Got the bad news today

[JTGuy]

Seems the dealers are always looking for a way to not do it under warranty. yet they sell extended warranty like it will fix everything for nothing,, lol . As you can see in my signature mine is really modded out. I wonder how much they would charge me to tell me if my trans and other drivetrain parts are still covered. Even the electronics would be a good question.

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[ShadowsPapa]

Seems the dealers are always looking for a way to not do it under warranty. yet they sell extended warranty like it will fix everything for nothing,, lol . As you can see in my signature mine is really modded out. I wonder how much they would charge me to tell me if my trans and other drivetrain parts are still covered. Even the electronics would be a good question.

They know I push snow, they knew on my other JTs that I'd made mods and pushed snow, they knew I'd made a lot of electrical mods or additions, never batted an eye.
Heck, I drove into the dealership with the snow plow on it before and told them of the lift and mods on it.

 

[JTGuy]

The gears and 37s would be the thing. maybe not.

 

[Stan H]

They can manufacturer all kinds of excuses to get out of warranty work. Driving too fast, too slow, unapproved blinker fluid....

I said it before say it again the best warranty is just fixing stuff yourself at most of these joints.

 

[biodiesel]

I said it before say it again the best warranty is just fixing stuff yourself at most of these joints.

Most consumers don't have the knowledge, skill set, tools, shop, or the desire to take on big repairs. I'm not a mechanic, but I know a lot of mechanics. They tell me that there aren't a lot of good mechanics that work at dealerships because most of those guys will go work for independent shops to make more money.

I live in diesel country, so our dealerships have several fulltime diesel techs, and many of them are very good. But we also have a lot of independent shops with fantastic mechanics. After being on forums for many years, I can say that my experience with the dealer is not the same all over the country. I've heard some horror stories about very incompetent service advisors, dealer techs, and dealership service departments.

 

[NC_Overland]

I said it before say it again the best warranty is just fixing stuff yourself at most of these joints.

I understand your sentiment, but with the proprietary software, a skilled owner can’t even do a lot of repairs without expensive equipment and paying for licensing.

Plus, for major engine repairs, most people can’t even change their own oil, let alone change out cam phasers or other things like that.

 

[WilldWilly]

It's not the engine. It’s the techs at dealerships not wanting to do warranty work because they don’t get paid the same hourly rate for warranty work. The system is broken has been for decades.

The engine definitely isn’t junk. There are tons of 2020 3.6l JTs and JLs with 100-200k miles on the engines with no work done and they’re fine.

You mean the flat rate techs that do 5-hour warranty jobs in 3.5 hours? Not all jobs are gravy; buy I have never met a starving dealer technician. And when did the techs dictate the repair other than report to the service writter what they found? I worked a few years in the Service dept of a dealership. The moment something got opened up it was covered. Other than neglect from lack of services.
I did not mean the 3.6 specifically, I meant the entire auto industry in general.

 

[Mr Miami]

Most consumers don't have the knowledge, skill set, tools, shop, or the desire to take on big repairs. I'm not a mechanic, but I know a lot of mechanics. They tell me that there aren't a lot of good mechanics that work at dealerships because most of those guys will go work for independent shops to make more money.

I live in diesel country, so our dealerships have several fulltime diesel techs, and many of them are very good. But we also have a lot of independent shops with fantastic mechanics. After being on forums for many years, I can say that my experience with the dealer is not the same all over the country. I've heard some horror stories about very incompetent service advisors, dealer techs, and dealership service departments.

I don't know a lot of mechanics like you, but I know one at a dealership (GMC) and agreed with me that what dealers do, in most cases, is not to fix but replace. I could agree with him more.

I recall taking my TJ into the dealership for a burned out backup light (it was more than just the bulb) and the little thing the bulb snaps into. It appeared burned and the thing was soldered or spot welded to the rest of the rear light box. Well, you guessed it, the only way to "fix" it was replace the entire rear driver side light thing (about $125 for the part plus labor for about $205 total) for something I later fixed myself with a new plug, drilling a small hole and a small screw for about $5). But of course, the dealer cannot fix it that way. I actually did it since I used a part that doesn't have a Mopar part number; just a light plug from Advanced Auto.

And I am not close to considering myself a mechanic as many are here. The dealership would have unscrewed the 4 bolts that hold the light assembly to the body, unplugged the power line, bolted on a new assembly, and after tax, 10% shop supplies, and whatever they charge, have about $240 less in my wallet.

Think about all the other stuff we pay dealers for that need to be "replaced."

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I don't know a lot of mechanics like you, but I know one at a dealership (GMC) and agreed with me that what dealers do, in most cases, is not to fix but replace.

There are multiple reasons for that, and it's been coming for a long time -
It's more cost-effective to replace, especially in cases of warranty and TSBs where they are told "this is how to resolve this issue",

And

The days of being at the top of your game in all things is long past - I know great engine people who would struggle with an 8 speed automatic, or people great in the electric systems who would spend twice as long as a specialist setting up new gears in that differential.

It's sort of like doctors and attorneys - you don't use a corporate law attorney for a divorce, and you don't want a brain surgeon messing with a broken ankle.

With labor rates what they are - I'd rather have a dealership swap out certain parts than screwing around for hours "fixing" it.

I grew up in this field where troubleshooting, and the ability to finely diagnose and repair were king and highly valued. I was hired at one job due to my ability to troubleshoot - diagnose - even what the shop manager couldn't do. It was valued back then.
Not so much today - busier shops, extremely complex systems, heck, we'd take the time to repair heads with new seats and guides and more - not today.

