For Me, No More Wheeling at Large Events

[WILDHOBO]

You don't leave a guy out in the wilderness like that, period. That's just common trail courtesy not to mention being a decent member of civil society. I've seen it in large groups of other car enthusiasts, too.

Sorry you have to take the truck out of commission. That blows.

Damage is a risk every time we go offroad, but this damage just reminds me of the day. That’s mostly why it took me so long to talk about it.

Sponsored

 

[Mightytalldude]

So this took me a bit to bring myself to post. It was a bit raw for a while. Some of you have been so kind to let me talk it out and vent. Thanks very much to, in no particular order, @Stan H, @Shibbyjeep, @ChrisNLA, @RudeJeepin, @Mightytalldude, @JCappy, and a couple non forum peeps, for taking the time to talk me off the ledge, so to speak. Your support means a ton, and it won’t be forgotten.

So almost a month ago I rolled down to AZ on an invite to do some wheeling. The way I took the invite, it was a vendor customer appreciation run, but no vendor shows, no big deal. Just wheeling and shooting the breeze after. Maybe I missed something, but I had no idea I’d find an event with well over 100 vehicles. I probably wouldn’t have gone, but I was 12 hours from home in a hotel, so screw it. Let’s have some fun. I usually prefer much smaller, no pressure, lower testosterone groups. But oh well. I was still excited to do some rock crawling. I obviously love that stuff.

Friday was super chill. Moderate trail that was just fun. Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine with really tough trails.

Saturday started off great. Did a tough-ish trail that I thoroughly enjoyed. Lots of very impressive rigs. The trail went quickly, so some locals discussed and came up with another trail to run for the second half of the day. No one knew much about the trail, as it was very new. It was crazy difficult, but no regrets in regards to difficulty. I’d legitimately rate it an 11. But that didn’t change how fun it was. I want to stress that the day wasn’t rough because of a rough trail. It went poorly because there were a handful of people there that I could have done without.

I was the smallest rig in the group of roughly 10 vehicles, but wasn’t having trouble keeping up. All the obstacles were hard enough that even the largest rigs had to go slowly. Meaning no one was waiting on little ole me. At some point one jeep had serous front end breakage. Enough that required disassembly, parts, welding, and reassembly. All part of the fun in my opinion. But it obviously took time, and by the time it was moving under its own power, it was sunset.

After that the trail got harder. I’m definitely not documenting every event. It would be a lot. Still no regrets, for a minute…. I was last in the group, but not for any particular reason. Just how we started out. People were getting punchy. I certainly needed to winch and stack rocks a couple times by this point. Winching to me is perfectly fine. Fun even. But others found it less favorable. I heard one time, no more stacking rocks. Just hook up and drag it up! I was not a fan. I like using our brains to figure out the best way to tackle an obstacle. Soon after that, I was on an obstacle that ripped my rear driver fender off, and marred the crap out of my bed. I was repositioning to avoid losing the tail light as well, when I was yelled at by a stranger. The jist was that I should not reposition. I explained that I was trying to avoid further damage, and had some ideas to avoid it, specifically I was going to grab my rear winch to move my rear end out of harms way. I was told straight up, that if I did that, I’d be left out there, all night, alone. Yes. It was described in that detail. They wanted to get to the bar. They couldn’t have cared less about getting vehicles through as carefully as possible. It was extremely disappointing. At one point a little earlier than this, I was told that everyone was waiting on me. That’s complete bull. It was a long day, due to time consuming repairs earlier, none of which were on my Jeep. I was the scapegoat because of my tiny 37’s. Admittedly I lost two beads on this trail, and my co2, and another bottle later successfully rebeaded the tires. So sure, that took a minute. But on a tough trail, that’s just part of the game in my opinion. Things happen and you adjust. This was not that day. I asked one guy yelling at me what I had done to piss home off. I said I was under the impression that this was supposed to be a just a fun day of wheeling. His response was, “I’m not that guy”. So weird. Just not a cool person in my opinion. Too much of a hothead.

Fast forward to much later after the last major obstacle. The vehicles in front of me hit 4hi and were gone. No radio information about the way out. I attempted to find my way, and I certainly have ample offroad lighting. But it was a maze. Finally I tried the radio and found that most everyone was off the trail. After an hour or so was able to find the way out. I must give credit to the few jeeps that came back in for me, and two others separate from me. But if we’d have stayed together earlier, it would never have happened.

