out and get my own rental.

Pretty messed up they won't count it against the recall, this proves that even ones not included, should be.

 

[Adventure_JTRD]

Pretty messed up they won't count it against the recall, this proves that even ones not included, should be.

That's what I don't get. I mean yeah sure it's getting covered under the warranty since it's new, but they have a recall out for the fuel pump in these gladiators yet they won't acknowledge that it can be part of it just because the Vin doesn't get a hit in their system.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

There was another member just recently that said they were using EDT hotshots and they had a fuel pump failure.

The design of the pump is the issue, and likely the PCM programming is one of the drivers of that. Green Diesel Engineering called out the cause of it in one of their posts recently.

Sorry this happened! Hope jeep gets it sorted quickly!

There still really is no other mid sized off road truck packing the torque of the JTRD so I won’t be selling mine anytime soon.

 

[Vtur]

There was another member just recently that said they were using EDT hotshots and they had a fuel pump failure.

The design of the pump is the issue, and likely the PCM programming is one of the drivers of that. Green Diesel Engineering called out the cause of it in one of their posts recently.

Sorry this happened! Hope jeep gets it sorted quickly!

There still really is no other mid sized off road truck packing the torque of the JTRD so I won’t be selling mine anytime soon.

Hell yeah. It's so nice getting on the highway and merge all the way to the fast lane, looked up and it's already doing nearly 90 mph ??.

 

[Jefe1018]

Hell yeah. It's so nice getting on the highway and merge all the way to the fast lane, looked up and it's already doing nearly 90 mph ??.

I don’t consider mine fast by any means, but I saw a 4Runner with bro lights try to pass me when I made a right turn a little too slow for his liking the other day. The gap started at half a car length and ended up at about 3 before I let off at an ungodly speed. I know he was trying to catch me because as soon as I let off he flew by. At the light I noted it was a TRD model on 33’s… I run 37’s with stock gears… I love mine too.

 

[Jteakus]

Something to read for everyone.
What is a CP4 Pump and Why Does it Fail? - XDP Blog (xtremediesel.com)

 

[Darkspeed]

Does the Green Diesel Engineering Tune help prolong the life of the CP4 in the 2023 Diesel?

 

[Jteakus]

This is copied from GDE, it does pertain to all GEN3 ecodiesel engines and might be useful for some.

The CP4 Bosch fuel pump has been in the field since 2008 model year with European OEMs in both 1-plunger (CP4.1) and 2-pluger (CP4.2) configurations. It came to the US market in the 2011 model year used by the North American OEMs. Over the years there have been many failures of this pump due to the plunger rotating in the bore leading to the roller bearing grinding on the cam lobe and sending metal throughout the system. The design of the roller-bearing and cam lobe create inertial force on the plunger to keep it in the proper alignment and it should never rotate if the roller wheel and cam always stay in contact. However, there are situations internal to the pump when there is not enough downforce on the plunger to keep it in contact with the cam lobe. This is the core issue of why these pumps can fail.

Now, let’s discuss the internal operation of the pump. There are three operating modes: MPROP control, PCV control (bleed valve on high pressure fuel rail) and coupled pressure control (CPC). The MPROP is Bosch’s name for the fuel metering inlet valve, this controls how much fuel is delivered to the plunger chamber. During MPROP closed loop control, the PCV is over-closed and MPROP delivers the proper fueling to achieve desired pressure in the fuel rails. This method has been used since 2001 on the CP3 pump and is robust. When the accelerator is released the MPROP closes to decrease flow and the PCV opens momentarily to relieve excess rail pressure as the requested pressure is decreased.

The next mode of operation is PCV control. Here the MPROP is fully open and delivering max fuel to the pump plunger and the PCV regulates the fuel rail pressure in closed loop control by closing only enough to reach the desired rail pressure. The downside to this mode is that the high volume of fuel that is pumped into the rail and then recirculated out thru the PCV consumes a lot of power inside the pump and also generates a higher amount of heat. OEMs generally use the PCV-only control method when fuel temps are cold, in order to heat up the fuel faster. This control strategy is also employed on the CP3 and CP1/CP1H pumps.

