First oil change, Should I be worried?

[Lunentucker]

What does anyone actually do with data from an oil analysis report?

Sure I know that that metals wear into the oil.... but as someone who dabbles in data analysis from time to time for a living, is the data for the sake of data or is there any actionable data you can actually take from it? Are you going to strip the block down and rebuild because your copper bits have gone up 3ppm over the last 6 oil changes? At how many ppm do you trade it in and make it the next guy's problem? I just don't understand the reasoning behind doing it.

In my limited shade tree mechanic experience, the motor runs or it doesn't, it knocks or it doesn't, it burns oil? Change it more often. I've driven several vehicles past 200,000 miles with this logic and some I know for a fact are still running.

So again, what's the point? A data repot to say hey look, I have a data report?

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[Hootbro]

What does anyone actually do with data from an oil analysis report?

Sure I know that that metals wear into the oil.... but as someone who dabbles in data analysis from time to time for a living, is the data for the sake of data or is there any actionable data you can actually take from it? Are you going to strip the block down and rebuild because your copper bits have gone up 3ppm over the last 6 oil changes? At how many ppm do you trade it in and make it the next guy's problem? I just don't understand the reasoning behind doing it.

In my limited shade tree mechanic experience, the motor runs or it doesn't, it knocks or it doesn't, it burns oil? Change it more often. I've driven several vehicles past 200,000 miles with this logic and some I know for a fact are still running.

So again, what's the point? A data repot to say hey look, I have a data report?

Data points over time can see where a engine is trending and "possible" issues that may arise from elevate levels of what elements are trending up.

Elevated silicone can mean a possible post air filter ingestion of contaminated unfiltered dirty air.

Elevated potassium and/or sodium can mean a possible start of coolant intrusion into oil.

Elevated iron can mean possible excessive valvetrain wear.

Elevated copper can mean possible excessive main bearing wear.

Elevated fuel dilution can mean a possible stuck or worn fuel injector.

If you are person that just sees a motor that runs until it doesn't, then oil analysis may not be of value. Others like myself, like to get ahead of things and start checking into possible problems that may be causing these elevated elements.

That being said though and I will freely admit, if you are under warranty, dealerships almost never pay any attention to customer brought in oil analysis data and rarely will ever act upon any such data in a preventive measure. Oil Analysis in that case has more value to those post warranty and keeping an eye on their motor and vehicle health.

Subject of oil analysis like many things oil related on vehicle forums, starts to trend to either a right or wrong summation of the subject by many when it is neither of those.

 

[Jefe1018]

Data points over time can see where a engine is trending and "possible" issues that may arise from elevate levels of what elements are trending up.

Elevated silicone can mean a possible post air filter ingestion of contaminated unfiltered dirty air.

Elevated potassium and/or sodium can mean a possible start of coolant intrusion into oil.

Elevated iron can mean possible excessive valvetrain wear.

Elevated copper can mean possible excessive main bear wear.

Elevated fuel dilution can mean a possible stuck or worn fuel injector.

If you are person that just sees a motor that runs until it doesn't, then oil analysis may not be of value. Others like myself, like to get ahead of things and start checking into possible problems that may be causing these elevated elements.

That being said though and I will freely admit, if you are under warranty, dealerships almost never pay any attention to customer brought in oil analysis data and rarely will ever act upon any such data in a preventive measure. Oil Analysis in that case has more value to those post warranty and keeping an eye on their motor and vehicle health.

Subject of oil analysis like many things oil related on vehicle forums, starts to trend to either a right or wrong summation of the subject by many when it is neither of those.

Right... but realistically speaking, what would you do with any of that data to take corrective action? Any of the elevated levels mentioned mean you have a costly repair coming, eventually, and maybe. At what point based on levels from an oil analysis would you take corrective action?

There are ways to diagnose every one of the items you described outside of an oil analysis once they start to go haywire (ie low coolant, steam coming from valvetrain, misfires, excessive oil at oil change intervals, blow by, etc.) Outside of geeking out over how components wear, I personally don't see a point as I'm not tearing apart an engine for a headgasket because an oil analysis says I have some coolant in it but its not low in the cooling system.

I don't foresee any repair being any less costly if you catch it at the microscopic level.

However, to each their own. I'm not really crapping on doing it, I'm just wondering how it is used in an actionable sense. I'm always open to changing my POV.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don't foresee any repair being any less costly if you catch it at the microscopic level.