I feel like I’m rambling, but I’m doing my best to describe the day, without calling anyone specifically out. I don’t find that to be productive. But it’s hard not to, even weeks later. I maintain to this day that the trail sucked because of the attitudes of 4 or 5 people. But it was so severe that it’s left a mark.

The end result is a trashed driver bedside, trashed fender, and the worst is the passenger side. The rock slide steps with the armor weren’t up to the task. After 5 years of tough-ass trails, it was enough. A single impact crushed the step and pushed all three sections of the rocket panel in about 2 inches. Thankfully the doors still function. So it’s going to be a while before it’s trail worthy again. Lots of panels need to be cut out and replacements welded in. I don’t have that skill, so it’s off to a body shop. They’re estimating 2 months until it’s done. I must say, it’s impressive that the steps still operate. It took some replacement rivets to make sure the armor didn’t fall of on the interstate, but they still open and close. I had fender clips with me, so was able to drive home without highway rocks hitting the bed above and behind. But it’s broken in like three places. Lots of washers to get it reattached for the drive


I might have left it if it was just the bedside. But every time I see the damage I remember the people on that trail. I’m done wheeling with large groups. If I ever hit something like EJS, it’ll be for the vendor shows only. My style is slow and steady, with the goal of no damage, or as little as possible. I’m done with measuring egos in large groups of randoms.

Sorry for the long story. I needed to finally put it out there. Life is a learning experience. I learned plenty on that day.

The WILDHOBO will return. Bigger, faster, stronger. Ok. Not faster. That’s ridiculous.

One of the reasons I don't do large events. I stick with trusted crew, trusted spotters, ones that won't leave someone like this, or force a situation of damage or even worse, injury or worse. With this one, the focus was on one or two. Sorry for the outcome. This was leading the group.

 

[WILDHOBO]

Good Story - Good Info and reminder - and its unfortunate - this seems to happen in all aspects of life - you were the stranger in the group - the core of the group had their own plans the whole time and kept to themselves - If you invite someone to try something, you the experienced person are responsible for em, in terms of making sure they are having fun and enjoying themselves just like anyone else. - More annoying in a formation line, normally, the most experienced should be in the back to ensure everyone gets to destination.....etc. That's the responsibility.

But Ill divest into that's the difference between a leader and a boss. Who has respect and knowledge - and who demands fealty....etc. Just look at Wolves - the Leader is in the back so they can watch their pack and ensure no one is left behind and bring up the rear....etc.

Thank you for sharing Hobo - accountability is good, it allows ppl to learn and grow and have "change" sprout and grow to be better.

Tough day, but it’ll change how I handle situations like this in the future. I should have let them leave when they threatened it. It would have been more fun to figure it out alone. Even if it took 12 hours. Who cares. I keep going over it in my mind to figure out how it could have turned out better. That’s all I’ve come up with.

 

[WILDHOBO]

One of the reasons I don't do large events. I stick with trusted crew, trusted spotters, ones that won't leave someone like this, or force a situation of damage or even worse, injury or worse. With this one, the focus was on one or two. Sorry for the outcome. This was leading the group.

They weren’t leading. And they were a genuine pleasure. I’d never met them before this, and they were fantastic. They were the ones that went back into the trail to find the three jeeps that got turned around.

 

[Mightytalldude]

They weren’t leading. And they were a genuine pleasure. I’d never met them before this, and they were fantastic. They were the ones that went back into the trail to find the three jeeps that got turned around.

My apologies and correction.

 

[WILDHOBO]

My apologies and correction.

No worries.

 

[RudeJeepin]

This isn't the first time I've heard @WILDHOBO tell the story. I still have a hard time believing that there are people like this in the off-road community. Don't get me wrong, I believe Dan, it just sucks that some people are this way.
Dan knows my thoughts on this and I'll just leave it there.

 

[WILDHOBO]

This isn't the first time I've heard @WILDHOBO tell the story. I still have a hard time believing that there are people like this in the off-road community. Don't get me wrong, I believe Dan, it just sucks that some people are this way.
Dan knows my thoughts on this and I'll just leave it there.

