engine replacement advice request

[ShadowsPapa]

Yes like cryogenic. On knife making for instance the steel is hardened all the way through by different processes
Wonder what the hardness rating of the cams are on these motors ?

I'm thinking of a phosphate camshaft treatment. Maybe a manganese phosphate.

Sponsored

 

[Stan H]

And these jeeps have cold air intakes from the factory with the duct feeding the air box.

I will say that there are aftermarket air boxes that actually serve a purpose. A gain in horsepower, almost never. But I have one from Corsa that genuinely filters way better, without flow restriction over factory. For all the fine particle dust mine sees, I like it very much.
[/QUOT
Yes and that Duct isn't connected to the box either there is a small split there
. I imagine for water to escape .
That Duct I imagine helps at speed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Not connected? You mean not a sealed connection, I suspect. No need, and, it makes it easy to pull the air box for repairs and maintenance.

Air flows like a liquid (for all practical purposes, it is a liquid in the studies of engines) - it's going to mostly come in from the front, from the grill, even sitting or moving slow. Easiest path in.
You should see the BUGS that get into mine.
I have to periodically pull things apart and vacuum the bugs out of the air box.

These also pull from the right front edge of the hood, not the engine bay.
So they really are pretty much cold air intakes. No air from the engine bay to speak of.

 

[Stan H]

Not connected? You mean not a sealed connection, I suspect. No need, and, it makes it easy to pull the air box for repairs and maintenance.

Air flows like a liquid (for all practical purposes, it is a liquid in the studies of engines) - it's going to mostly come in from the front, from the grill, even sitting or moving slow. Easiest path in.
You should see the BUGS that get into mine.
I have to periodically pull things apart and vacuum the bugs out of the air box.

These also pull from the right front edge of the hood, not the engine bay.
So they really are pretty much cold air intakes. No air from the engine bay to speak of.

Yes there is a tiny break between the box and tube.
I dont know this to be true I am taking a logical guesstimate that the reason for this goes even beyond extraction for cleaning (which I have done a couple times. ) but I always figured it was to prevent water intrusion in the event of Fording waterways .

 

[Lost1wing]

I just had a thought
Could it be that the metal composition of certian batches of cams is not correct ?
I know there are multiple multiple grades . 4140, 4310?? ( something like that ) etc.. hmmm
Or does any of that matter beyond the lobe hardening ?

If that was the case, you would think that after the 2020 batch they would have corrected the issue. They are still producing cams that fail. The failures could be assembly failures or tech not replacing lifter assemblies or even lubrication problems.

The more moving parts, the greater chance of a failure. One bad part could wipe out all of it. Cam hardness, lifters ( lack of rollers?) Cam phasers or lubrication, who knows. Some people go a long time without issue. Could be like ShadowsPapa says, time spent in high lift. I don’t think my engine goes in high lift much, so maybe I will be spared.

 

[Mad Mac]

Well, after seeing this thread
I drove to my local Jeep dealer
25 miles away in the next county
and had the service writer step outside
to give a listen to the ticking in my 2021
with 25,000 miles on it.
He also scanned my VIN.

He did not put up a fight
about the camshaft problem
and volunteered
that they replace the engine
and that it would take about two months
from the time I bring it in.

Most importantly,
he told me that the five year warranty
starts from the date of the initial sale,
not the date manufactured.
Based on the VIN, that was June 22, 2021.
So I have another year
and another 25,000 miles
to drive the dog hair out of this mill.
I will probably take it next spring.

 

[markleone22]

Not that I'm trackin on any of the technical talk, but great conversation, fellas.

Quick update incase you're still interested in the outcome of this nightmare. Even though I was well out of warranty at 106K miles, I raised holy hell with the dealership through many phone calls and multiple emails with people as high up the chain as I could reach. Long story short, they agreed to install a brand new engine (not a reman) and pay 60% of it. Total job is over 8K, my end is just over 3K. They've had my Gladiator for almost three weeks, I was told I should have it by Friday. New engine comes with 3 year/100K mile warranty (not great, but whatever).

