Discussion: 2020 Ford Raptor or 2020 Jeep Gladiator

[MOPAR Boy]

I'd recommend you go with the 2020 Ford Raptor, with its impending all new 7.3L monster V8, churning out nearly infinite HP and torque! This is why Raptors have recently gone from always having a second sticker “market adjusted price,” to now literally plummeting in price, as it’s little 6-banger sewing machine motor is soon to be happily relegated to the junk heap of history.



Keep in mind the Jeep Gladiator equipped with a diesel motor will not be available until CY2020, assuming no slips or EPA problems (rots of ruck here!), according to the FCA Exec statement at the 2018 LA Auto Show. “CY2020” availability is careful code speak, and this could essentially mean Gladiator with diesel arrival could be as late as Dec 31, 2020, and still remain within the bounds of what the FCA Exec stated. No doubt about it, the Gladiator car equipped with the oil burner option will be a MY2021, so not a MY2020.



If size is critical for you, you may want to take a different direction altogether, and consider the 2019 Subaru Forester, with its all new Dual Mode X-Drive V2.0. This way, you could sell your daily commuter, and use the Subi for both commuting duty and weekend off-road fun. Lots of good choices here, but only You can decide.

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[furrymurray]

Thanks but....
I wouldn’t own an EPA Diesel anyway - your link just points out why the max tow rating is for the Pentastar 3.6. I’m saying that if the Pentastar 3.6 is still only 285hp, it will not have the cajones to tow anything high profile like a travel trailer in the mountains and hills...
Been there - done that... Check the other thread.

Its not just the 3.6. Its the 3.6 mated to the 8 speed automatic. Its a total different animal than whats in that JK.

 

[sfadchi]

The live valve shocks ride amazing, and the truck as a whole is killer. However, with what you're describing you should get the Gladiator. Raptor is wide as hell and meant to be a high speed desert runner, not for tight trails and low speeds (it does low speeds well for it size, but still). The Raptor will probably never see a V8 again, but a tune on the EcoBoost and I'm getting around 550HP/650TQ. I love my truck, but it's meant to do different things than the Jeep. Trust me I know, I traded in my JLUR on my 2018 Raptor, and just last month traded in my 2018 Raptor on a 2019.

 

[sfadchi]

I'd recommend you go with the 2020 Ford Raptor, with its impending all new 7.3L monster V8, churning out nearly infinite HP and torque! This is why Raptors have recently gone from always having a second sticker “market adjusted price,” to now literally plummeting in price, as it’s little 6-banger sewing machine motor is soon to be happily relegated to the junk heap of history.

LOL I see what you did there!

 

[homerun]

Have read so far, indicates that the 3.6 Pentastar in the JT will be unchanged from the JK/JL 3.6 Pentastar.

But the 3.6 was changed for the JL. It is an updated 3.6 over the one that was in the JK. Now that we have our facts correct I will say the change is not overly significant and probably irrelevant to the conversation, but the fact is the engine was reworked for the JL and slightly improved on over the JK. I agree with others, its the new transmission that makes a bigger difference. That said I don't tow much and don't know if these updates will be enough for your purposes or not.

 

[Kurtj29]

Its not just the 3.6. Its the 3.6 mated to the 8 speed automatic. Its a total different animal than whats in that JK.

I came from a V8 Chevy to a 2018 JLUR as my first and so far only Jeep. The 3.6L/8 speed combination is not very strong. I traded my JLUR in for a lot of reasons, one of the biggest was the 3.6L/8 speed combination. I live in Washington, do a lot of skiing and driving in the mountains. Just driving the JLUR - the 3.6 was challenged to maintain 65-70, while all the full size pickups were crusing at 75 going over the mountain passes. I can’t even imagine trying to tow anything - I would say - don’t try. I traded the JLUR in for a 2018 GMC Sierra with a 6.2L V8 - my gosh I love that truck every time I step on the gas. I do a lot of high speed highway cruising and a Jeep is just the wrong vehicle for that. From my experience - towing is going to be a nightmare with the 3.6L.

