What’s your price Point?

[Dryfly24]

Yup. I think the fact that you're even open to buying a different vehicle disqualifies you in terms of what Jeep is thinking. My feeling, based on a bit more than simple opinion, is that Jeep is marketing this to the "Gladiator or NOTHING!" type buyer. There will be some cross-shoppers that they reel in, but they want to convince you that the JT is not just the best choice, they want you to believe it's the only choice.

Lol, Not sure that the fact that I am open to buying something else automatically disqualifies me or anyone else from buying it.

Maybe you’re right and this truck is only for those who think this is the holy grail of vehicles and can’t live without one so are willing to hand over a blank check, but I really don’t think that’s what they had in mind.

If it is, so be it. Plenty of car manufacturers out there that cater to the luxury crowd only and plenty more that are competitive, that’s fine. Like I said I’ll look elsewhere. It’s just a truck.

My life has been pretty damn good without one up until now. I’m sure it’ll continue to be just as good without one going forward...

Sponsored

 

[jayd33]

Yup. I think the fact that you're even open to buying a different vehicle disqualifies you in terms of what Jeep is thinking. My feeling, based on a bit more than simple opinion, is that Jeep is marketing this to the "Gladiator or NOTHING!" type buyer. There will be some cross-shoppers that they reel in, but they want to convince you that the JT is not just the best choice, they want you to believe it's the only choice.

I think misanthrope and dryfly24 both present valid points. For one, there appears to be a number of folks who've never owned Jeep or trucks in the past and are not planning on owning any trucks in the future outside of the JT. And two, it appears likely the Overland/Rubicon trims may alienate a good number of folks and turn them to competitors. Me personally, I believe the target audience is 30-50 yr olds in the $130k+ household income range for the Overland/Rubicon trims. And Jeep will still do incredibly well selling both of those trims to the 10+ million households who are in the 100k-250k income range regardless of what the competitors sell.

 

[misanthrope]

Lol, Not sure that the fact that I am open to buying something else automatically disqualifies me or anyone else from buying it.

Maybe you’re right and this truck is only for those who think this is the holy grail of vehicles and can’t live without one, but I really don’t think that’s what they had in mind.

If it is, so be it. Plenty of car manufacturers out there that cater to the luxury crowd only and that’s fine. Like I said I’ll look elsewhere. It’s just a truck. My life has been pretty damn good without one up untI’ll now. I’m sure it’ll continue to be just fine without one going forward...

Agreed, and the more folks that take a rational, emotion-controlled approach to this Jeep (and any other car, for that matter), the better chance we have of keeping car makers working for us, the consumer, and not the other way around.

I hope I'm way off. I hope FCA has a soul and Jeep isn't just all about marketing and dollar signs. I hope someone, even if they work in the bowels of R+D or accounting or record keeping, someone remembers Jeep's humble yet remarkable beginnings. Remembers how GIs shipped these things home piece by piece from the European theater and when they returned, the pride of our nation, reassembled them and drove them daily. How the original HMMWV Willy's became the Jeep, became the CJs and the XJs that are still proudly modded and driven to this day. Remembers that, even as they dipped their toes in the luxury field with the SJ and the WJ, they continued to build every man TJs and (ugh) YJs. Remembers that the Wrangler's beauty lies in its capability and its accessibility, in that most egalitarian of all American Ideals: for the many, not the few.

I hope this is the case, and that there will be a JT for everyone. I mean, I know it's feeling like a stretch, but there is still a JL for everyone (at least everyone that can afford a $30k car with few amenities). C'mon, says the reasonable man, it's a Jeep, after all. It shouldn't be out of the reach (or reason) of anyone.

 

[Etoimos]

I may be in the target market also. I have the money ready and willingly earmarked for a new truck. But there is no way I’ll give them anything approaching 60k just on principal alone. That’s a ridiculous amount. I’m drawing the line right around low to mid 50’s for a well equipped Rubi. If they can’t or won’t do that, I’ll happily move on...

That is where I am at as well. I could afford a JT in the $60s, but I'm not going to pay that because the value is not there. There are other trucks out there that are almost as good off road as the JT will be, but for $15k-$20k less. There are a lot of people that would find it a much better deal to use that extra cash on a new boat/camper/toys and just go with the "lesser" truck.

