First Tow with the Gladiator and comparing it to the same trip using my old RAM with the 5.7 and our old Dakota before that

[LittleFish]

Last week, we did a family camping trip up island. I traded in the RAM with the 5.7 HEMI on the Gladiator (see profile pic) and prior to that, I traded a 4dr, 6cyl, 2wd Dakota in on the RAM. Trailer has been the constant variable as I've towed it on the same trip with all 3 trucks. So this review is "real world" experience.

Full tank of fuel leaving the house (habit), and we immediately have a 25km mountain pass to get over. Approximately 1200ft of elevation to reach the summit and then back down again with roughly a 5% grade.

Trailer is 3600 pounds dry. 19ft long, single axle, "off road" lift/tires. 4 passengers and a dog. We never carry water on this trip as the site has hook-ups. Aside from water, we are fully loaded and come in at around +/- 5200 pounds.

Tow vehicle is pretty much a stock Jeep Gladiator with Max Tow, 3.6 gas, trailer brakes, anti sway bar hitch, Air Ride bags in the rear springs.

Crested the Summit with a very watchful eye on the Engine and Transmission temps. Speed limit is 80km/h and I didn't push it past 70 km/h as I was stuck behind a motorhome. There was still some gas pedal to spare but I don't know that I'd push it much harder as it really didn't want to leave 3rd gear. The Gladiator was working pretty hard! On the flatter ground, the truck was happy as can be and towed wonderfully. I don't think I'd attempt a pass through the Rockies with this set up. I think those 8-9% grades would do this little truck in. As it was, temps were in normal operating limits but they were on the higher end of the spectrum.

The RAM had power to spare... 1/4 Throttle and I was maintaining the speed limit. Also had the Air Bags in the RAM.

We formerly had a 2007 Dakota with the 6Cyl and towing slightly less of a load over that Summit had me thinking I was just moments away from turning my hood into a porcupine. My foot was to the floor and I was barely maintaining 60km/h. We set up the campsite, drove to the dealership and bought the RAM. Installed the brake controller in the RAM when I got back to the campsite (that was an expensive trip.... hahaha).

Fuel from Victoria to Nanaimo with this load in the RAM (maintaining the speed limit) would have me sitting at just a hair over half a tank of fuel left (100L tank).

Fuel from Victoria to Nanaimo with the same load in the Gladiator (maintaining the speed limit in all areas except the ascent to the Summit where I was 10km/h below the limit) had me sitting at just under the 3/4 of a tank of fuel left (83L tank).

The fuel economy in the Gladiator was absolutely shocking! I was hopeful that it would have a bit more grunt on the ascent but it wasn't bad considering this is a small truck. I don't know what this run would be like if I didn't have the 4:10 gears in it. I imagine it would be pretty similar to how the Dakota was?

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[ygrignon]

So the RAM consumed 50L and the Gladiator only consumed 21L? That’s impressive!

 

[dcmdon]

Re the 4:10 gears.

How well it pulls at any given time is driven by the overall gearing. If you had taller axel ratios, you might just have had to drop down another gear in the transmission. Not a big deal.

 

[LittleFish]

Probably more like 45L RAM and 25L Gladiator, just going by the fuel gage readings. Same trip at summer temperatures (give or take a few degrees) and the same load (give or take 50 pounds). The difference in fuel economy is shocking!

 

[LittleFish]

Re the 4:10 gears.

How well it pulls at any given time is driven by the overall gearing. If you had taller axel ratios, you might just have had to drop down another gear in the transmission. Not a big deal.

Just in case I'm not following your comment correctly, you may need to expand on that a bit more for me.

Are you saying that if I didn't have 4:10's and had the standard 3:73's, all I'd need to do is shift the transmission down another gear? If so, that seems like it would be a pretty substantial deal breaker to me.

