DPF code (engine light) at 55K

[Schnee]

After my last post, the service department called me back to report the repairs were completed -- several days ahead of their original end-of-week forecast.

Here are the pertinent details from the invoice:

CHECKED FOR DTC'S AND HAVE P2002-00-DIESEL PARTICULARE FILTER EFFICIENCY BELOW THREASHOLD. CHECKED FOR SOFTWARE UPDATES AND TSB'S RELATED TO THE DTC'S AND NO UPDATES OR TSB'S ARE AVAILABLE. CHECKED THE DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) FOR DAMAGE AND FOUND THE DIESEL PARTICULATE FILTER (DPF) HAS FAILED INTERNALLY. RECOMMEND REPLACING THE DPF AND RECHECK.
REPLACED THE DPF AND VERIFIED THE REPAIR.

QTY FP NUMBER DESCRIPTION UNIT PRICE
1 68328978-AA CLAMP EXH 14029007 WARRANTY
1 68533313-AA GASKET EX 14062002 WARRANTY
1 68400397-AA GASKET EX 14062002 WARRANTY
3 6104386-AA BOLT HEX 14074002 WARRANTY
1 68146718-AA SEAL TURB 14072009 WARRANTY
1 68508878-AB CONVERTER 14070004 WARRANTY
1 68508878-AB CORE RETURN WARRANTY
...
WHILE PERFORMING INSPECTION FOUND 1/2 AND 1/3 EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE SENSORS TO BE SEIZED IN THE DPF. PLEASE REPLACE BOTH AXHUAST GAS TEMPERATURE SENSORS AND ADVISE.
REPLACED BOTH SENSORS.

QTY FP NUMBER DESCRIPTION UNIT PRICE
1 68372817-AB SENSOR EX 14070020 113.63
1 68408957-AB SENSOR EX 14070020 88.31
...
SS SHOP SUPPLIES AND HAZARDOUS WASTE 12.00

TOTAL LABOR.... 125.00
TOTAL PARTS.... 201.94
MISC CHG. 12.00
TAX 35.08
TOTAL INVOICE $ 374.02

------

At this point, I'm waiting for a call back from Jeep Wave on my appeal to cover the exhaust gas temperature sensors.

I asked the service person what was actually "wrong" with the DPF -- cracked? clogged? something else? She didn't know and there was no detail on the invoice.

But at just over 55K miles, I've got a new DPF core and a couple new exaust gas temp sensors.

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[Lost1wing]

It looks like you have some hope get the sensors covered.

I hope your 3.0 is better on emissions equipment than my Duramax. 5 def reservoirs, 2 nox sensors and one 9th injector. Most failed after my warranty.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I had my DPF replaced at 52K miles. It was broken/cracked internally.

All has been good since other than the dealer didn't re-install all of the clamps/fasteners and the rubber mount. I have only put 5K miles on it over the past year though.

 

[Chadnutz]

It looks like the sensors were stuck in their bosses. That is stainless on stainless and can often become stuck. If part A needs to be changed under warranty, and part B and C are seized in part A, it seems that the responsible party for A needs to cover the cost of replacing B and C as well. Beyond that, B and C are integral to the emissions control system and the engine would not pass a certification test if either of those sensors failed. They didn't fail because the fault was in DPF efficiency, not open/short circuit or suspect temperature measurement. In this case I don't think they failed, they just can't get them out.

I'm guessing you have soot in your tailpipe?

 

[CrazyCooter]

Had 73K mile truck in the shop last week with black soot in the tailpipe, but no codes as of yet.

 

[Schnee]

UPDATE: Got a follow-up call from the representative at Jeep Wave about my claim. He is trying to offer me an extended warranty with the "same value" as what I had to pay for the installation of the new exhaust gas sensors ($374), which will only amount to rental car coverage if my Rubi ever goes in for more service.