 

[Mr Miami]

There are multiple reasons for that, and it's been coming for a long time -
It's more cost-effective to replace, especially in cases of warranty and TSBs where they are told "this is how to resolve this issue",

And

The days of being at the top of your game in all things is long past - I know great engine people who would struggle with an 8 speed automatic, or people great in the electric systems who would spend twice as long as a specialist setting up new gears in that differential.

It's sort of like doctors and attorneys - you don't use a corporate law attorney for a divorce, and you don't want a brain surgeon messing with a broken ankle.

With labor rates what they are - I'd rather have a dealership swap out certain parts than screwing around for hours "fixing" it.

I grew up in this field where troubleshooting, and the ability to finely diagnose and repair were king and highly valued. I was hired at one job due to my ability to troubleshoot - diagnose - even what the shop manager couldn't do. It was valued back then.
Not so much today - busier shops, extremely complex systems, heck, we'd take the time to repair heads with new seats and guides and more - not today.

Yes, I totally agree that's the way things are done today and in many if not most cases, things are more profitable to the dealership to have people factory-trained to analyze, diagnose, troubleshoot and replace; not fix.

My age is showing also. We are not living in the 70's, 80's or any other prior decade. When people go to have their vehicle fixed, most don't give a rat's behind about how it got fixed, especially when under any type of warranty. They want to know what time the vehicle is done so they can pick it up.

I guess I was just recollecting the past. Let me put on my bedroom slippers and take my medication.

 

[Freems]

There are multiple reasons for that, and it's been coming for a long time -
It's more cost-effective to replace, especially in cases of warranty and TSBs where they are told "this is how to resolve this issue",

And

The days of being at the top of your game in all things is long past - I know great engine people who would struggle with an 8 speed automatic, or people great in the electric systems who would spend twice as long as a specialist setting up new gears in that differential.

It's sort of like doctors and attorneys - you don't use a corporate law attorney for a divorce, and you don't want a brain surgeon messing with a broken ankle.

With labor rates what they are - I'd rather have a dealership swap out certain parts than screwing around for hours "fixing" it.

I grew up in this field where troubleshooting, and the ability to finely diagnose and repair were king and highly valued. I was hired at one job due to my ability to troubleshoot - diagnose - even what the shop manager couldn't do. It was valued back then.
Not so much today - busier shops, extremely complex systems, heck, we'd take the time to repair heads with new seats and guides and more - not today.

The bulk of auto body shops made this turn years ago, they replace everything with new parts they don’t repair anything more.

 

[biodiesel]

There are multiple reasons for that, and it's been coming for a long time -
It's more cost-effective to replace, especially in cases of warranty and TSBs where they are told "this is how to resolve this issue",

In some cases, part swapping works out to the consumer's benefit.

My EcoDiesel was still under warranty at 93,000 miles when the water pump developed a leak. It would only leak when ambient temps got down to the teens or single digits. It wouldn't leak once warmed up or when the nighttime temps stayed above freezing. The dealer tech said it was common for these water pumps to leak at the o-rings. But since it was under warranty, they went ahead and replaced both the water pump and o-rings since it's too labor intensive just to replace the o-rings. Heaven forbid the water pump go out 6 months later and have to go back through all that labor cost.

Also, it was pretty common for the DPF studs to break on the EcoDiesel. Ram could have forced dealers to push out the studs and replaced with bolts, but instead, Ram replaced the entire DPF ($2,000 part) at no cost to EcoDiesel owners.

In my opinion, FCA (now Stellantis) has done a good job warranting parts on the EcoDiesel. Part swapping makes the most sense when under warranty.

 

[ChrisNLA]

The bulk of auto body shops made this turn years ago, they replace everything with new parts they don’t repair anything more.

This replace instead of repair reminds me of several instances of my over the years.

Re-building the gauge cluster of my 2005 Silverado many years ago (replacing the stepper motors on the circuit board).

More recently, a Vizio 55" TV I have died. Through some research I determined the power board for the backlighting had died. I took the TV apart, re-soldered the power board, and put it back together. TV still works five years later.

Door on my microwave broke. Took it apart, rebuilt it, and put it back on.

Two burners on my glass top stove were performing erratically. I replaced the rheostat controls - back going! Stove is many years old. Should work many more.

We really try to repair where it makes sense. I know this is slightly off track from cars, but still...

 

[Freems]

This replace instead of repair reminds me of several instances of my over the years.

Re-building the gauge cluster of my 2005 Silverado many years ago (replacing the stepper motors on the circuit board).

More recently, a Vizio 55" TV I have died. Through some research I determined the power board for the backlighting had died. I took the TV apart, re-soldered the power board, and put it back together. TV still works five years later.

Door on my microwave broke. Took it apart, rebuilt it, and put it back on.

Two burners on my glass top stove were performing erratically. I replaced the rheostat controls - back going! Stove is many years old. Should work many more.

We really try to repair where it makes sense. I know this is slightly off track from cars, but still...

You make a great point, but the new generations seemed to have lost their taste for repairing anything…just throw it away. I learned to do repairs because I had too. (yep, old guy)

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The bulk of auto body shops made this turn years ago, they replace everything with new parts they don’t repair anything more.

Show me a body shop employee who could do what I did and remove all of the dents in my Eagle's valance and remove the dent from the roof - and use NO filler at all, not a bit. It's an art I won't claim to have mastered or even be half-way there, but many would have either used some filler or replaced the part (well, good luck finding those parts for a 1982)
You can buy many body parts for less than the cost of a skilled person ( should you find out) removing the damage.

Some of us have no choice - there are no new parts, anywhere in the world, and probably never will be.

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