I would love to see a well optioned Rubi in the low to mid $50ks. But that would give me a real problem: JT or JL? JT seems like a no-brainer, right? So much more capability for the same price. I think a lot of potential JL buyers would see it this way, therefore Jeep would be cannibalizing JL sales. The only way for Jeep to avoid this is to price the JT, which is more vehicle, higher than the JL. So, logically, the JT will be just an incremental price point above the JT, ergo, $3500 at the lowest end to $7000 at the money-grabbingest end above the JL: $57k-$61k for a well equipped Gladiator.

RETURN OF THE WET BLANKET!

I don't think it is a no-brianer. I highly doubt any of my Jeep'n buddies would pick the JT orver a JL as it does not meet their needs. As good at the JT will be off road, it will never match a Wrangler off road. So, depending on your point of view, the JT has less capability. I think that is why Jeep is not worried about cannibalizing their own sales. Both vehicles appeal to people with different needs. If I did not want a vehicle to pull an off road trailer and my wife's horse trailer, the JL would be what I'd buy. Actually, I'd keep my JKUR and just buy a full size truck to pull the horse trailer. The JK can pull the off road trailer, just not very well out here in the mountains.

I also don't think the "more vehicle" mind set is correct either. Look at the other manufactures out there, their SUV is more expensive than their truck on the same platform. Interior fit and finish costs a lot. Granted, the Jeep does not have a lot of fit and finish in the back end.

And, to add water to my blanket, I think $57k for a Rubi will get you an auto trans, cold weather and maybe the tow package, LEDs and some extra safety add-ons. That's about it. Load it to the gills with everything shy of the diesel (another $4k+ in my opinion) and a Rubi will cost (someone else, obviously) in the neighborhood of $65k (with the diesel pushing $70k fully loaded). And Jeep'll sell 75k a year without really trying.

I agree the diesel option is going to be roughly $4500 (that is the cost in the Ram for this motor). What I don't know is if that is going to include the auto trans that the diesel will require. It does in the Ram (the gasser and diesel use different autos), but the Ram already comes with an auto. But I can't see the Jeep diesel being $4500 plus the $2000 auto option. I can't see them selling very many if the all in price is an extra $6500.

This isn't about competing with any other vehicle. For those who are cross-shopping, the JT probably isn't for you. It's not the value of a Colorado or a Ranger. It's not the all-out badass of the Raptor. It's not even the mall-friendly Wrangler, though I'm sure that's where many of them will spend their time. It's a class-unto-itself stand-alone vehicle. You don't trade in your daily driver for it, you add it to your collection. Or, you live beyond your means and use it every day in spite of its price, or, more likely, because of its price.

I think that is a little bit of fan boy speak. The JT is most definitely competing with other vehicles. Both in the minds of the consumers and Jeep. Just look at their marketing. Best in class this, best in class that. When you read the fine print on their site, they say that segment is the Midsize 4x4 Crew Cab. That's Chevy, Ford, Toyota, and Nissan. Those brands all have a tuck (or will) that can compete with the JT in the off road world (compete, but would not win lol). 98% of the people that buy a JT Rubi will not need all of it's capabilities, so buying another truck that is just a step down off road for a lot less money is not that huge of a deal.

And trading in my daily driver for this to become my new daily driver is exactly what I plan on doing. Granted, my DD right now is a rock crawling JKUR on 37s.

The JT Gladiator was never meant to be someone's work truck, or even their DD/only vehicle. That's my interpretation of "lifestyle vehicle". One you could live without, but it's so awesome you just can't live without it.

The Wrangler is already a lifestyle vehicle and while expensive, it is still a daily driver for hundreds of thousand of people out there. Of course Jeep could be targeting the JT as an Elitist vehicle, but in the $70k range I think they are going to lose out to a lot nicer vehicles. The "off road rugged" segment is much smaller that the "go fast" or "fancy pants" segments. Going this route would mean Jeep is targeting the niche group of an already niche group. If that is in fact their plan, they might want to look at the Hummer a little closer.