I told him I wasn't interested in an extended warranty and just wanted the charges for the installation of the new sensors either reversed by the dealership or reimbursed to me by Jeep. He made no promises but said he would call the dealership to see what could be done. Committed to call back within 2 business days. (English is not his first language, making it challenging to understand him.)

Not holding out much hope, at this point, but we'll see. Preparing to write another stern letter and potentially file in small claims court if they let it get to that.

 

[Chadnutz]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/40/appendix-A_to_part_1068


I. For exhaust emissions, emission-related components include any engine parts related to the following systems:

1. Air-induction system.
2. Fuel system.
3. Ignition system.
4. Exhaust gas recirculation systems.

II. The following parts are also considered emission-related components for exhaust emissions:

1. Aftertreatment devices.
2. Crankcase ventilation valves.
3. Sensors.
4. Electronic control units.

Per Google AI:


Under the federal EPA emissions warranty, major temperature sensors that are an integral part of the covered emission control systems are generally included in the 8-year/80,000-mile coverage.


Specific Coverage Details

• Major Emission Components: The primary parts specifically mandated for the extended 8-year/80,000-mile warranty include:
  • Catalytic converters (including SCR catalysts)
  • Diesel particulate filters (DPF)
  • Components related to the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system
  • The electronic emissions control unit (ECU/ECM) and on-board diagnostics (OBD) systems
• Related Sensors: The EPA has confirmed that related components such as pumps, injectors, and sensors that are part of these major systems are also considered to be within the definition of "specified major emission control components" and thus subject to the longer warranty period. Your owner's manual or warranty booklet should provide a complete list of all covered components.

Key Distinction
Most other general emission-related parts (such as the general oxygen sensors, PCV valves, etc.) are only covered for the shorter 2-year/24,000-mile federal warranty period. The extended warranty specifically applies to those sensors critical for the function of the major systems listed above, such as
NOxNO sub x end-sub
sensors, exhaust temperature sensors, and fuel temperature sensors, where their failure would significantly increase emissions.


In summary, if the temperature sensor in question is a critical component of one of the major emission systems (like the DPF, SCR, or EGR system), it should be covered under the 8-year/80,000-mile warranty. Consult your vehicle's specific owner's manual or an authorized dealership for confirmation.

 

[kb5zcr]

I would love to see how a small claims court case would turn out.
They may just pay you as it's cheaper than their lawyers flights.
Of course, there might be some agreement you signed in all the sales paperwork that says you have to go the arbitration route rather than court (I have no idea).

Please keep us informed how it works out.

 

[Sting-Gray Neutral Pres.]

Hey I found this thread searching for pretty much this same thing, as Jeep Cares tells me the 100k diesel powertrain warranty doesn't cover EGR issues and the emissions warranty only went to 5yr/50k. I looked deeper into the links, and i think Google AI is misleading you here. According to the EPA the only components that are federally extended to the 8 year /80k mark under the Clean Air Act are catalytic converters, ECU, and OBD computers.

https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air#:~:text=The Clean Air Act requires,for certain components); and

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf

Not what I was hoping to find, but there it is.

 

[Dougstdig]

The service manual troubleshooting for a P2002-00 code calls for inspecting the DPF for damage/cracks, and if none found to replace the PM sensor. Sounds like the mechanics are doing what they're supposed to do so far (assuming they actually inspected the DPF). Now if they jumped straight to replacing the PM sensor twice in the hopes it'd be an easier/cheaper fix, then they put the cart before the horse.

If the DPF checks out good and replacing the PM sensor doesn't clear the fault, then you're supposed to inspect for wiring/connection issues between the PM sensor and PCM, and if no problems are found to then replace the PCM.

Sounds like I’ll be calling RockHard 4x4 after all to gift myself and UggaDugga.