 

[furrymurray]

I came from a V8 Chevy to a 2018 JLUR as my first and so far only Jeep. The 3.6L/8 speed combination is not very strong. I traded my JLUR in for a lot of reasons, one of the biggest was the 3.6L/8 speed combination. I live in Washington, do a lot of skiing and driving in the mountains. Just driving the JLUR - the 3.6 was challenged to maintain 65-70, while all the full size pickups were crusing at 75 going over the mountain passes. I can’t even imagine trying to tow anything - I would say - don’t try. I traded the JLUR in for a 2018 GMC Sierra with a 6.2L V8 - my gosh I love that truck every time I step on the gas. I do a lot of high speed highway cruising and a Jeep is just the wrong vehicle for that. From my experience - towing is going to be a nightmare with the 3.6L.

I find that hard to believe unless you got a lemon. I guess we will have to see since the truck is not out yet.

 

[Kurtj29]

I find that hard to believe unless you got a lemon. I guess we will have to see since the truck is not out yet.

I don’t think it was a lemon - it was a pretty good from a quality perspective. For me the two biggest reasons were the weak engine and the constant fight with the Jeep on the Interstate to keep the dang thing straight down the road. After driving 2 hours out to do a hike, then hiking for 3 or 4 hours - climbing up and down some mountain - I was not happy getting back down to the parking lot realizing I was going to have to fight the Jeep all the way home - it was just too tiring to drive - it was all over the road. Maybe the longer wheelbase of the Gladiator will help. (Does it have a longer wheel base than the JLUR?). Those were the 2 reasons for me trading it in after 7 months and 10K miles. I tried to make it work. Just was not the vehicle I needed.

BTW - the steering was tight on my Jeep, I know there are problems with shake and vagueness - mine did not have that - if you turned the wheel the Jeep moved, but the Jeep was just unable to track down the road. My GMC and Chevy pickups just go straight down the road, I really don’t have to “keep it” going straight. Much nicer to drive.

Anyway that’s my opinion, for what it’s worth.

 

[drogers]

I don’t think it was a lemon - it was a pretty good from a quality perspective. For me the two biggest reasons were the weak engine and the constant fight with the Jeep on the Interstate to keep the dang thing straight down the road. After driving 2 hours out to do a hike, then hiking for 3 or 4 hours - climbing up and down some mountain - I was not happy getting back down to the parking lot realizing I was going to have to fight the Jeep all the way home - it was just too tiring to drive - it was all over the road. Maybe the longer wheelbase of the Gladiator will help. (Does it have a longer wheel base than the JLUR?). Those were the 2 reasons for me trading it in after 7 months and 10K miles. I tried to make it work. Just was not the vehicle I needed.

BTW - the steering was tight on my Jeep, I know there are problems with shake and vagueness - mine did not have that - if you turned the wheel the Jeep moved, but the Jeep was just unable to track down the road. My GMC and Chevy pickups just go straight down the road, I really don’t have to “keep it” going straight. Much nicer to drive.

Anyway that’s my opinion, for what it’s worth.

Sounds even more like you got a lemon - heck, my JK could cruise through mountain passes at 75 and it had the crappy old 3.8! I never once felt like I had to ‘fight’ my Jeep on a long road trip...

 

[homerun]

To be fair a SFA vehicle always feels like you fight to keep it straight until you get use to it. Takes an adjustment period.

 

[RegalZ]

