Ecodiesel power derating as temps rise?

[steelponycowboy]

First long trip out today with the rv. Towed my 17' 3500lb rv with with a dirtbike in the bed about 200 miles through the mountains......Amb temp was 101° in the valley, but as low as 68° once in the mountains.

She derated on EVERY substantial hill but the water temp did not go over 246°, so no limp mode 10mph! I pulled over at every opportunity to let the line of traffic that backed up behind me go by. Pretty embarrassing as I've never had a vehicle that went so slow up a hill with such a small load.

Load pid was 50-51%, so obviously I was only getting 50% power despite my foot was to the floor and trucks were trying to run me over......

I was going to buy an off road tear drop trailer but have decided not to until I can get this derating under control. Hopefully Bullet Proof Diesel will come up with a working solution to a frustrating and embarrassing problem for many of us.

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[FutureOdin]

First long trip out today with the rv. Towed my 17' 3500lb rv with with a dirtbike in the bed about 200 miles through the mountains......Amb temp was 101° in the valley, but as low as 68° once in the mountains.

She derated on EVERY substantial hill but the water temp did not go over 246°, so no limp mode 10mph! I pulled over at every opportunity to let the line of traffic that backed up behind me go by. Pretty embarrassing as I've never had a vehicle that went so slow up a hill with such a small load.

Load pid was 50-51%, so obviously I was only getting 50% power despite my foot was to the floor and trucks were trying to run me over......

Did you try using the manual shifting mode to keep ahead of it, and not have your foot to the floor?

 

[CrazyCooter]

Did you try using the manual shifting mode to keep ahead of it, and not have your foot to the floor?

Yes of course I manual shift it as it really seems to wait too long to downshift sometimes. The end result with just 50% power is a traffic jam after the oil temp gets warm.

 

[CrazyCooter]

On the way home, the hill leaving town was an 8% grade. Since the fairgrounds where I was staying was withing a couple miles of the hill, I began my accent with both coolant and oil temps below 200°........ The Eco pulled the entire grade at 54mph before beginning to lay down from rising oil temp as I was rolling over the top!

Felt so good to experience what I thought I was buying with the turbocharged diesel over gas.........

We need an oil cooler solution!

 

[steelponycowboy]

On the way home, the hill leaving town was an 8% grade. Since the fairgrounds where I was staying was withing a couple miles of the hill, I began my accent with both coolant and oil temps below 200°........ The Eco pulled the entire grade at 54mph before beginning to lay down from rising oil temp as I was rolling over the top!

Felt so good to experience what I thought I was buying with the turbocharged diesel over gas.........

We need an oil cooler solution!

Bullet Proof Diesel should have a working prototype on my JTRD next month.

On side note I was going up a 4 mile 6% grade last night. Before I hit the summit I could smell hit oil. Coolant temp was 242 and oil temp was 264. Outside temps 82 with 60+ humidity. Started the climb at 65mph and at summit was down to just above 50mph.

 

[Rat2Desert]

Bullet Proof Diesel should have a working prototype on my JTRD next month.

Great news on Bullet Proof, very much looking forward to seeing what they come up with and I appreciate you working with them. I'm in Phoenix about 50% of the time and will be in line for whatever solution they come up with.

I'm wondering if maybe Jeep did the Davis Grade test with the engine derated ? Or right on the edge of derating ? Seems a bit suspicious that the derate speed is just above the minimum test speed, 45 seems to be the maximum derated speed.

I also wonder how much oil coolers and such will solve the heat soak derate issue ? Even with cooler oil when stopped there will still be a lot of captive heat and we'll still be running pretty hot.

Overall point being I can "maybe" see that the diesel can tow 6000 under ideal conditions at 40 up Davis, and yeah, OK, for the compromise vehicle this is (which I love and would still buy again) I'm willing to spend some $$$ for my edge case of towing in the southwest summer heat. BUT . . . there's still a big safety issue with unexpected heat soak derates.

I have CreepyJeepy's cool OBD2 gauge app, I'll be watching and trying to find the parameters for heat soak derate. Hopefully for now we can at least find a hack that will give us insight as to when it is safe to drive after stopping. Operational compromises are OK for me as long as I know what they are.

PS - Yeah I know, towing under desert conditions or in the mountains should not be an edge case, especially given Jeep's advertising. But, it seems that most people mostly don't have trouble hauling most loads, with probably covers Jeeps ass for overall "truth in advertising".

 

[2TH MVR]

After reading so much on this topic of derating. I'm just curious if JEEP Corp is concerned about this? Are we talking about just a few isolated cases in "extreme" environments with towing/or not towing? I'm amazed that owners have to resort to the aftermarket for adequate cooling options.

I guess my question is. Is this a serious, widespread issue (heat derating) that JEEP corp should be looking into? They must be reading these forums.

I live in the Scottsdale, AZ area. I bought my JTRD to offroad around the Flagstaff/Sedona area. Anyone who lives here knows the extreme elevation change from the Phoenix valley up to the Flagstaff area. I would be pissed if my JTRD derated on this trip without towing anything.

 

[CreepyJeepy]

I have added a few dashes, and dialed in the guage's a lot more!!!
You can now monitor soot levels, regen, DEF tank level, DEF tank temp, DEF quality issues, etc.

dashboard.json

Enjoy!

