Got the bad news today

[SoK66]

Charging you $3700 for a teardown to see if it's a HEAD GASKET? He can tell if it's internal (ie, a head gasket) with a system pressure test. If it's a Mopar warranty take it to another dealer.

I tell you, having made a living in the automotive service indudtry, when I read stuff like this I want put a bag over my head. And it's only getting worse because competent, ethical people are leaving the business in droves.

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[ShadowsPapa]

If you have the Mopar warranty, I don't understand why they would charge you to diagnose a problem as you mentioned.

Pretty standard for many shops and not a big deal at all. They have to state that up front in case they find something going on where it won't be covered for some weird reason.
It's typically standard jargon like the standard legal jargon you can pretty much ignore but they must say it.

I was caught one time when we owned a Stratus for a couple of years - the extended warranty covered the head gasket replacement, then when it happened again, they denied it. We traded the thing where it sat - for a Jeep.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Charging you $3700 for a teardown to see if it's a HEAD GASKET? He can tell if it's internal (ie, a head gasket) with a system pressure test. If it's a Mopar warranty take it to another dealer.

What if it's not a head gasket? You don't know until tear-down. Been there.

 

[SoK66]

OP, have you checked it to see if the coolant level is low? Is it emitting white smoke when running? If the tech "smells coolant", did he check to see if the oil cooler housing is leaking? If the seals on the oil filter/cooler assembly are leaking coolant may accumulate in the valley between the heads. That will cause a coolant smell.

Prior to this have there been any issues with it using coolant? Have you had to add any? Whe running does the engine make any mechanical sounds, noises, ticking, knocking, etc?

 

[Hootbro]

Yeah, I do not know why it is being lost that the OP would be out of pocket up front? Just telling him what the charge would be if the Mopar extended warranty administrators decide it is not a covered repair. The dealership is just the go between and is not going to be risking holding the bag for unpaid work.

Seems to be somewhat of a same quagmire even with third party warranty (service contract) companies that do the same thing as it puts the impetus back on the consumer to make sure the juice is worth the squeeze before going ahead with such things.

I will say with rough math, $3700 at a $200 shop rate is 18.5 hours of work and that does seem a bit excessive.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Whe running does the engine make any mechanical sounds, noises, ticking, knocking, etc?

That would be pretty severe! I've never worked on one that had a head gasket, cracked block or cracked head that made a sound out of the ordinary....................

Unless you are suggesting it might not be an internal leak causing the misfire.

 

[SoK66]

Well it’s pretty simple. Diagnosing this issue doesn’t take 18.5 hours! Simple external tests by someone competent should be able to pin it down. System pressure test, leak down test, etc. If it’s “missing on all cylinders” then it’s unlikely it’s head gasket, which would only affect one bank of cylinders.

If the system is pressurized and there’s a significant pressure loss and no external leak, then it’s internal. If you do a leak down test one cylinder at a time you will pin down where the leak is. This is essentially diagnostics 101.

 

[biodiesel]

OP, have you checked it to see if the coolant level is low? Is it emitting white smoke when running? If the tech "smells coolant", did he check to see if the oil cooler housing is leaking?

I prefer pulling an oil sample and having it tested. The only downside is that it can take a week or two to get results back.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well it’s pretty simple. Diagnosing this issue doesn’t take 18.5 hours! Simple external tests by someone competent should be able to pin it down. System pressure test, leak down test, etc. If it’s “missing on all cylinders” then it’s unlikely it’s head gasket, which would only affect one bank of cylinders.

If the system is pressurized and there’s a significant pressure loss and no external leak, then it’s internal. If you do a leak down test one cylinder at a time you will pin down where the leak is. This is essentially diagnostics 101.

Read his other posts on page 1 - it's not all cylinders. It's multiple cylinders.
Multiple can mean 2 - he said it wrong.
1 or multiple - if it's two cylinders, can be head gasket (or other things, of course) but 2 usually means it's not the block itself.

Doesn't have to show significant pressure lost - it can be, and often is, a minimal loss taking perhaps 30 minutes to show much loss.
I'd done my share of cooling system pressure tests over 50 years, and a gasket, head of block, may not show a pressure drop very fast - it can take a while and maybe drop only a couple of pounds over that time.

I prefer pulling an oil sample and having it tested. The only downside is that it can take a week or two to get results back.