Hi Everyone, Thought I this would spur a lot of good advice. I have declared 2020 the year of my new truck. I was looking at a 2020 ford Raptor as there are rumors a v8 could happen for it. BUT then I saw the new Jeep Gladiator and the 2020 model will get a diesel engine. My dad just got a new F-150 Platinum and I love how it drives and handles, so I suspect the Raptor will be the same if not better given the adaptive Fox shocks. Here is a little about me to help with your guidance.
I am 30 and live in a CA, no kids, but a dog that goes everywhere with me. I work a 9-5 in the city, but spend most of my free time and vacation in the mountains or desert, camping, hiking, ADV, etc. The truck wouldn't be my daily commuter, but my weekend escape from the city vehicle so I am not really worried about gas mileage. The big things I need the truck for are hauling gear or my bike and a buddy's around to different trails. Going pretty much where I want for camping or hiking and not worrying about getting stuck. I feel like the last one might be the biggest con of the Raptor, that thing is a beast and wide AF so I know there are some trails where I won't fit width wise and a pain to park if I need to find drive it in the city(my apt building has reserved spaces so not an issue there). The biggest con of the Gladiator, is that I am not a Jeep Wrangler person at all. So worried I am gonna get sucked into that culture whenever I stop at a campsite or out on a trail.
Lastly, before the conversation about buying a cheaper truck and upgrading it yourself comes to mind, please remember I live in the city and don't have access to a garage. Also, the Raptor has been maintaining crazy high re-sale value, so why mess with a good thing. Also, know the Gladiator hasn't rolled out yet, but I know there are more than a few people on here that have inside info

I have a ‘15 JKU, a ‘17 Raptor, a ‘18 JL, and a ‘19 JLU. I tow 40 or so bails of hay once or twice a year on an aluminum trailer. I use the Raptor at my cabin which is 10+ miles of groomed dirt/gravel roads from the highway and I absolutely love it. That said, I recently purchased a condo in Denver and I can’t park the Raptor in the parking garage because it’s just too wide. As soon as the JT is available I will trade in the Raptor for the JT based on my experience with both the Raptor and the JLU. I never owned the v8 Raptor but the v6 ecoboost never disappoints. Also, I can say that even though the 3.6L Pentastar is in both the JKU and the JLU, the newer version is an absolute joy to drive. As far as “Jeep Culture” goes, I’ve been a Jeep Wrangler owner for almost 4 years now and have never felt any compulsion to join in. I was a firm member of GDI in college and I really don’t feel compelled by Jeepers or otherwise to participate in anything, but if you are susceptible to joining in or suffer from FOMO, then by all means, be careful

Finally, I would think of it this way. If you find yourself following a lot of “influencers” on instagram who have an obvious BBL, by all means, go with the Raptor, it’s hips do not lie. If, however, you can appreciate a good BBL, but find yourself wondering how you are going to explain the absurd proportions to your friends and family, I’d say go with the JT, because trucks, unlike women, do not hold it against you when you trade them in.

 

[Kurtj29]

Sounds even more like you got a lemon - heck, my JK could cruise through mountain passes at 75 and it had the crappy old 3.8! I never once felt like I had to ‘fight’ my Jeep on a long road trip...

Maybe, have not thought about that. It did not seem like it had a problem. I do demand a lot from my vehicles, I had a Porsche and a Jaguar before my Chevy so I like my vehicles fast. From what I have read - the Raptor sounds like a great truck. But I picked up the end of the model run 2018 before the brand new 2019 GMC’s came out, I was able to get it for $12K under MSRP. A Raptor would have run me $15K to $17K more. I love pictures so here is one...

 

[furrymurray]

Anyway that’s my opinion, for what it’s worth.

I value your opinion and it has a place here. All I am saying is that I find your experience with the JL odd. I think this is the first time I have read that someone had trouble holding elevated speeds and keeping the thing on the road. Hell, my TJ could do those things all day long and not breathe heavy once. Now it wasn't no V8 but I didn't have trouble with the things you say. Thank you for your input anyways.

 

[Big-Foot]

But the 3.6 was changed for the JL. It is an updated 3.6 over the one that was in the JK. Now that we have our facts correct I will say the change is not overly significant and probably irrelevant to the conversation, but the fact is the engine was reworked for the JL and slightly improved on over the JK. I agree with others, its the new transmission that makes a bigger difference. That said I don't tow much and don't know if these updates will be enough for your purposes or not.

Seeings how you seem to have all the facts, why don’t you provide the FACTS about what was changed or updated in the Pentastar 3.6 V6 .....
Thanks!

 

[homerun]

Seeings how you seem to have all the facts, why don’t you provide the FACTS about what was changed or updated in the Pentastar 3.6 V6 .....
Thanks!

