Engine tick?

[Brahmajoe]

When I’m in my truck no air out music going just parked in idle all you hear is a faint clack clack clack. Def but a normal idle sound. My local dealer sucks. If they dispute it I’ll bring it to my trusted mechanic to have him print me out a full write up. I’ve had other wranglers so I oboe something is a stray

Any update on the jeep?

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[f33d]

Any update on the jeep?

Dealer rescheduled on me. I’ll keep the tread updated when I get any updates from the dealer.

 

[f33d]

Update. Dropped off at dealer tonight. Hopefully will hear back tomorrow.

 

[Arcticelf]

Mine goes in next week for a similar sound. More to follow.

 

[ruggburnout]

I had tick/chatter on my 2021 Gladiator with 3.6L. It wasn't discernible at idle like yours, but clearly audible when revving the engine above 2500-3000 rpm.

I just picked up the vehicle from the dealership on Monday and the noise is gone. They replaced the left bank intake camshaft that clearly high lift lobe wear and all the intake cam followers on both banks. They also replaced the solenoids on the left bank but I don't believe that was necessary as it is not a stuck high lift issue. Dealerships are going to add parts to get their warranty money because that's what they do... I would have preferred they also replaced the right bank camshaft, but the mechanic said it looked fine.

Hopefully a TSB gets issued when they resolve the cause(s). I will make sure to get the corrected camshaft and followers installed.


Here is the noise in my vehicle before the fix:



Cylinder 4 high lift lobe wear:

 

[ShadowsPapa]

They also replaced the solenoids on the left bank but I don't believe that was necessary as it is not a stuck high lift issue. Dealerships are going to add parts to get their warranty money because that's what they do...

And you know this......... how? I'm curious.
You dug through the then current stats?
High lift lobe and follower wear but you say they weren't on high lift mode. That only kicks in NORMALLY above 2800 RPM so unless you spend a lot of time at 2800 RPM or better, there's little reason for those to wear.
Very iffy to replace a follower/rocker and not a cam. They literally wear in together. It's not as bad as a flat tappet cam and true lifters - those rotate and wear in very specifically, but still - I replace only sets - meaning followers/rockers and cams together unless it's extremely low miles and a micrometer shows things as I expect.

I don't like the looks of the lobe to the right of that #4 in your picture. That is either very dirty - a lot of dirt/dust, or there's some galling going on.

Dealerships often have to send parts back to FCA for analysis and if a part is found not bad, they risk not getting reimbursed for part and labor. So unless they have symptoms they can match, or otherwise have the logs showing a problem, they don't usually just start throwing parts. Engines and transmissions they must follow some strict protocol.
I've got communications where FCA is telling dealerships to stop replacing certain parts unless they see x, y or z because they've analyzed returned parts and found them to be just fine.
Besides, the flat rate for certain parts is a fraction of what they could otherwise make - dealers don't always like warranty work. If FCA says "this takes .75 hours", that's all they get from FCA even if it actually took them 90 minutes. No excuses, that are allowed what FCA says the flat rate is. It's one reason obscure issues may go unresolved or they rush through things. Warranty work isn't exactly lucrative in many cases.

 

[Lunentucker]

I had tick/chatter on my 2021 Gladiator with 3.6L. It wasn't discernible at idle like yours, but clearly audible when revving the engine above 2500-3000 rpm.

I just picked up the vehicle from the dealership on Monday and the noise is gone. They replaced the left bank intake camshaft that clearly high lift lobe wear and all the intake cam followers on both banks. They also replaced the solenoids on the left bank but I don't believe that was necessary as it is not a stuck high lift issue. Dealerships are going to add parts to get their warranty money because that's what they do... I would have preferred they also replaced the right bank camshaft, but the mechanic said it looked fine.

Hopefully a TSB gets issued when they resolve the cause(s). I will make sure to get the corrected camshaft and followers installed.


Here is the noise in my vehicle before the fix:



Cylinder 4 high lift lobe wear:

Good info.
I'm watching mine very closely.
I've got another oil change coming up soon and I'll be sending another sample in for analysis. I don't mind spending the money for the knowledge that something isn't right hidden inside the engine.
It almost always seems to be that left side.

