Electronic Throttle Control warning - 2020 JT manual

[OrangeChuck]

Maybe a little light rough idle on Wed, but Thursday morning a little rough idle on start with lower rpm and "service stop/start system", then stalled at the stop sign 100 ft away (not operator error with the manual clutch).
Re-started, got about 3/4 miles and got the "Service Electronic Throttle Control" and Electronic Stability Control light, and engine felt de-rated (limp mode). At the stop light, slow to get moving, and couldn't get above 30 mph in 3rd gear.
Pulled off, shut down for a few minutes. Restarted and let idle for a few minutes with no rough idle, then got 1/4 mile with same symptoms.
Not towing anything, 47 deg F air temp, about 150 lbs in the bed, no real strain. Sole owner, got it in early 2021, 151K miles so no warranty left.

Got it towed to AAMCO (dealer wouldn't have an open spot until Monday). They did a courtesy check, said they put 3 quarts of oil in since "dipstick was dry", and rattled-off a ton of codes over the phone. (I don't know why it's 3 quarts low, no oil at work or home parking spots, same spots every day. They said it could puddle up inside somewhere, but once the tech digs-in he might find it.)
Troubleshooting, they said the timing is off and will need to do a day's labor and replace seals (since they are getting into the engine) and timing chains, and possibly some other parts replacements. Honestly I was not in a position to write it all down.

First, any idea WTH is wrong?

Second, any idea where the oil is, if it could have caused a problem with pistons or valves or timing? Never got an oil light, 30 psi was normal for pressure, pulled all 5 quarts out last time I did the oil change. Is there actually anywhere it could pool-up and hide?

Third, did I screw up taking it to them and not waiting for the dealer? No warranty left, and they looked at it four days sooner than the dealer would. And do timing chains really need to be replaced? (Don't know how they remove them, whether they "break" them like I have to on a bicycle.)

Read most of the other ETC threads, seems like I have a lot more codes than anyone else with similar issue (but most of those are diesel and towing).

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[Hootbro]

The two local AAMCO's near me are pretty well known to be fleecing people, especially for non-transmission work that is outside their core work scope.

There is no way 3 quarts is pooling and hiding anywhere in that engine. If it idled fine after the restart, it is not base timing but you may be dealing with a VVT Cam Phaser issue.

Without seeing the actual codes, hard to say but I think you are dealing with one issue that is cascading and setting off all the other warnings for stability control and so forth. It may be just as simple as a electronic throttle body that needs cleaning and the "Limp Mode" is just locking out the Cam Phasers as part of it's default strategy.

If you are not a mechanical guy, you need to find somebody you trust that can help you navigate this as AAMCO is not a company I would trust with it.

 

[OrangeChuck]

Thanks Hoot. I feared that they might not know common problems/solutions that the dealer would know ... urgency of the situation made me seek non-Jeep help.

Figured it was a one-thing causing the cascade of failure codes. Going to get a copy of those for my files, and if anyone of you all ask.

 

[Hootbro]

I am doing a bit of spitballing with what I have for info, but if you never cleaned your throttle body in 150K miles, it may just be dirty and a stuck throttle body. While not common, not unheard of for a throttle body to just take a crap and hard fail also.

Good luck, hope you get it sorted without to much buffoonery and cost.

 

[OrangeChuck]

Looks like the codes might be a moot point now, shop is advising a replacement engine, since the timing gear lost teeth, timing went out, pistons hit valves, valves are bent.

They'd have to replace the "top end", but with 151K miles that would leave an 'old' "bottom end". They'd suggest a whole engine replacement instead of rebuild (for cost).

Checking to see if dealer will do it instead (if they will with someone else's rip-apart), cost, time, warranty, etc.

 

[OrangeChuck]

Codes:
P0018 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor [?]
P0016 Crankshaft/Camshaft Timing Misalignment - Bank 1 Sensor 1
P000C and A Bank 2 and 1 Camshaft Position Slow Response
P0300 Multiple Cylinder Misfire
P0019 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2 Sensor [?]
P0017 Crankshaft/Camshaft Timing Misalignment - Bank 1 Sensor 2
P2172 High Airflow/Vacuum Leak Detected (Instantaneous Accumulation)
P0133 O2 Sensor 1/1 Slow Response
P0153 O2 Sensor 2/1 Slow Response
P000B and D Bank 1 and 2 Camshaft 2 Position Slow Response
P0306 Cylinder 6 Misfire

Plus 4 stored codes
C121C-00 Torque Request Signal Denied (for the ABS)
B16B7-15 Center Stop Lamp Control - Circuit Short to Battery or Ope[cut off photo]
B1E99-92 Front Left Heater Control Circuit - Performance or Incorrect [cut off] (likely using seat heater after the rain with the top off)
C0077-00 Low Tire Pressure

 

[Hootbro]

I guess you have go by what they gave you, but call me skeptical on the whole thing.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I would sure opt for a "2nd opinion". It won't start and idle at all, eve for a short time, if there's that type of damage. It just won't happen.
An engine with that sort of damage isn't going to run, and even cranking it - it will sound "very different".

If the pistons hit valves - why would they not pull the bottom end apart or just put in a used engine or short block?

 

[OrangeChuck]

Shadows, their main recommendation is to replace the engine (with a used one, reconditioned).

I asked, so they told me they *could* do just the top and not the bottom end, but the mismatch in mileage could be an issue in the future.

Sorry if my prior post was confusing on this.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Shadows, their main recommendation is to replace the engine (with a used one, reconditioned).

I asked, so they told me they *could* do just the top and not the bottom end, but the mismatch in mileage could be an issue in the future.

Sorry if my prior post was confusing on this.

Mismatch in mileage?
Now I really question them.
There's no such thing. It's done all the time.
Are you SURE it's really that bad? Have they shown you?
Sorry, after that mismatch in mileage thing from them, I trust nothing.

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