I do. And thanks.

 

[Jaxmax]

I was into Jeeping in early eighties and drifted out , ended up in a 21 Mojave and the love all came back but had to start all over. Went to Rausch creek with a few members here , place was crowded and we did get together , but one member took the extra effort to just berate my ride as , stock tires will not do it, no lift, and the RSI cap on the back is just going to be a problem for all of us, why are you here? My dear loving wife Pat looked at me and said let’s have a good time! Well it started off that as two of us were airing down the rest left, that’s when I met “JTBurns ” or Joe ,we talked and said hey first time is the charm and him and his two boys went through the day, scored the coveted now discontinued Trail 11, but he pushed me to go and had a great day. Another time it was “AmishMike” and “KrashEd” on a two day trip a year later or so to Rausch creek and AOOA, Ed showed what a guy in a lifted built Glady does with lesser vehicles he lead the way fixed a broken Wrangler and we had a great time, at AOOA! The next day after the rest left Mike took just the the two of us through a lot of Rausch Creek and got me through trails like Crawler Ridge and Crawl Daddy, stuff I never did before and team work and spotting was great. Last year was New Hampshire Jericho Mountain where we ran with “Supazuk” Jay, “40x40” John and Glen Beck, Glen was really just starting out , but that trail made him a quick learner and he was great by the halfway mark. We all ran a hard trail I think all had damage but had a great time!
Dan , I am in the same situation as you on almost every ride I do ,not lifted ,10”x33” tires , but armored to hell with a winch on the front, and know I can get through or go around if it comes to it.
Dan instead of swearing off large gatherings , perhaps look around a bit and hook up with a few newbies looking for help, they are the ones that continue the sport, and can learn “The Way” you are too valuable to not pass on the good feelings a guy gets getting through in the beginning.
Ya never know Dan we might ride together , and I’ll be at the back with my unlifted small tired Jeep, but difference is I know we won’t leave each other and you will never underestimate an old man and his Jeep!….Jack

 

[tj3089]

That really sucks that they treated you like that and that they started rushing to the bar. I hate that mentality and would rather get everyone out safely. It's one of the reason I wheel alone or with one or 2 close friends.

I even got out of the jeep scene for a while and started riding dirt bikes and adventure bikes for the solo time. Some of the groups that I went off-roading with in the Jeep were like the ones you described and it just didn't fit my vibe.

To be fair tho, I did have a couple run-ins with some douche dirt bike riders that will leave you in the middle of nowhere if you're too slow.

It's kinda like finding decent life friends. You have to weed out the ones that don't get along with you and that aren't good people.

Most of the people that I meet off-roading have been very pleasant, but there are the bad apples out there that ruin it for everybody and they usually drive SxS's .

 

[WILDHOBO]

I was into Jeeping in early eighties and drifted out , ended up in a 21 Mojave and the love all came back but had to start all over. Went to Rausch creek with a few members here , place was crowded and we did get together , but one member took the extra effort to just berate my ride as , stock tires will not do it, no lift, and the RSI cap on the back is just going to be a problem for all of us, why are you here? My dear loving wife Pat looked at me and said let’s have a good time! Well it started off that as two of us were airing down the rest left, that’s when I met “JTBurns ” or Joe ,we talked and said hey first time is the charm and him and his two boys went through the day, scored the coveted now discontinued Trail 11, but he pushed me to go and had a great day. Another time it was “AmishMike” and “KrashEd” on a two day trip a year later or so to Rausch creek and AOOA, Ed showed what a guy in a lifted built Glady does with lesser vehicles he lead the way fixed a broken Wrangler and we had a great time, at AOOA! The next day after the rest left Mike took just the the two of us through a lot of Rausch Creek and got me through trails like Crawler Ridge and Crawl Daddy, stuff I never did before and team work and spotting was great. Last year was New Hampshire Jericho Mountain where we ran with “Supazuk” Jay, “40x40” John and Glen Beck, Glen was really just starting out , but that trail made him a quick learner and he was great by the halfway mark. We all ran a hard trail I think all had damage but had a great time!
Dan , I am in the same situation as you on almost every ride I do ,not lifted ,10”x33” tires , but armored to hell with a winch on the front, and know I can get through or go around if it comes to it.
Dan instead of swearing off large gatherings , perhaps look around a bit and hook up with a few newbies looking for help, they are the ones that continue the sport, and can learn “The Way” you are too valuable to not pass on the good feelings a guy gets getting through in the beginning.
Ya never know Dan we might ride together , and I’ll be at the back with my unlifted small tired Jeep, but difference is I know we won’t leave each other and you will never underestimate an old man and his Jeep!….Jack

Kind and wise words as always, Jack. And you know I respect and appreciate your advice. Great perspective. Thanks.