 

[ruggburnout]

And you know this......... how? I'm curious.
You dug through the then current stats?
High lift lobe and follower wear but you say they weren't on high lift mode. That only kicks in NORMALLY above 2800 RPM so unless you spend a lot of time at 2800 RPM or better, there's little reason for those to wear.
Very iffy to replace a follower/rocker and not a cam. They literally wear in together. It's not as bad as a flat tappet cam and true lifters - those rotate and wear in very specifically, but still - I replace only sets - meaning followers/rockers and cams together unless it's extremely low miles and a micrometer shows things as I expect.

I don't like the looks of the lobe to the right of that #4 in your picture. That is either very dirty - a lot of dirt/dust, or there's some galling going on.

Dealerships often have to send parts back to FCA for analysis and if a part is found not bad, they risk not getting reimbursed for part and labor. So unless they have symptoms they can match, or otherwise have the logs showing a problem, they don't usually just start throwing parts. Engines and transmissions they must follow some strict protocol.
I've got communications where FCA is telling dealerships to stop replacing certain parts unless they see x, y or z because they've analyzed returned parts and found them to be just fine.
Besides, the flat rate for certain parts is a fraction of what they could otherwise make - dealers don't always like warranty work. If FCA says "this takes .75 hours", that's all they get from FCA even if it actually took them 90 minutes. No excuses, that are allowed what FCA says the flat rate is. It's one reason obscure issues may go unresolved or they rush through things. Warranty work isn't exactly lucrative in many cases.

Let's just say, I know some things about these parts specifically.

As far as when high lift is active, it is pretty much all the time. There was a calibration change on Pentastar Upgrade a few years ago that eliminated low lift at idle and low speed. So essentially, the only time it is in low lift is at highway cruising vehicle speeds in top gear.

The solenoids are activated to push the pin to allow for high lift follower to drop so the low lift rollers are followed. With the cal change, this is now maybe 10% of duty cycle. So replacing solenoids is thinking that the pin isn't getting activated and it is 'stuck' in high lift. But even if that occurs, you are only adding 10% more duty cycle to the high lift follower. The wear is being caused by other issues.

I wanted the right bank camshaft replaced for the same reason that you stated. Even though it was just polishing on the lobes from the old followers, the new followers would be better off with a new lobe surface to wear into. Regardless, I will monitor for the issue and hopefully at some point they (FCA, now Stellantis) figure it out and a TSB is issued so I can get corrected parts.

Lastly, the pic shows cylinder 4 lobes A and B. Follower 4A high lift in the pic had the extensive lobe wear. 4B looked like typical polishing though maybe not for only 23,700 miles.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So essentially, the only time it is in low lift is at highway cruising vehicle speeds in top gear.

Yes because of the typically low torque demand and "once rolling" the engine can relax a bit. You can follow this by monitoring the torque numbers as you drive. Accelerating from a stop, even if only achieving 2,000-2,500 RPM requires more torque, not a time for low lift.
Low lift is also mainly to reduce pumping losses at low demand cruise speeds.
I've gone over the designs on these over and over and over for months and can't see why they can't implement a roller on the high lift side. But maybe I do know why - weight, the size and profile of the cam lobe would need to be changed - if the roller was too small they'd be loading up some really small bearings at high lift. Bronze bushings would do better than needle bearings in that case.

IMO, these are worse than flat tappet cams of other engines or decades past - those at least rotated to keep things even, smooth and clean. These simply drag over the exact same place on the cam with the same part of the follower over and over. There's no randomization to it like a round rotating lifter on a flat tappet cam. These are the same spot hitting the same part of the cam every time around.

Turned out my misfire on the even bank was due to the stupid thing sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on - it hadn't yet learned the crank/cam relationship. It stated not yet learned. Now at least there's a value at every one of those spots. On the other hand, it now gets WORSE mpg, not better!

 

[ruggburnout]

Yes because of the typically low torque demand and "once rolling" the engine can relax a bit. You can follow this by monitoring the torque numbers as you drive. Accelerating from a stop, even if only achieving 2,000-2,500 RPM requires more torque, not a time for low lift.
Low lift is also mainly to reduce pumping losses at low demand cruise speeds.
I've gone over the designs on these over and over and over for months and can't see why they can't implement a roller on the high lift side. But maybe I do know why - weight, the size and profile of the cam lobe would need to be changed - if the roller was too small they'd be loading up some really small bearings at high lift. Bronze bushings would do better than needle bearings in that case.

