Disappearing Coolant

[ShadowsPapa]

It's been about a year since this post and when I filled it up to the black dot (hard to see so I circled it). Got an oil analysis kit ready to go at the next oil change. No other symptoms other than disappearing coolant. No signs of leaking or smoke or unusual looking oil when changed. Sitting at nearly 50k miles.

So you are saying that 1 year ago it was at the black dot and now it's below the seam of the tank? That's hardly a loss to jump about.

My photo from 2/24 to only 30 days later…. 3/24.

Now that's a loss.
My 2020 went almost 2 years as I recall and I added about 8 ounces of coolant.
7 months and 10,000 miles and my 2022 has hardly gone down at all.

They will lose SOME over time - evaporation is one reason. These can't be totally sealed, they must vent to the atmosphere or blow up. Pressure would build so high something would bust if there wasn't any pressure release. In the past, it was anywhere from 13 to 16 psi of pressure and above that, it vented to the air - taking steam with it. Over time, you'd need to add coolant as a normal course of maintenance.

Very little… right around 1,000
I’ve had the gladiator for 14 months and have 13,500 ish mikes. Little off road, mostly summer beach/sand.

That's not "very little", that's considered pretty normal or average, the low end of typical perhaps, but not like it sits a lot.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Do you see the level on the oil dip stick increase?

Cracked head, bad head gasket, etc. - could be almost noting at all as far as coolant in the oil. There would be traces in an analysis, but not a noticeable rise in the oil level (which would also look like an over-priced Starbucks drink)
I've seen a lot of coolant loss over the years due to cracks, gaskets and so on, and nothing showing up in the oil
It is something to watch for, but the analysis is going to catch it more than anything.
Another test to run is to check for combustion gases in the cooling system.

 

[OverlandJT1]

So you are saying that 1 year ago it was at the black dot and now it's below the seam of the tank? That's hardly a loss to jump about.



Now that's a loss.
My 2020 went almost 2 years as I recall and I added about 8 ounces of coolant.
7 months and 10,000 miles and my 2022 has hardly gone down at all.

They will lose SOME over time - evaporation is one reason. These can't be totally sealed, they must vent to the atmosphere or blow up. Pressure would build so high something would bust if there wasn't any pressure release. In the past, it was anywhere from 13 to 16 psi of pressure and above that, it vented to the air - taking steam with it. Over time, you'd need to add coolant as a normal course of maintenance.


That's not "very little", that's considered pretty normal or average, the low end of typical perhaps, but not like it sits a lot.

Well… relatively speaking. Back in 2011-2014 I had a stretch where I drove 90,000 miles in three years.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well… relatively speaking. Back in 2011-2014 I had a stretch where I drove 90,000 miles in three years.

Yeah, guess it's all relative!
My wife drove her last Jeep about 4700/year. I've got over 10,000 on my current Gladiator, bought last July.

 

[HappyGladiator]

My next Jeep will have anything under the hood but a 3.6.

 

[techteacher]

So you are saying that 1 year ago it was at the black dot and now it's below the seam of the tank? That's hardly a loss to jump about.

Yes, it took 16 oz to get it back up to the line. Just wondering what to gauge as normal - third Jeep with this engine and the only one that's needed coolant at this rate. I will be interested to see what the oil analysis says. Maybe it is just evaporating off about an ounce a month. With no other symptoms, it's just an item of note for now.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

My next Jeep will have anything under the hood but a 3.6.

3 MILLION 3.6 Pentastar engines, FEW issues since 2015 and yet when there are some complaints on the web - which is a support group for people with issues, people want to bail.
Anyway, what the Gladiator will get is 4xe. What it will keep is 3.6
What won't happen is 392 or hurricane according to some talk this AM while waiting for our Wrangler to get the 23A "recall".
Ram - hurricane is what they're saying here.

 

[Jeepmonster]

Darn, block tester confirmed my suspicion regarding disappearing coolant. Pressure test didn't show anything (pressure remained steady at 10, 15, and 20 psig), while engine was hot and cold. Block tester says otherwise. Off to the dealer...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Darn, block tester confirmed my suspicion regarding disappearing coolant. Pressure test didn't show anything (pressure remained steady at 10, 15, and 20 psig), while engine was hot and cold. Block tester says otherwise. Off to the dealer...

That looks exactly like the one I used years ago in the shop!
The situation is that during combustion the pressures are high in that chamber, possibly forcing gases into the coolant. But when off, the leak can "seal" - not being forced open by the vacuum of intake and pressure of combustion.