Few questions:

1. These brand new Pentastar 3.6's coming off the assembly line...have the classic issues with this engine (cams, rocker arms, etc) been addressed in the way they are now manufacturing them, or should I assume it's the identical engine made in the identical way it was made in 2020 and therefore likely to have the same issues as some point?

2. I've recently learned about the Baxter oil filter adapter for prevention of wear from dry starts. Anyone install this themselves? Is it wise to install this for engine longevity? Anyone experience warranty headaches after having installed it?

3. In keeping with the preventative measures for Pentastar 3.6 longevity theme, is it advisable to go with a heavier oil, as I see a lot of people recommending? I imagine doing that also voids the warranty?

Thanks.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

1. These brand new Pentastar 3.6's coming off the assembly line...have the classic issues with this engine (cams, rocker arms, etc) been addressed in the way they are now manufacturing them, or should I assume it's the identical engine made in the identical way it was made in 2020 and therefore likely to have the same issues as some point?

2. I've recently learned about the Baxter oil filter adapter for prevention of wear from dry starts. Anyone install this themselves? Is it wise to install this for engine longevity? Anyone experience warranty headaches after having installed it?

3. In keeping with the preventative measures for Pentastar 3.6 longevity theme, is it advisable to go with a heavier oil, as I see a lot of people recommending? I imagine doing that also voids the warranty?

#1. - same engine, no changes anyone knows of. The part numbers run clear into current models.

#2. - likely a placebo - a feel good thing, but there's nothing about it that would or should matter at all. The issue comes with the less ease of oil filter changes. But then, you get rid of the plastic filter housing so if you are afraid of that part, there's advantage there. Otherwise, there's nothing about it that should matter, it won't hurt anything, but there's no science or evidence or anything at all suggesting it does or even can help.

#3 - that's been hashed to death all over many threads and hundreds of posts here and in other Jeep forums.
There's a lot of people "recommending" - with no experience or knowledge - it just "sounds good" to them. That's all. Millions of these on the road all using the recommended oil and hundreds of thousands of miles. There's at least a couple of anecdotal bits where people using the heavier oil still had issues.
It's not going to void the warranty, but there's nothing behind those advocating heavier oil. It just sounds good and it's what bubba said would be better and it's in hundreds of posts - and this is the internet, so they must be right!

2 and 3 - do whatever you want. It's yours, but there's no supporting evidence behind any of that, and many advocating for such things have zero experience working on anything except lifts and tires and doing their own oil changes
If it makes you feel better - why not?

 

[markleone22]

#1. - same engine, no changes anyone knows of. The part numbers run clear into current models.

#2. - likely a placebo - a feel good thing, but there's nothing about it that would or should matter at all. The issue comes with the less ease of oil filter changes. But then, you get rid of the plastic filter housing so if you are afraid of that part, there's advantage there. Otherwise, there's nothing about it that should matter, it won't hurt anything, but there's no science or evidence or anything at all suggesting it does or even can help.

#3 - that's been hashed to death all over many threads and hundreds of posts here and in other Jeep forums.
There's a lot of people "recommending" - with no experience or knowledge - it just "sounds good" to them. That's all. Millions of these on the road all using the recommended oil and hundreds of thousands of miles. There's at least a couple of anecdotal bits where people using the heavier oil still had issues.
It's not going to void the warranty, but there's nothing behind those advocating heavier oil. It just sounds good and it's what bubba said would be better and it's in hundreds of posts - and this is the internet, so they must be right!

2 and 3 - do whatever you want. It's yours, but there's no supporting evidence behind any of that, and many advocating for such things have zero experience working on anything except lifts and tires and doing their own oil changes
If it makes you feel better - why not?

Appreciate the feedback. I mean, I'm not gonna do anything to the engine just because it "feels good." I try to make data-driven decisions.

Sponsored