 

[Chadnutz]

Hey I found this thread searching for pretty much this same thing, as Jeep Cares tells me the 100k diesel powertrain warranty doesn't cover EGR issues and the emissions warranty only went to 5yr/50k. I looked deeper into the links, and i think Google AI is misleading you here. According to the EPA the only components that are federally extended to the 8 year /80k mark under the Clean Air Act are catalytic converters, ECU, and OBD computers.

https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/frequent-questions-related-transportation-air#:~:text=The Clean Air Act requires,for certain components); and

https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf

Not what I was hoping to find, but there it is.

the second link is from 2015. emissions regulations are getting tighter all the time. I will get a better answer tomorrow.

 

[Schnee]

...and i think Google AI is misleading you here.

Actually, I didn't use AI. I used the text of the regulation from the national archives. (I'm not a lawyer, but I can play one on TV.)

• Link to the current regulation: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-85/subpart-V/section-85.2103
• Llink to regulation at the time I took delivery: https://www.ecfr.gov/on/2022-03-01/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-85/subpart-V/section-85.2103

In either case the language is general enough to include "components which have been installed in or on the vehicle for the sole or primary purpose of reducing vehicle emissions."

Here's where AI comes in handy:

An exhaust gas temperature (EGT) sensor is crucial for the function of a DPF because it monitors the exhaust temperature, which is essential for the DPF's regeneration process.

Any reasonable person (including judge or arbitrator) should also conclude the sensors are integral components of the DPF/regen system and should therefore be covered. Two bad sensors seem pretty likely to have caused the DPF to eventually fail. Before the EPA regulations went in to effect in the 1980's requiring DPFs, EGT sensors weren't used on diesel engines.

 

[Dougstdig]

Had 73K mile truck in the shop last week with black soot in the tailpipe, but no codes as of yet.

I saw the same last night installing some Oracle rear bumper lights. I was pretty surprised as my 2008 Dodge Ram still doesn’t have a sooty pipe.

 

[Sting-Gray Neutral Pres.]

Actually, I didn't use AI. I used the text of the regulation from the national archives. (I'm not a lawyer, but I can play one on TV.)

• Link to the current regulation: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-85/subpart-V/section-85.2103
• Llink to regulation at the time I took delivery: https://www.ecfr.gov/on/2022-03-01/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-85/subpart-V/section-85.2103

In either case the language is general enough to include "components which have been installed in or on the vehicle for the sole or primary purpose of reducing vehicle emissions."

Here's where AI comes in handy:


Any reasonable person (including judge or arbitrator) should also conclude the sensors are integral components of the DPF/regen system and should therefore be covered. Two bad sensors seem pretty likely to have caused the DPF to eventually fail. Before the EPA regulations went in to effect in the 1980's requiring DPFs, EGT sensors weren't used on diesel engines.

I really appreciate these links. The current regulation you linked effective June 2024 is incredibly clear that everything related to emissions must be covered to 80,000 mi. The "at time of purchase" one that is valid for me as well I'm struggling to draw as clear of a message from. It talks about components generally rather than specifically for the period after 24k (as you pointed out), but then doesn't give any sort of time limit. Is it inferred that step 2 "any time during it's useful life" is the warranty period? If so what would that even mean?

I'm wondering if the older text active at purchase time relates back to a duration cap elsewhere in the CFR?

I know the Gen 2 ecodiesels are covered for all of this stuff that Jeep is not warrantying on Gen 3s through a special 125k warranty they added later due to cracked EGR coolers I believe.

I also wonder if the new text going into effect was part of FCA's decision to kill off the ecodiesel. The timing lines up perfectly.

 

[biodiesel]

I know the Gen 2 ecodiesels are covered for all of this stuff that Jeep is not warrantying on Gen 3s through a special 125k warranty they added later due to cracked EGR coolers I believe.

Let me clarify a few things. The EGR is covered under the 3 year/36,000-mile basic limited warranty. There was an EGR recall on the 2nd gen EcoDiesel, but there wasn't an extended warranty that came with it. You're thinking about the AEM warranty, which was also known as the EcoDiesel Settlement Warranty. The AEM warranty included 2014 - 2016 EcoDiesels.

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