Ascending that 5% grade to the Summit with 4:10's and loaded, my speed was 70km/h in an 80km/h zone. The transmission was in 3rd and the RPM's were in the 4500RPM-5000RPM range. The Gladiator was working pretty hard to make the power it needed to perform the task at hand. Engine temp and Trans temp were on the high end of the normal operating range. Much hotter and I'd be pulling over to let it cool down. As such, I don't think I will ever attempt the Rocky Mountains with those long 8-9% grades pulling this particular trailer.

If I had 3:73's, I'd absolutely need to drop it down to 2nd gear and I'd be crawling up that ascent, backing up traffic and generally being "that guy" we all hate on the HWY. In the process, I'd be doing what? 50km/h-60km/h (you're not going any faster in 2nd gear).

I'm quite certain that the 4:10's were the correct "factory choice" for my application.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what you're indicating with your comment?

 

[WXman]

So you've discovered the difference between 410 lb/ft of torque (RAM) vs. 269 lb/ft of torque (Jeep).

Now, imagine if you'd checked off the order box for the 442 lb/ft EcoDiesel for your new Jeep!

My prior Gladiator was the Max Tow model and this time I ordered the EcoDiesel. I tow really big, as you may have seen in other threads here. This time I decided to put torque at priority over rated payload/towing because suspension and trailer sway is easy to fix but power and torque isn't. I couldn't be happier. The EcoDiesel pulls like a freight train compared to the Pentastar.

 

[Josh00333]

YA he would have over heated 1/2 up and that motorhome would have had to tow him up the grade....

Now, imagine if you'd checked off the order box for the 442 lb/ft EcoDiesel for your new Jeep!

 

[CFLgladiator]

Lol

 

[dcmdon]

Just in case I'm not following your comment correctly, you may need to expand on that a bit more for me.

Are you saying that if I didn't have 4:10's and had the standard 3:73's, all I'd need to do is shift the transmission down another gear? If so, that seems like it would be a pretty substantial deal breaker to me.

Ascending that 5% grade to the Summit with 4:10's and loaded, my speed was 70km/h in an 80km/h zone. The transmission was in 3rd and the RPM's were in the 4500RPM-5000RPM range. The Gladiator was working pretty hard to make the power it needed to perform the task at hand. Engine temp and Trans temp were on the high end of the normal operating range. Much hotter and I'd be pulling over to let it cool down. As such, I don't think I will ever attempt the Rocky Mountains with those long 8-9% grades pulling this particular trailer.

If I had 3:73's, I'd absolutely need to drop it down to 2nd gear and I'd be crawling up that ascent, backing up traffic and generally being "that guy" we all hate on the HWY. In the process, I'd be doing what? 50km/h-60km/h (you're not going any faster in 2nd gear).

I'm quite certain that the 4:10's were the correct "factory choice" for my application.

Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's what you're indicating with your comment?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I don't know the overall gear ratios in the transmission. But dropping down another gear is the same as having a lower axel ratio.

Where the axel ratios really matter is at the extremes. If you are in 1st gear, you can't go any lower.

So tat that point 4.10s really matter.

On the high end, a guy with 37s and 3.73s may find that his transmission never shifts above 6th gear. He's not using the top 2 gears. Regearing to something above 4.10s will let the engine use all 8 gears.

Re heat. Heat is a function of how much power you are asking the engine to make.

It doesn't matter if you are foot to the floor at 3000 rpms in 3rd gear or half throttle at 5000 rpms in 2nd gear. It doesn't matter what your gearing is. If you are going up a given grade on a given day with a given load, the only way to reduce temps is to slow down. Speed requires power. Power makes heat.

The more power the engine is being asked to make, the more heat it will also make.

Re changing the gearing. I'd either keep current gearing or re-gear based on how the truck drives the other 99% of the time that you are driving it. I can't see what the photo shows, but if its on stock tires, there really isn't much to gain by putting 4.10s on it.

The motor will turn higher rpm at highway speeds, so it may not need to downshift from 8th as often. That might be more pleasant. But it will also be louder since its turning more RPMs.