I don't have all the facts, hence I start threads with the phrase "educate me on..." see here: https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/educate-me-on-wheels.14173/

What I don't do is act like a dick when someone calls me out for having incorrect facts. I take that as a learning opportunity, if you look through the threads enough I am sure you can find some mistakes I have made. Maybe it just seems like I have all the facts when compared to what I assume is an extremely low amount of knowledge you possess. Granted I don't know you, but in my experience those who are quickest to be defensive and insult others almost universally are hiding their own ignorance.

Now on to you questions. What is different in the 3.6 of the JL vs the 3.6 in the JK? Most of the articles written about the changes were from 2015/2016. That is because 2016 was the first year the upgraded Pentastar was used. It was first used in the G.C. and the Durango. FCA did not switch over to the upgrade 3.6 in the wrangler until the JK to JL change was made. This is noted below and I highlighted it in purple for you. So while you are reading about the changes keep in mind that the FACTS were written before the JL was produced and therefor not directly referenced, however the JL does indeed have the upgraded 3.6. This is also evidence in the fact the the JL calls for 5 quarts of 0W20 while the JK called for 6 quarts of 5W20. The newer engine uses a full quart less of oil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Pentastar_engine
Pentastar upgrade[edit]
For 2016, FCA released an updated version of the 3.6 L engine for the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango. This engine now featured two-stage variable valve lift (VVL), a cooled EGR, a new intake manifold, new fuel injectors, and new ignition coils. It also features upgrades to the variable valve timing (VVT) system, an increased compression ratio (11.3:1), lower internal friction and lower weight. These improvements help to increase power as well as efficiency.[10] The new version, however, has lost its flex-fuel capability.

Code Displacement Bore Stroke Years Power SAE Torque SAE
3.6 L; 219.9 cu in (3,604 cc) 96 mm (3.78 in) 83 mm (3.27 in) 2016– 295 hp (220 kW; 299 PS) 260 lb⋅ft (353 N⋅m)
Applications[edit]

• 2016-present Jeep Grand Cherokee
• 2016-present Dodge Durango
• 2016-present Chrysler Pacifica
• 2018-present Jeep Wrangler JL

https://www.pentastars.com/engines/PUG.php
It has revised heads, new cam phasing, two-level valve lift, and friction reduction, but not direct injection — at least, not yet.

Torque was increased by over 15% at engine speeds below 3,000 rpm for better drivability and less shifting; gas mileage increased by over 6%. On the Grand Cherokee, horsepower rose from 290 to 295, as well.

The revised engine uses two-speed variable valve lift; this reduces “pumping work” at low speeds, for a fuel economy gain of up to 2.7%, without sacrificing top-end power. A new torque-driven cam phasing valve timing system cuts oil demand, and increases its range from 50° to 70°, cutting knock during hot starts and increasing the ability to use the stop-start system. The valve timing system was also recalibrated to take advantage of the new intake manifold.

According to Chrysler, “Passive accelerator application is met with measured throttle response; hard inputs trigger aggressive starts.”

The upgraded Pentastar (PUG) has cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) to eliminate knocks and increase efficiency by cutting pumping losses further. A new intake manifold with longer runners enabled the torque boost, and the compression ratio was boosted from 10.2:1 to 11.3:1. The heads include high-tumble intake ports and shrouded combustion chambers. New fuel injectors have eight holes for better atomization.

As predicted, various measures were also taken to reduce internal friction. These include using HG-R1 on the timing drive guide-faces (the new Pentastar is the first production engine to use this low-friction material), new valve springs, low-tension piston rings, and piston pins with a diamond-like carbon coating.

New 100-millijoule high-energy ignition coils are used with platinum spark plugs.

Redesigned components reduce overall engine weight, despite 13 pounds of added content, with the lightest Pentastar coming in at 326 lb (vs the original at 330 lb). Weight was cut partly by using a “thin-wall strategy” to reduce the thickness of some die-cast components. Windage-tray weight was slashed by 19% and front-cover weight was cut by 5%. Two-piece oil pans were eliminated, with the exception of Trail Rated vehicles. The main bearings and crankshaft pins were trimmed, cutting six pounds and reducing friction.

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