Great news on Bullet Proof, very much looking forward to seeing what they come up with and I appreciate you working with them. I'm in Phoenix about 50% of the time and will be in line for whatever solution they come up with.

I'm wondering if maybe Jeep did the Davis Grade test with the engine derated ? Or right on the edge of derating ? Seems a bit suspicious that the derate speed is just above the minimum test speed, 45 seems to be the maximum derated speed.

I also wonder how much oil coolers and such will solve the heat soak derate issue ? Even with cooler oil when stopped there will still be a lot of captive heat and we'll still be running pretty hot.

Overall point being I can "maybe" see that the diesel can tow 6000 under ideal conditions at 40 up Davis, and yeah, OK, for the compromise vehicle this is (which I love and would still buy again) I'm willing to spend some $$$ for my edge case of towing in the southwest summer heat. BUT . . . there's still a big safety issue with unexpected heat soak derates.

I have CreepyJeepy's cool OBD2 gauge app, I'll be watching and trying to find the parameters for heat soak derate. Hopefully for now we can at least find a hack that will give us insight as to when it is safe to drive after stopping. Operational compromises are OK for me as long as I know what they are.

PS - Yeah I know, towing under desert conditions or in the mountains should not be an edge case, especially given Jeep's advertising. But, it seems that most people mostly don't have trouble hauling most loads, with probably covers Jeeps ass for overall "truth in advertising".

 

[steelponycowboy]

Can't tell you about a trip from PHX to Flag but I can tell you that from Mesa to Payson my oil temps.run 260s and coolant runs 240s in the 4 mile stretch from Sunflower to Mt Ord. Power loss is very evident. I could only imagine what it would do going north from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point or from Camp Verde going south up that long steep hill. I can tell you my issues started around 7k miles and have gotten worse. MPG is now 15 when it was 25 not towing anything either.

 

[JCC]

Can't tell you about a trip from PHX to Flag but I can tell you that from Mesa to Payson my oil temps.run 260s and coolant runs 240s in the 4 mile stretch from Sunflower to Mt Ord. Power loss is very evident. I could only imagine what it would do going north from Black Canyon City to Sunset Point or from Camp Verde going south up that long steep hill. I can tell you my issues started around 7k miles and have gotten worse. MPG is now 15 when it was 25 not towing anything either.

15mpg and power loss without towing?! That's unreal. I'm at 1500 miles and just towed our 2200lb camper from Denver to Twin Falls, ID in 90+ degree heat without issue. I was crazy nervous that I'd have problems after reading all of these threads but it handled it like a champ, miles better than my old 3.6 JKU. Coolant topped out at 233 and oil at 248. Granted the grades on that trip aren't too bad, we'll see what happens when I take it west on I70. 15 mpg and no power is unacceptable, I'd have to look at lemon laws or selling it.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Note the ambient temp this time....

 

[just_another_guy]

You have to question the longevity of an engine that runs this hot on a regular basis.

 

[Rat2Desert]

After reading so much on this topic of derating. I'm just curious if JEEP Corp is concerned about this? Are we talking about just a few isolated cases in "extreme" environments with towing/or not towing? I'm amazed that owners have to resort to the aftermarket for adequate cooling options.

I guess my question is. Is this a serious, widespread issue (heat derating) that JEEP corp should be looking into? They must be reading these forums.

I live in the Scottsdale, AZ area. I bought my JTRD to offroad around the Flagstaff/Sedona area. Anyone who lives here knows the extreme elevation change from the Phoenix valley up to the Flagstaff area. I would be pissed if my JTRD derated on this trip without towing anything.

To me, Jeep should 100% be paying attention to the heat soak derate. This is stopping after driving in hot conditions and shutting the engine down, then driving again within some period of time. With ambient temps high and all the heat under the hood heat soaks into components, specifically what appears to be something with the turbo temps. When starting to drive again speed is limited to 45 until whatever parts are cool enough. The real joy is being surprised when this happens while merging into traffic. As happened to me on I-10 leaving Quartzite.

I hope Jeep is reading these threads, I'm going to start a dialog with them this week.

 

[Mr._Bill]

After reading so much on this topic of derating. I'm just curious if JEEP Corp is concerned about this? Are we talking about just a few isolated cases in "extreme" environments with towing/or not towing? I'm amazed that owners have to resort to the aftermarket for adequate cooling options.

I guess my question is. Is this a serious, widespread issue (heat derating) that JEEP corp should be looking into? They must be reading these forums.

I live in the Scottsdale, AZ area. I bought my JTRD to offroad around the Flagstaff/Sedona area. Anyone who lives here knows the extreme elevation change from the Phoenix valley up to the Flagstaff area. I would be pissed if my JTRD derated on this trip without towing anything.

I'm sure Jeep is well aware of the issues. The Jeep Engineers said from the beginning that adequate cooling was an issue due to the front end design, and that was at the time of the initial release with only the gas engine option.

 

[CrazyCooter]

You have to question the longevity of an engine that runs this hot on a regular basis.

Not sure about the engine itself, but all or the plastic and rubber bits under the hood? I know were not used to seeing temps this high in automotive applications, but I don't know if the temps will reduce longevity or not assuming the cool and and oil aren't breaking down.

Was thinking I should start dialog with Jeep on the off chance they arent aware of the problem. Has anyone already started a claim I could reference? A certain contact perhaps?

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