This thing is not going to carry the status symbol that the Brute conversions did. It is just not going to be unique enough.

Yup. I think the fact that you're even open to buying a different vehicle disqualifies you in terms of what Jeep is thinking. My feeling, based on a bit more than simple opinion, is that Jeep is marketing this to the "Gladiator or NOTHING!" type buyer.

Lol, that's funny right there. If Jeep was thinking along those lines, they'd just price it at $100k and all the Gladiators or NOTHING people would buy it anyways... because they are not looking at anything else.

 

[misanthrope]

That is where I am at as well. I could afford a JT in the $60s, but I'm not going to pay that because the value is not there. There are other trucks out there that are almost as good off road as the JT will be, but for $15k-$20k less. There are a lot of people that would find it a much better deal to use that extra cash on a new boat/camper/toys and just go with the "lesser" truck.



I don't think it is a no-brianer. I highly doubt any of my Jeep'n buddies would pick the JT orver a JL as it does not meet their needs. As good at the JT will be off road, it will never match a Wrangler off road. So, depending on your point of view, the JT has less capability. I think that is why Jeep is not worried about cannibalizing their own sales. Both vehicles appeal to people with different needs. If I did not want a vehicle to pull an off road trailer and my wife's horse trailer, the JL would be what I'd buy. Actually, I'd keep my JKUR and just buy a full size truck to pull the horse trailer. The JK can pull the off road trailer, just not very well out here in the mountains.

I also don't think the "more vehicle" mind set is correct either. Look at the other manufactures out there, their SUV is more expensive than their truck on the same platform. Interior fit and finish costs a lot. Granted, the Jeep does not have a lot of fit and finish in the back end.



I agree the diesel option is going to be roughly $4500 (that is the cost in the Ram for this motor). What I don't know is if that is going to include the auto trans that the diesel will require. It does in the Ram (the gasser and diesel use different autos), but the Ram already comes with an auto. But I can't see the Jeep diesel being $4500 plus the $2000 auto option. I can't see them selling very many if the all in price is an extra $6500.



I think that is a little bit of fan boy speak. The JT is most definitely competing with other vehicles. Both in the minds of the consumers and Jeep. Just look at their marketing. Best in class this, best in class that. When you read the fine print on their site, they say that segment is the Midsize 4x4 Crew Cab. That's Chevy, Ford, Toyota, and Nissan. Those brands all have a tuck (or will) that can compete with the JT in the off road world (compete, but would not win lol). 98% of the people that buy a JT Rubi will not need all of it's capabilities, so buying another truck that is just a step down off road for a lot less money is not that huge of a deal.

And trading in my daily driver for this to become my new daily driver is exactly what I plan on doing. Granted, my DD right now is a rock crawling JKUR on 37s.



The Wrangler is already a lifestyle vehicle and while expensive, it is still a daily driver for hundreds of thousand of people out there. Of course Jeep could be targeting the JT as an Elitist vehicle, but in the $70k range I think they are going to lose out to a lot nicer vehicles. The "off road rugged" segment is much smaller that the "go fast" or "fancy pants" segments. Going this route would mean Jeep is targeting the niche group of an already niche group. If that is in fact their plan, they might want to look at the Hummer a little closer.

This thing is not going to carry the status symbol that the Brute conversions did. It is just not going to be unique enough.



Lol, that's funny right there. If Jeep was thinking along those lines, they'd just price it at $100k and all the Gladiators or NOTHING people would buy it anyways... because they are not looking at anything else.

Okey dokey, we'll go point by point:

-Approximately 250,000 people did pay a premium for a Wrangler last year alone, and many of them well into the mid- to high $50ks, without the JT's "capabilities". There a many, many "better" SUVs out there for what the 90%+ use a Wrangler for, for less money, yet the Wrangler sells well.
-JT/JL cross shopping will absolutely be a problem if they are similarly priced. The capabilities of which I was referring were the everyday ones: hauling and towing, not crawling. I live on Long Island, and I can speculate with a reasonable degree of certainty that the hoards of Wranglers I pass never see any terrain more challenging than the beach. To have an open bed and superior towing anywhere on the eastern coastal areas, where around 36% of the American population lives, is definitely an increase in capability over any off road chops.
-The JT is "more": heavy duty Fox suspension and extended frame for the 5' bed, 400w power inverter, and far superior towing and hauling to name the obvious ones.
-Probably not a combined $6500 on the diesel/auto combo, but I never said it would be. Simply that an auto would most likely be required. Like the situation with the 2.0 on the JL: $1000 for the engine+$2000 for the required auto. $4000+ minimum for the diesel combo, when it finally arrives.
-Actually, not a fanboy of the JT. I see it's many shortcomings. Just a fanboy of simple economic principles: don't compete with yourself. GM learned it with Pontiac, Olds and Buick. Honda, Toyota and Nissan perfected the business model when they introduced Acura, Lexus and Infinity, respectively. I don't think it will be easy to get a JT into the $70k range, even with the diesel, but you can get a JL over $60, and that's pre-diesel as well (though you need the 2.0 and the Sky One Touch, neither of which will be available(?) on the JT, though the JT will have exclusive items like HD cooling and trailer brake control, bed liner, tonneau cover, etc). A JT priced like a JL will cannibalize JL sales.
-I know the JT will make an excellent DD, and if I get one that's what it will be. But that's because that's what it will have to be for me. I can't have a $60k toy. Many, many people can and do, though. Look at some of the vehicles listed on profiles on this and other forums for confirmation.
-At roughly 75-90k units sold per year, it will be pretty rare/exclusive. Demand will be high, and supply will be kept intentionally low (per FCA brass). This equation has only one outcome: high price
-I think you were being glib with your last point, "lol" and all. There is a price point at which any item becomes undesirable. At $100k the "Gladiator or nothing" crowd would have to opt for nothing or, more reasonably, leave the crowd.

When they released the JL, Jeep underestimated demand, which resulted in 3 price increases in the first 9 months. They will not make the same mistake with a vehicle that they see as a lower volume "expensive, intentionally so" opportunity.
The bottom line: they are waaaay better at this than you or me, so whatever they do will be researched and thought out to the nth degree. My estimates are not based on my own emotions, but on the demonstrated emotions of the American auto buying public. Very few JL buyers need the capabilities of the Wrangler, let alone the Rubi. Yet here they are, selling a quarter of a million units a year, at a price that many people consider "inflated" and "out of touch" with the public. The JT will sell well: it's awesome. Awesomeness comes at a price. The "competition" is not awesome, in my humble opinion: the Bison does nothing for me, the idea of a Ranger Raptor reminds me of the Focus RS: great in concept, but at the end of the day, it's a Focus, the Frontier is old and the Taco is a Taco (talk about fanboys...).

You want a 4 door convertible with a bed and Jeep dna? One choice, and when you're in a market of one, you get to set the price.

 

[bangolia]

Okey dokey, we'll go point by point:

-Approximately 250,000 people did pay a premium for a Wrangler last year alone, and many of them well into the mid- to high $50ks, without the JT's "capabilities". There a many, many "better" SUVs out there for what the 90%+ use a Wrangler for, for less money, yet the Wrangler sells well.
-JT/JL cross shopping will absolutely be a problem if they are similarly priced. The capabilities of which I was referring were the everyday ones: hauling and towing, not crawling. I live on Long Island, and I can speculate with a reasonable degree of certainty that the hoards of Wranglers I pass never see any terrain more challenging than the beach. To have an open bed and superior towing anywhere on the eastern coastal areas, where around 36% of the American population lives, is definitely an increase in capability over any off road chops.
-The JT is "more": heavy duty Fox suspension and extended frame for the 5' bed, 400w power inverter, and far superior towing and hauling to name the obvious ones.
-Probably not a combined $6500 on the diesel/auto combo, but I never said it would be. Simply that an auto would most likely be required. Like the situation with the 2.0 on the JL: $1000 for the engine+$2000 for the required auto. $4000+ minimum for the diesel combo, when it finally arrives.
-Actually, not a fanboy of the JT. I see it's many shortcomings. Just a fanboy of simple economic principles: don't compete with yourself. GM learned it with Pontiac, Olds and Buick. Honda, Toyota and Nissan perfected the business model when they introduced Acura, Lexus and Infinity, respectively. I don't think it will be easy to get a JT into the $70k range, even with the diesel, but you can get a JL over $60, and that's pre-diesel as well (though you need the 2.0 and the Sky One Touch, neither of which will be available(?) on the JT, though the JT will have exclusive items like HD cooling and trailer brake control, bed liner, tonneau cover, etc). A JT priced like a JL will cannibalize JL sales.
-I know the JT will make an excellent DD, and if I get one that's what it will be. But that's because that's what it will have to be for me. I can't have a $60k toy. Many, many people can and do, though. Look at some of the vehicles listed on profiles on this and other forums for confirmation.
-At roughly 75-90k units sold per year, it will be pretty rare/exclusive. Demand will be high, and supply will be kept intentionally low (per FCA brass). This equation has only one outcome: high price
-I think you were being glib with your last point, "lol" and all. There is a price point at which any item becomes undesirable. At $100k the "Gladiator or nothing" crowd would have to opt for nothing or, more reasonably, leave the crowd.