 

[WILDHOBO]

That really sucks that they treated you like that and that they started rushing to the bar. I hate that mentality and would rather get everyone out safely. It's one of the reason I wheel alone or with one or 2 close friends.

I even got out of the jeep scene for a while and started riding dirt bikes and adventure bikes for the solo time. Some of the groups that I went off-roading with in the Jeep were like the ones you described and it just didn't fit my vibe.

To be fair tho, I did have a couple run-ins with some douche dirt bike riders that will leave you in the middle of nowhere if you're too slow.

It's kinda like finding decent life friends. You have to weed out the ones that don't get along with you and that aren't good people.

Most of the people that I made off-roading have been very pleasant, but there are the bad apples out there that ruin it for everybody and they usually drive SxS's .

When people act like that. It’s frustrating for sure. I’m sorry you’ve had that experience. While I’m glad I’m not alone in seeing that side, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I hope you never have it happen again.

 

[Vtur]

That sucks. I can't imagine how you feels on the drive home. I would've told them to fuk off and find my own way out. The locals usually don't mind banging up their rigs for clicks because they live nearby, while others has to drives hours back home.

As an introvert person, i love going solo or with my wife and kid. I can stops anytime, camps anywhere and do whatever i wants to without the anxiety of dealing with knuckleheads.

 

[Gvsukids]

@WILDHOBO ,
I understand your situation and I'm sorry you had to go through that. A long time ago we stopped running with an organized group because they gave us the cold shoulder

I’ve never been clear on if off-road damage is covered.

Our damage off-road was considered an at-fault accident, but insurance covered it. Then raised our rates.

You have to weed out the ones that don't get along with you

We use that method with our group. My wife makes that call.

but one member took the extra effort to just berate my ride as , stock tires will not do it,

That's why I have held out from going to 35s; I don't want to minimize somebody else's vehicle, because I was there once.

 

[VA6489]

@WILDHOBO
Sorry to hear of your tale. I have been wheeling for 40+ years. The community has changed quite a bit. Smaller groups tend to have nicer people a that are not fueled by others egos. A trail 11 out of 10 is a tough trail and tend to draw those who have more money than brains fueled by bigger egos. Not always the case but it happens.
I have lead groups in the Topless for Tata's organization and it still amazes me how stupid folks can be. I think they take it as a challenge. I have also wheeled with a self proclaimed Elitist group that frowned on winching, stacking rocks(what they called Road building) and Damage, was a badge of honor to them.... funny how groups like that tend to fall apart after a bit.

Unfortunately this is what happens when a sport explodes like ours has. People get stupid, trails get closed, and they just get ugly as it doesn't fit their "style" or time line.

Recently ran a West Coast trail. Planned on Three days , the group pushed and we ran very long day one and pushed even harder day two. Totally missing the point of enjoy the trail and view. Lesson learned, run at your own pace. I am confident enough to say Have fun I will see you when I see you and let them "leave me behind" .

I always work toward the least or the slowest member of the group. No one gets left behind. Schedules are nice but much like sailing they are often optimistic at best. A 4 hr trail ride can turn into a all day event.

I no longer have expectations from people, they usually show the true self soon enough. When I lead a group I also have some rules for capability, if you are going to take you stock JLU on a 11 out of 10 trail I am going to explain why that is not a great idea and what could happen. I have also had these very same folks loose their ever-loving mind when they get a scratch or dent on a trail they were advised not to attempt.

I am a military type I will not leave any one behind. I am usually the first to jump in and lend a hand. I run with a small group that shares this mentality. Now I tend to let those who drive big egos do their thing and will watch from the side lines until they are done. Down side is it tears up decent trails.

Keep the faith, there are good wheelers still in the community.

Sponsored