They are - or can be - For sure. I've done my share of engine rebuilds and repairs over my 50 years in the field and when someone catches something fast, it can save them thousands (hundreds in 1980s engines and dollars)
When something starts to go - it can take other things out.
It can be the difference between an oversize bore, or a sleeve job, some things contribute to other troubles.
Bearings are a good example - save the crank or not. Toss a rod or not.
It's forensics.
Hootbro's list is not everything you can tell.

Maybe this guy's Jeep wouldn't have left him stranded........ metal particles so small a filter won't catch it will cut other parts as it circulates with the oil. He ended up toasting the oil pump, too as it's the first thing that sees the oil that these particles before a filter might catch it if it could.

 

[Jefe1018]

Maybe this guy's Jeep wouldn't have left him stranded........ metal particles so small a filter won't catch it will cut other parts as it circulates with the oil. He ended up toasting the oil pump, too as it's the first thing that sees the oil that these particles before a filter might catch it if it could.

What could have a series oil analysis' have done that would have prevented this failure? Would the owner have parked the car and rebuilt it? Maybe. I still don't see where the ROI is here.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What could have a series oil analysis' have done that would have prevented this failure? Would the owner have parked the car and rebuilt it? Maybe. I still don't see where the ROI is here.

When you find something out of the ordinary or abnormal, you troubleshoot, look into it.
It was too late and I didn't really care about the chicken or the egg in this case, but the wear could have been caught - and maybe negated a need to grind the crank, or bore the cylinders, whatever.
There's a reason fleet owners go through the process and keep records.

Maybe a better example is the engine from the 83 SX4 my son bought - the wear was so bad it ended up being a complete rebuild with new crankshaft and more. Likely the crankshaft could have been saved.
You can't just use the oil reports alone, you have to combine them with some skills and diagnostics abilities.
Silicone in the oil - look for a reason - air filter type, maybe a leak in the air intake system pulling dirty air, improperly installed or seated filter.
It's really hard to cover decades of troubleshooting and diagnostics in a forum post. You have to combine the reports with other abilities and tools.
If I sent in a sample and it showed abnormal amounts of certain metals - I might be inclined to pull a valve cover..........knowing that almost any failure in these things that results in metals in the oil is most likely valve train related.

If I had been doing oil analysis on my 70 Javelin 390, I'd have saved myself needing to sleeve 4 of 8 cylinders, saving a few hundred bucks. Instead, naw, it's just a minor misfire. No biggy.
The result - new pistons, 4 sleeves, cam and lifters, crank grind, etc.

 

[sharpsicle]

What could have a series oil analysis' have done that would have prevented this failure? Would the owner have parked the car and rebuilt it? Maybe. I still don't see where the ROI is here.

Let me put it this way to keep it simple. Would you rather have a heads up that something is going wrong, thereby giving you a chance to get it corrected, or would you rather have no idea it's coming until it's already too late? Oil analysis is just one tool you can use in combination with many others to get an idea of the health of your engine and whether or not it needs additional attention. Nobody wants to be surprised. This can help reduce the likelihood of that surprise happening.

And when it comes to the gearheads that do send their oil out regularly, they will absolutely want to know in advance because they will look into things they can do to prevent a catastrophic event. Engines aren't just an "oh well, better let it die" situation. They can absolutely be repaired, and if caught earlier, a preventative repair most often is cheaper.

After all, you go to the doctor regularly, right? If they said you've got indicators in your bloodwork that show you might have a tumor, you'd investigate further, yeah? You don't just stop going and hope that when the tumor destroys your internals that you can just get a transplant. You try and address it earlier. It's the same concept here.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

After all, you go to the doctor regularly, right? If they said you've got indicators in your bloodwork that show you might have a tumor, you'd investigate further, yeah? You don't just stop going and hope that when the tumor destroys your internals that you can just get a transplant. You try and address it earlier. It's the same concept here.

BINGO!
And no, I don't. I wait- ADHD, never do today what you can put off until tomorrow and you know tomorrow you're going to be too busy or find other stuff to do...... yeah, that's me.
But when Medicare "encouraged' me to go to the doctor and get a free wellness exam, full blood work, EKG and other stuff - my wife said GO,. you know how you put this stuff off.
So I went, got all the tests, and things looked pretty good, really.
Then 3 months later, extreme muscle aches, back and left arm, pains in the chest but I was certain it was more related to heartburn (and doctor agreed - but...........)
So my wife said get your butt in NOW.
I went, doc said the pain was likely gastric, but she was concerned enough to do an EKG.
She saw something she wasn't sure of, concerned but said maybe it's been that way always as she had nothing to compare to.
I asked- do you mean a baseline? A history? Yeah, I had all that done 3 months ago.
She compared and that gave her more pause.
I'm now set up to have some other tests and scans done in a couple of weeks.
Because I had a baseline, something to compare to, when something showed up later that was a "is it, or isn't it?" thing, the two were different, and in a short period of time they were different.