I forgot - what are these cooling systems rated for? 20 psi? It's a lot higher than the 12, 13, 14 or 16 of years ago if I recall correctly. That ,means when hot and running, it could be pulling in coolant during intake when it's really hot.

Either way, smart move, good catch.

Now the tricky part - WHERE is the problem? Head? Gasket? Block? Is the EGR cooled by the coolant?

 

[Jeepmonster]

That looks exactly like the one I used years ago in the shop!
The situation is that during combustion the pressures are high in that chamber, possibly forcing gases into the coolant. But when off, the leak can "seal" - not being forced open by the vacuum of intake and pressure of combustion.

I forgot - what are these cooling systems rated for? 20 psi? It's a lot higher than the 12, 13, 14 or 16 of years ago if I recall correctly. That ,means when hot and running, it could be pulling in coolant during intake when it's really hot.

Either way, smart move, good catch.

Now the tricky part - WHERE is the problem? Head? Gasket? Block? Is the EGR cooled by the coolant?

The coolant cap says 21 PSI. You're asking the right questions regarding the source of the problem. Here are some additional info, some of which may be related/unrelated:
1. I had to add about 16-20 oz over the three years, 22k miles.
2. NO engine codes ever (no misfire, nothing).
3. I did smell coolant near the FRONT of Jeep during start up. Nothing noticeable at the tailpipe (hot or cold). Smell was most noticeable when remote starting.
4. Smell dies down after engine is hot. When I open the hood, I can smell it just above the radiator on the drivers side (just a faint scent on passenger side). I don't smell it near the reservoir or cap, even with the cap off.
5. No drip marks anywhere, ever. Not on the driveway, not on any components (axle, skid plates, etc.). No visible signs of leaks/seeps at hose clamps or plastic/aluminum interface of the radiator.
6. No calcification or steam marks anywhere under the hood that I can see.
7. No change in oil consistency or level. The three oil changes I have done resulted in just about 5 quarts coming out. I will send in an oil sample for analysis at the next oil change.

Your question about the EGR cooling has me curious. A quick Google search returned some information regarding the EGR cooler (about $800, by the way). I want to learn more about it and how it works. Not positive, but I think it is on the drivers side (just forward and below the coolant reservoir).

Am I mistaking what I thought was coolant smell with something else? It's the sweet, burnt coffee smell.

The test fluid is very sensitive to CO2. I blew a short puff into the test kit, and it changed color immediately, much faster than when I tested the Jeep.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The coolant cap says 21 PSI. You're asking the right questions regarding the source of the problem. Here are some additional info, some of which may be related/unrelated:
1. I had to add about 16-20 oz over the three years, 22k miles.
2. NO engine codes ever (no misfire, nothing).
3. I did smell coolant near the FRONT of Jeep during start up. Nothing noticeable at the tailpipe (hot or cold). Smell was most noticeable when remote starting.
4. Smell dies down after engine is hot. When I open the hood, I can smell it just above the radiator on the drivers side (just a faint scent on passenger side). I don't smell it near the reservoir or cap, even with the cap off.
5. No drip marks anywhere, ever. Not on the driveway, not on any components (axle, skid plates, etc.). No visible signs of leaks/seeps at hose clamps or plastic/aluminum interface of the radiator.
6. No calcification or steam marks anywhere under the hood that I can see.
7. No change in oil consistency or level. The three oil changes I have done resulted in just about 5 quarts coming out. I will send in an oil sample for analysis at the next oil change.

Your question about the EGR cooling has me curious. A quick Google search returned some information regarding the EGR cooler (about $800, by the way). I want to learn more about it and how it works. Not positive, but I think it is on the drivers side (just forward and below the coolant reservoir).

Am I mistaking what I thought was coolant smell with something else? It's the sweet, burnt coffee smell.

The test fluid is very sensitive to CO2. I blew a short puff into the test kit, and it change color immediately, much faster than when I tested the Jeep.