IMO, these are worse than flat tappet cams of other engines or decades past - those at least rotated to keep things even, smooth and clean. These simply drag over the exact same place on the cam with the same part of the follower over and over. There's no randomization to it like a round rotating lifter on a flat tappet cam. These are the same spot hitting the same part of the cam every time around.

Turned out my misfire on the even bank was due to the stupid thing sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on - it hadn't yet learned the crank/cam relationship. It stated not yet learned. Now at least there's a value at every one of those spots. On the other hand, it now gets WORSE mpg, not better!

The calibration change completely eliminated low lift at idle and low engine speed. It was due to customer complaints that they could feel the transition from low to high lift. So no matter the torque demand, it is always in high lift now except for the top gear highway cruising.

The high lift follower has a 'special' low friction coating that works with the surface finish requirements of the camshaft lobe and the oil film. It was extensively tested and works quite well. Rollers have their issues too. Nothing is perfect. That being said, something between the interaction of these parts is the cause. Hopefully, they figure it out soon.

 

[FRAWLZLINE]

I sell at a Stellantis dealer. I can attest to this being a normal sound. There is some sort of variance between all of the 3.6l Pentastar engines of this same sound. The service manager and even our factory representative trainer says that sound is the hydraulic variable valve timing.

Behaving within normal parameters . But, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I sell at a Stellantis dealer. I can attest to this being a normal sound. There is some sort of variance between all of the 3.6l Pentastar engines of this same sound. The service manager and even our factory representative trainer says that sound is the hydraulic variable valve timing.

Behaving within normal parameters . But, maybe I'm wrong.

These aren't quiet valve trains, and part of that is the necessary lash between the high lift part of he rocker and the lock pin that you'll hear at certain times.
But I have to say, mine is quieter most of the time than my 4.0 (but then it's got an xtreme 4x4 cam and other fun stuff inside)
I've not had a 3.6 I considered "too noisy" they aren't quiet engines.

The high lift follower has a 'special' low friction coating that works with the surface finish requirements of the camshaft lobe and the oil film

Anything like the different coating used on the crankshaft bearings? These bearings aren't your grandfathers main and rod bearings of yesteryear.

Rollers do have their issues - but that technology has been around long enough, and enough auto makers are using them with great success - one would think it would be an option. I know some of the early failures were bearing failures. Makers of roller cams and lifters have determined that the small needle bearings couldn't handle the impact - so some switched to a bushing instead of roller bearings and the issues went away.
Rollers have been used for years in extreme RPM cases with valve spring loads that make these look weak.
There's a big thread out in another place that shows how people are converting their older race engines over to LS rollers - even putting the Chevy LS rockers and such on AMC heads with very high valve spring pressures and high lift cams.
But trying to get dual lift out of a single "rocker" isn't simple. It's really an amazing system that usually works very well.
30,000 on my 2020 now - 0 cam/rocker issues (LOL - I still get UCONNECT reports on it!)
almost 7,000 on my 2022 and so far, crossing fingers and toes, the only issue was the thing hadn't learned the crank/cam relationship and it had to be held back a grade and retrained. It didn't pay attention in class.
We've had a fair number of Grand Cherokees over the years, 3 since the "big changes" for the 3.6 and no engine troubles ever (other than spark plugs in the 2021) So we've put some miles on various 3.6 engines and I like 'em.

 

[Beat Army]

All these posts about engine ticking make me wonder what the hell a normal 3.6 improved Pentastar is supposed to sound like. Mine is noisy. I didn’t really think much of it until all these posts where people are getting open heart surgery on their engines.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

All these posts about engine ticking make me wonder what the hell a normal 3.6 improved Pentastar is supposed to sound like. Mine is noisy. I didn’t really think much of it until all these posts where people are getting open heart surgery on their engines.

They aren't quiet engines. If one thinks they should be whisper quiet and zero ticking, they are buying the wrong vehicle. When I pull up to a drive-through window, like at Panda Express or whatever, I can hear ticking and the engine noise quite easily.
The same engine in a Grand Cherokee is quieter - when the hood is closed, because the vehicle sits low and engine sounds are prevented from escaping the engine bay. Vehicles that sit higher and have less insulation also have more engine sounds even with the same exact engine.

Somewhere I have video of mine running - I'll dig it up.

EDIT - found it

 

[Beat Army]

Soooo. What did the dealer say?

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