You have a baseline. You can also track trends, a trend line.

 

[Jefe1018]

When you find something out of the ordinary or abnormal, you troubleshoot, look into it.
It was too late and I didn't really care about the chicken or the egg in this case, but the wear could have been caught - and maybe negated a need to grind the crank, or bore the cylinders, whatever.
There's a reason fleet owners go through the process and keep records.

Maybe a better example is the engine from the 83 SX4 my son bought - the wear was so bad it ended up being a complete rebuild with new crankshaft and more. Likely the crankshaft could have been saved.
You can't just use the oil reports alone, you have to combine them with some skills and diagnostics abilities.
Silicone in the oil - look for a reason - air filter type, maybe a leak in the air intake system pulling dirty air, improperly installed or seated filter.
It's really hard to cover decades of troubleshooting and diagnostics in a forum post. You have to combine the reports with other abilities and tools.
If I sent in a sample and it showed abnormal amounts of certain metals - I might be inclined to pull a valve cover..........knowing that almost any failure in these things that results in metals in the oil is most likely valve train related.

If I had been doing oil analysis on my 70 Javelin 390, I'd have saved myself needing to sleeve 4 of 8 cylinders, saving a few hundred bucks. Instead, naw, it's just a minor misfire. No biggy.
The result - new pistons, 4 sleeves, cam and lifters, crank grind, etc.

Let me put it this way to keep it simple. Would you rather have a heads up that something is going wrong, thereby giving you a chance to get it corrected, or would you rather have no idea it's coming until it's already too late? Oil analysis is just one tool you can use in combination with many others to get an idea of the health of your engine and whether or not it needs additional attention. Nobody wants to be surprised. This can help reduce the likelihood of that surprise happening.

And when it comes to the gearheads that do send their oil out regularly, they will absolutely want to know in advance because they will look into things they can do to prevent a catastrophic event. Engines aren't just an "oh well, better let it die" situation. They can absolutely be repaired, and if caught earlier, a preventative repair most often is cheaper.

After all, you go to the doctor regularly, right? If they said you've got indicators in your bloodwork that show you might have a tumor, you'd investigate further, yeah? You don't just stop going and hope that when the tumor destroys your internals that you can just get a transplant. You try and address it earlier. It's the same concept here.

You have both made a compelling case, but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here on whether its a waste of time, money and energy.

 

[Hootbro]

You have both made a compelling case, but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here on whether its a waste of time, money and energy.

A compelling case can be made owning a Jeep in general is a waste of time, money and energy.

Yet here we all are by our own volition.

 

[Jefe1018]

A compelling case can be made owning a Jeep in general is a waste of time, money and energy.

Yet here we all are by our own volition.

Haha my wife would say it’s not even an argument. ?

 

[Lunentucker]

Again, for me it was to get possible insight into what could be a major issue down the road, and possibly after my warranty period.
If there was compelling evidence that the engine was headed for premature failures due to excessive wear then I'd be looking to trade it in before they issue came to a head on my dime.
I wouldn't sell it because it's usually friends who buy my vehicles when offered for sale. I wouldn't want to dump my problems on someone I know.

 

[Gren71]

well, for the first time in a while, I actually appreciated that back and forth. VERY informative. Makes me think its something I may start doing after i hit the 80 or 90k mile mark. Just to keep a closer eye on things since I tow relatively often.

Im honestly more concerned with my trans fluid than my engine fluid though. but i confess total ignorance in this field so ?‍

 

[Lost1wing]

When I was younger, I started using "X" oil and I did their oil analysis along with a third party oil analysis. I did this for the first three oil changes on the new "X" oil on one gas car and one diesel. I didn't see much change between the 10,000 mile samples. I don't do it any more oil sampling, but I still use "X" oil.

 

[TwelveSoldier]

Anyone use Castrol for their diesel? I seen this at walmart and it says it meets the MS-12991.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Castrol-...tic-Motor-Oil-5-Quarts/145736795?athbdg=L1600

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