Over the years, especially in the 70s and 80s, I had my share of coolant eating situations. The last shop was just off I80 and not far from I35. A LOT of summer time vacationers, hot weather, long trips with loaded cars and trucks.
I got used to the burned coolant smell, unmistakable. I guess I never likened it to burnt coffee, but....
In those days, if there were cats, they were the first, crude types, a few with AIR (Air Injection Reactor) systems (air pumps shoving oxygen into the exhaust manifolds and head pipe just ahead of the converter) It smells different to me from a non-cat exhaust vs. one with a cat, and then modern systems have multiple converters in the exhaust.
Anyway, anything from cracked heads (usually around the valve seat areas) to cracked blocks, usually in the cylinder wall area) to warped heads causing the gasket to leak after it had been run hot once.
On my son's Iron Duke in his SX4 the head gasket had actually been eaten away a bit by combustion gases passing between two of the cylinders. It actually ate into the head a bit.
There are so many possibilities, even more with these.
Normally a pressure test can eventually lead to the origin, I've found sometimes you need to let it sit pressurized for a while, then manually turn the engine over to change where things are sitting internally.

The easy ones were where you put the combustion gas tester on the radiator (old days) and with the engine running, watched it slowly bubble as the color changed.

 

[BornCDN]

Looking for some thoughts on disappearing coolant. 2020 gasser w/34k. A few months back I started hearing coolant washing through the heater core especially during ESS (start/stop). As winter rolled on I started to realize my heat wasn't getting up to speed quickly. Checked on my coolant it was about a 1/4 inch lining the bottom of the reservoir tank. Dropped it by the dealership and got back everything was working as expected. Anyways...mixed up some coolant and it took about 16 oz to get back to the minimum mark in the tank. No visible white smoke. No leaking in the cabin or on the ground. Incidentally, yesterday changed the oil for the first time myself (jeep wave ran out) and as the oil was coming out it appeared to have a purple/reddish hue that seemed peculiar. Is some coolant burn off normal in the pentastar 3.6? Or is it more likely I've got a small breach of coolant into the combustion area? TIA

Hello,

this seems to be a big problem with the Jeep Gladiator. Maximus Gladus has been helping me with getting the data I need because the engine is faulty and needs to be replaced. So far I had 2 oil samples done and both come back with high amounts of coolant and flacks of chrome , with high iron. My jeeps engine is literally falling apart because of the coolant leaking and corroding everything. Time to do an oil analysis.

 

[BornCDN]

Same thing here… I’ve been noticing a sweet/burnt coffee kind of burning smell when I accelerate onto a highway or even at 65 in cruise control. This has been happening for about 6 months and my Overland Glady is only 14 months old with only 12k miles and it was happening at 8 months with only 6k miles…. I went to 3 Jeep Dealers and it was the worst service ever… writing it off nothing… nothing… Oh and one Jeep dealer said it was related to the Z60 Recall… bullshit. I’m in on Tuesday (2/28) to Kelly Jeep in Lynnfield, MA USA for a final chance for Jeep to keep me as a customer… this is my 3rd Jeep (1995 Wranger, 2005 Grand Cherokee, now 2021 Gladiator) my most reliable was the 1995 Wrangler! Isn’t that something!! I need help, if Kelly Jeep does not make this right I’m OUT.

I am getting my engine replaced through insurance. It is a bad engine and Jeep will not do anything about it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Coolant won't corrode everything. In fact, it has corrosion inhibiters. It has to be safe in aluminum. That means you could soak almost any part in it without issue. The problem is that it's not great at lubricating and displaces the oil. Coolant in oil will either drop to the bottom, or be mixed in changing the color - it can form an emulsion. And that ruins the oil's ability to lubricate.

Whatever you do, ONLY ever add OAT coolant and do NOT go by the color - read the label. Colors don't mean much any more, HOAT can look like OAT and mixing can be a disaster.
Read the container and if it doesn't specifically say OAT (NOT HOAT!) it's ok. If it says anything except OAT, don't use it regardless of color.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

@BornCDN had 2 engine oil samples sent to FINNING for analysis and both are very telling that the internals are wearing at extreme levels.

Those of us with sound engines, please look at your own reports, compare and comment. I’m only going to highlight the metals.

The mileage ON THE OIL in both reports are:
Odometer 117344k km (73k miles)
-(1st sample) 4806k km (2986 miles) oil changed.

Odometer 121200k km (75k miles) oil not changed.
-(2nd sample) 3856k km (2400k miles)

-IRON 114, 56 (this should be around 15)
-CHROMIUM 12, 7 (should be 0.4)!!!
-ALUMINUM 20, 11 (should be 1)
-COPPER 6, 3 (should be 0.8 - 1)

Both analysis reports show glycol volume in the oil sample:
(1) .0017 (2) .0066

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