When they released the JL, Jeep underestimated demand, which resulted in 3 price increases in the first 9 months. They will not make the same mistake with a vehicle that they see as a lower volume "expensive, intentionally so" opportunity.
The bottom line: they are waaaay better at this than you or me, so whatever they do will be researched and thought out to the nth degree. My estimates are not based on my own emotions, but on the demonstrated emotions of the American auto buying public. Very few JL buyers need the capabilities of the Wrangler, let alone the Rubi. Yet here they are, selling a quarter of a million units a year, at a price that many people consider "inflated" and "out of touch" with the public. The JT will sell well: it's awesome. Awesomeness comes at a price. The "competition" is not awesome, in my humble opinion: the Bison does nothing for me, the idea of a Ranger Raptor reminds me of the Focus RS: great in concept, but at the end of the day, it's a Focus, the Frontier is old and the Taco is a Taco (talk about fanboys...).

You want a 4 door convertible with a bed and Jeep dna? One choice, and when you're in a market of one, you get to set the price.

It makes sense now he’s from Long Island!

Just pointing out they said 75k units in the first year. Where production starts in June. That’s 150k units year 2 and growing I’m sure.

3500 over jl or I as well as 99% of others are out.

For someone who says he “hopes it will reasonable” you certainly berate anyone who thinks it will be. You act like you are the person at FCa who is responsible for over pricing the JT and trying to justify keeping your job. Not a good look just stop.

The wet blanket strikes!

 

[misanthrope]

It makes sense now he’s from Long Island!

Just pointing out they said 75k units in the first year. Where production starts in June. That’s 150k units year 2 and growing I’m sure.

3500 over jl or I as well as 99% of others are out.

For someone who says he “hopes it will reasonable” you certainly berate anyone who thinks it will be. You act like you are the person at FCa who is responsible for over pricing the JT and trying to justify keeping your job. Not a good look just stop.

The wet blanket strikes!

Maybe a wet snowflake...not one "beratement" anywhere in my post (except where I pointed out the "lol", which was, in and of itself, a beratement.) If you actually read Keith's (@Etoimos) well written post, you would realize he is more than capable of speaking up for himself, which I'm sure he will. As an aside, FCA and Jeep have already stated that their sales goals for the JT are below 100k per year. So, maybe you're not so sure?
Your veiled insult ("...he's from Long Island!") is far more aggressive than anything I wrote, and rather inaccurate, as I currently live on LI, but certainly don't identify as being from here.
Finally, your assertion that my writing is "Not a good look" or that I should "...just stop" is entirely unwarranted, uninvited, and antithetical to the purpose of this forum: to openly share views and ideas in a communal space where we can all learn from each other. Your references to my "hope it will be reasonable" and "The Wet Blanket" comments smack of trolling, as you got that from a different post entirely.

Perhaps you should actually add something of value to the conversation, or, as you so eloquently put it, "...just stop."

P.s.- it will be $3500+ over the JL, and that will still be reasonable.

 

[steffen707]

You don't trade in your daily driver for it, you add it to your collection.