On high power-density small displacement applications it is necessary to size the high-pressure pump to meet the fuel flow requirements at rated power. On applications with solenoid injectors there is an additional margin that must be included, due to the constant leakage from the injectors thru the backflow line. However, these small displacement engines have a very low fuel rate at idle which means just a very small flow of fuel thru the metering unit given that the fuel rate is low and also the rail pressure is at its lowest point when idling.

With consideration given to component tolerance, sometimes it is not possible to govern properly via metering-unit only control the rail pressure at idle or when coasting with a max tolerance part. This happens because the metering unit at its very first opening position flows more fuel than is necessary to meet the required demand. In the days of the Bosch EDC16 controller several OEMs would make a switch back to the PCV mode at very low fuel rates including coasting, to let the metering unit be open into a more controllable area.

With the EDC17 era was possible also a new mode called CPC (Coupled Pressure Control). This mode allows to prescribe a desired value for both the metering unit flow and also the rail pressure controlled via the PCV valve, leading both actuators to be under closed loop control via PID-governors (proportial, integral, and derivative components). The purpose of this is to allow the metering unit to operate in a more controllable flow rate but not pay the penalty of power consumption and heat rejection by full PCV mode. You can think of this mode as the PCV one but with lower flow rate thru the metering unit.

The OE calibrations for the EcoDiesel 2014 thru the present (both Gen2 and Gen3) all use this CPC mode as part of their calibration strategy. If you rev the engine while parked with the hood open, as the engine speed comes back to idle is very common to hear a prominent noise akin to gravel in a rock crusher or to an engine with solid lifter camshaft that has an incorrect valve lash. This noise happens as the metering unit flow is varied (via CPC algorithm) thru the pump and generally lasts for a number of seconds, sometimes going away and other times persisting indefinitely.

We surmise that during this transition period of flow rate that the noise is generated by a clearance that forms between the roller wheel and the pump’s camshaft. During normal operation (with the factory calibration), the pump operates in MPROP mode generally when under load but constant makes the transition to the CPC mode in light load and coasting situations. During that transition the MPROP has to make a large change in delivery almost instantaneously, leading to a loss of motion control within the valvetrain of the pump.

In all Green Diesel Engineering tuning we turn off CPC mode for EcoDiesel applications (GEN2 and GEN3). This seems to have significantly reduced potential for the plunger to lift off the cam lobe. Due to a persistent backflow from the solenoid injectors to the tank we find it is not necessary to use the PCV mode for fuel heating. Thanks to additional learning functions inside the software we find it is 100% reliable to run in metering-unit only control in 100% of operation. This eliminates the pump noise you hear in light/no-load transitory operation and offers the least amount of energy to drive pump which aids in fuel economy. Minimizing pressure disturbances internally in CP4 is the best method to maximize fuel pump life and minimize a catastrophic failure.

GDE tunes exhibit a much lower failure rate in the field. The only failures of the fuel system we have heard about entail putting gasoline in the fuel tank, putting DEF in the fuel tank, high water content in diesel fuel or running the system out of fuel (pump loses lubrication).

 

[Free2roam]

There was another member just recently that said they were using EDT hotshots and they had a fuel pump failure.

The design of the pump is the issue, and likely the PCM programming is one of the drivers of that. Green Diesel Engineering called out the cause of it in one of their posts recently.

Sorry this happened! Hope jeep gets it sorted quickly!

There still really is no other mid sized off road truck packing the torque of the JTRD so I won’t be selling mine anytime soon.

Top of page. That would be me. Or at least one of the members who had it happen and is using edt every tank

 

[Adventure_JTRD]

5 out of the 6 parts have been delivered to the dealer. Just waiting for the fuel rail to be delivered and then they can start the replacement process of the fuel system, which they said will probably take another week to remove all the fuel system equipment and install the new stuff. At least there is movement, i guess.

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