I hope this all makes sense. If not, ask away.

 

[LittleFish]

So you've discovered the difference between 410 lb/ft of torque (RAM) vs. 269 lb/ft of torque (Jeep).

Now, imagine if you'd checked off the order box for the 442 lb/ft EcoDiesel for your new Jeep!

My prior Gladiator was the Max Tow model and this time I ordered the EcoDiesel. I tow really big, as you may have seen in other threads here. This time I decided to put torque at priority over rated payload/towing because suspension and trailer sway is easy to fix but power and torque isn't. I couldn't be happier. The EcoDiesel pulls like a freight train compared to the Pentastar.

I seriously considered the Diesel until I looked into the cost of a typical Oil Change on them and that turned me off the Diesel in a hurry.

 

[LittleFish]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

I don't know the overall gear ratios in the transmission. But dropping down another gear is the same as having a lower axel ratio.

Where the axel ratios really matter is at the extremes. If you are in 1st gear, you can't go any lower.

So tat that point 4.10s really matter.

On the high end, a guy with 37s and 3.73s may find that his transmission never shifts above 6th gear. He's not using the top 2 gears. Regearing to something above 4.10s will let the engine use all 8 gears.

Re heat. Heat is a function of how much power you are asking the engine to make.

It doesn't matter if you are foot to the floor at 3000 rpms in 3rd gear or half throttle at 5000 rpms in 2nd gear. It doesn't matter what your gearing is. If you are going up a given grade on a given day with a given load, the only way to reduce temps is to slow down. Speed requires power. Power makes heat.

The more power the engine is being asked to make, the more heat it will also make.

Re changing the gearing. I'd either keep current gearing or re-gear based on how the truck drives the other 99% of the time that you are driving it. I can't see what the photo shows, but if its on stock tires, there really isn't much to gain by putting 4.10s on it.

The motor will turn higher rpm at highway speeds, so it may not need to downshift from 8th as often. That might be more pleasant. But it will also be louder since its turning more RPMs.

I hope this all makes sense. If not, ask away.

Then I do believe I’m following you correctly. Same truck with taller gearing would mean I’d need to be in 2nd gear (not 3rd) and as such I’d be ascending the even slower. How is that to my advantage? I’m not positive but I don’t believe there’s any transmission differences between the regular truck and that with the Max Tow package.

As for being louder on the HWY…. You get this is a square box on top of a square box with protruding stuff catching the wind everywhere right? There’s so much wind noise that a few hundred RPM’s is not noticed. ?

 

[dcmdon]

If we assume that the lower second gear exactly compensated for the difference between 3.73 and 4.11 gears then your speed would be exactly the same.

If the difference between second and 3rd gear is greater than the difference between the two differentials, then you would go slower at the same RPM. But you could always rev the engine higher to go faster.

If you could get me the actual gear ratios of 2nd and 3rd gear in the transmission, I could do the math.

With all the right numbers, we could plug them into this and come up with RPM at various speeds in each gear with each differential.

But it doesn't change that the overall gearing is what matters.

Overall gearing is a result of the

transmission gear ratio x transfer case gear ratio x axel ratio x tire rolling diameter

Since you aren't changing the transfer case or tire size, we can eliminate those from consideration here.

Here's an example.

if the 2nd gear is 3:1 and the differential is 3.73:1 then the overall ratio is 11.19 : 1
If 3rd gear is 2.72 : 1 and the differential is 4.11 : 1 then the overall ratio is 11.19:1.

Get it. Same gearing, different way to get there. In this situation, your engine will feel the exact same load and go exactly the same speed at a given RPM.

 

[WXman]

I seriously considered the Diesel until I looked into the cost of a typical Oil Change on them and that turned me off the Diesel in a hurry.