You're right. My 2008 Grand Caravan aint worth JACK, so i'll probably keep it in my collection.

 

[steffen707]

The wet blanket strikes!

Sorry Misanthrope is already the wet blanket. You can be Kaptin Killjoy?

 

[bangolia]

Maybe a wet snowflake...not one "beratement" anywhere in my post (except where I pointed out the "lol", which was, in and of itself, a beratement.) If you actually read Keith's (@Etoimos) well written post, you would realize he is more than capable of speaking up for himself, which I'm sure he will. As an aside, FCA and Jeep have already stated that their sales goals for the JT are below 100k per year. So, maybe you're not so sure?
Your veiled insult ("...he's from Long Island!") is far more aggressive than anything I wrote, and rather inaccurate, as I currently live on LI, but certainly don't identify as being from here.
Finally, your assertion that my writing is "Not a good look" or that I should "...just stop" is entirely unwarranted, uninvited, and antithetical to the purpose of this forum: to openly share views and ideas in a communal space where we can all learn from each other. Your references to my "hope it will be reasonable" and "The Wet Blanket" comments smack of trolling, as you got that from a different post entirely.

Perhaps you should actually add something of value to the conversation, or, as you so eloquently put it, "...just stop."

P.s.- it will be $3500+ over the JL, and that will still be reasonable.

Whatever gets you to sleep at night. I’m not the one coming behind everyone’s pricing post saying they are wrong. Just not very “communal”. But I’m sure you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

Ps enjoy your 70% tax in NY.

 

[Dryfly24]

This truck will most certainly be my daily driver. And I’m sure it will be for a whole boat load of people that buy it...

 

[5JeepsAz]

I think misanthrope and dryfly24 both present valid points. For one, there appears to be a number of folks who've never owned Jeep or trucks in the past and are not planning on owning any trucks in the future outside of the JT. And two, it appears likely the Overland/Rubicon trims may alienate a good number of folks and turn them to competitors. Me personally, I believe the target audience is 30-50 yr olds in the $130k+ household income range for the Overland/Rubicon trims. And Jeep will still do incredibly well selling both of those trims to the 10+ million households who are in the 100k-250k income range regardless of what the competitors sell.

But why market it? Those folks buy what they want and don't need mass marketing. This thing almost went Superbowl. This thing is known by everyone I've talked to remotely connected. Even diamonds have an entry level price.

 

[misanthrope]

Whatever gets you to sleep at night. I’m not the one coming behind everyone’s pricing post saying they are wrong. Just not very “communal”. But I’m sure you are right and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong.

Ps enjoy your 70% tax in NY.

Not everyone.
Some state has to subsidize the Carolinas now that cigarettes are illegal everywhere...

 

[misanthrope]

But why market it? Those folks buy what they want and don't need mass marketing. This thing almost went Superbowl. This thing is known by everyone I've talked to remotely connected. Even diamonds have an entry level price.

Gotta market a new, mass produced vehicle (kind of?). I will absolutely grant that peeps in AZ have a greater interest in this Jeep, but NO ONE that I know knows anything about the JT, and that includes most dealers I've spoken with (O.K., they know a little). The Super Bowl thing kinda makes a point I hadn't even thought of: The JL was marketed during the game last year. The JT ad never made it to the game, or TV at all.
The diamond analogy is a good one: those who know the 3 Cs pay top dollar for quality. Those who don't get jobbed for glass.

 

[5JeepsAz]

Gotta market a new, mass produced vehicle (kind of?). I will absolutely grant that peeps in AZ have a greater interest in this Jeep, but NO ONE that I know knows anything about the JT, and that includes most dealers I've spoken with (O.K., they know a little). The Super Bowl thing kinda makes a point I hadn't even thought of: The JL was marketed during the game last year. The JT ad never made it to the game, or TV at all.
The diamond analogy is a good one: those who know the 3 Cs pay top dollar for quality. Those who don't get jobbed for glass.

This is an historic, directional decision for Jeep. If they price it high for that class of people, it's the roaring twenties all over again. If they have entry level, then it lasted for a hundred years like diamonds. Debeers all over again.

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