Yeah, $77 bucks for an oil and filter change at home is steep. The P-star can be done for $25. True. But at 6-7 MPG savings you make that money back immediately. And the towing ability... drool... it's amazing. I mean, 24 foot enclosed trailer loaded front to back and it holds 8th gear? Get outta' here...

This thing is a game changer.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So you've discovered the difference between 410 lb/ft of torque (RAM) vs. 269 lb/ft of torque (Jeep).

Now, imagine if you'd checked off the order box for the 442 lb/ft EcoDiesel for your new Jeep!

My prior Gladiator was the Max Tow model and this time I ordered the EcoDiesel. I tow really big, as you may have seen in other threads here. This time I decided to put torque at priority over rated payload/towing because suspension and trailer sway is easy to fix but power and torque isn't. I couldn't be happier. The EcoDiesel pulls like a freight train compared to the Pentastar.

You and my former co-worker in networking would have a lot in common. He'd NEVER own a gas powered truck. And I've been with him when he had that Ford diesel running with a load. It was like it wasn't even back there when he accelerated down the road. That diesel - well, it was like it was yawning, bored.
But like you, he towed BIG. Huge camper with big multiple slide-outs, I'd not have even thought about pulling his trailer with my Chevy, especially after seeing how his truck did.

 

[booneja]

Last week, we did a family camping trip up island. I traded in the RAM with the 5.7 HEMI on the Gladiator (see profile pic) and prior to that, I traded a 4dr, 6cyl, 2wd Dakota in on the RAM. Trailer has been the constant variable as I've towed it on the same trip with all 3 trucks. So this review is "real world" experience.

Full tank of fuel leaving the house (habit), and we immediately have a 25km mountain pass to get over. Approximately 1200ft of elevation to reach the summit and then back down again with roughly a 5% grade.

Trailer is 3600 pounds dry. 19ft long, single axle, "off road" lift/tires. 4 passengers and a dog. We never carry water on this trip as the site has hook-ups. Aside from water, we are fully loaded and come in at around +/- 5200 pounds.

Tow vehicle is pretty much a stock Jeep Gladiator with Max Tow, 3.6 gas, trailer brakes, anti sway bar hitch, Air Ride bags in the rear springs.

Crested the Summit with a very watchful eye on the Engine and Transmission temps. Speed limit is 80km/h and I didn't push it past 70 km/h as I was stuck behind a motorhome. There was still some gas pedal to spare but I don't know that I'd push it much harder as it really didn't want to leave 3rd gear. The Gladiator was working pretty hard! On the flatter ground, the truck was happy as can be and towed wonderfully. I don't think I'd attempt a pass through the Rockies with this set up. I think those 8-9% grades would do this little truck in. As it was, temps were in normal operating limits but they were on the higher end of the spectrum.

The RAM had power to spare... 1/4 Throttle and I was maintaining the speed limit. Also had the Air Bags in the RAM.

We formerly had a 2007 Dakota with the 6Cyl and towing slightly less of a load over that Summit had me thinking I was just moments away from turning my hood into a porcupine. My foot was to the floor and I was barely maintaining 60km/h. We set up the campsite, drove to the dealership and bought the RAM. Installed the brake controller in the RAM when I got back to the campsite (that was an expensive trip.... hahaha).

Fuel from Victoria to Nanaimo with this load in the RAM (maintaining the speed limit) would have me sitting at just a hair over half a tank of fuel left (100L tank).

Fuel from Victoria to Nanaimo with the same load in the Gladiator (maintaining the speed limit in all areas except the ascent to the Summit where I was 10km/h below the limit) had me sitting at just under the 3/4 of a tank of fuel left (83L tank).

The fuel economy in the Gladiator was absolutely shocking! I was hopeful that it would have a bit more grunt on the ascent but it wasn't bad considering this is a small truck. I don't know what this run would be like if I didn't have the 4:10 gears in it. I imagine it would be pretty similar to how the Dakota was?

That Malahat can really get ya, stay safe of the island roads

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