There are a lot of ways - including testing for combustion gases in the cooling system, checking spark plugs, borescope, cooling system pressure testing...............

 

[SoK66]

Read his other posts on page 1 - it's not all cylinders. It's multiple cylinders.
Multiple can mean 2 - he said it wrong.
1 or multiple - if it's two cylinders, can be head gasket (or other things, of course) but 2 usually means it's not the block itself.

Doesn't have to show significant pressure lost - it can be, and often is, a minimal loss taking perhaps 30 minutes to show much loss.
I'd done my share of cooling system pressure tests over 50 years, and a gasket, head of block, may not show a pressure drop very fast - it can take a while and maybe drop only a couple of pounds over that time.



There are a lot of ways - including testing for combustion gases in the cooling system, checking spark plugs, borescope, cooling system pressure testing...............

Yes and if it’s a cylinder head or block crack or just gasket you can relatively quickly pinpoint the issue. Just examining the spark plug tips for example. If the all look exactly the same it tells you the issue isn’t likely an internal coolant leak. Etc. None of this requires 18.5 hours.

 

[ecidiego]

How could a Jeep tech be short on work? lol

 

[cuteangel1007]

All I can say is WTF? At 40000 miles, a head gasket goes bad?

Has anyone else had this problem?

Kent N6WT
[/QUOTE]

Yes, my engine was replaced at 59k miles, same exact issue. I bought mine used, no warranty.
My service guy at the dealership contacted Jeep corp and they paid 60% of the engine replacement. Because of no coolant in the reservoir, the engine block was warped from overheating. I had always been watching the gages, but there was never any warning of overheating. That’s because “the thermostat is in the reservoir, no coolant, no temps gage” which doesn’t make a lick of sense to me, why isn’t there something attached elsewhere also?
Even after Jeep paid 60% I still had to pay $7800.
Good luck. I also had to take mine back-the first time I took it home the SAME issue happened on the way home. Check engine light flashing and beeping, rough running, ends up it was a faulty rocker arm (covered under new engine warranty) and I did NOT have to pay. Just got my Gldi back a couple weeks ago.

 

[Mr Miami]

How could a Jeep tech be short on work? lol

If he is waiting 6 months for parts to fix stuff. Who knows.

 

[ecidiego]

If he is waiting 6 months for parts to fix stuff. Who knows.

Now that's a solid point

 

[N6WT]

OP, have you checked it to see if the coolant level is low? Is it emitting white smoke when running? If the tech "smells coolant", did he check to see if the oil cooler housing is leaking? If the seals on the oil filter/cooler assembly are leaking coolant may accumulate in the valley between the heads. That will cause a coolant smell.

Prior to this have there been any issues with it using coolant? Have you had to add any? Whe running does the engine make any mechanical sounds, noises, ticking, knocking, etc?

Okay, I was not going to mention this, but I took the truck in for a 40000-mile service back in late October. In the service was a radiator flush and coolant change. It took them half a day, and I got the truck back. I drove the truck home and parked it in the garage. As I stepped out of the truck, I smelled coolant. I halfway thought that they may have spilled some and was about to walk into the house. I decided to open the hood and have a look. The first thing I looked at was the coolant reservoir. It was full to the point it was overflowing.

I called the dealer to complain that I thought the tech had overfilled it and left it that way. The first thing out of the service adviser's mouth was "there must be something wrong with the truck". I thought to myself, that's BS. I told the SA that I had removed some coolant, so it was no longer overfilled. He wanted me to bring it in to look at it. I took it in a few days later, and he apologized for "the inconvenience". He said it should not be a problem, but the truck would smell like coolant for a few days.

I have not put more than 400 miles on the truck since then. The coolant smell did go away, and I have not thought about it since. I do not think they documented the coolant overfill.

To answer the question, yes, I did check the coolant, and it was slightly low before I took the truck to the dealer a few days ago. There was no ticking, knocking, or anything else before I started it that morning, and it ran rough.

Also, when I opened the hood to look to see if the coolant was low, there was a bolt that was stuck in between the wiring and the fender on drivers side. I looked around and found the bolt was missing from the windshield washer fluid reservoir to hold it to the fender. That bolt also holds the PCM that is attached to the reservoir. I put the bolt back in. My feeling is that when they did the service, the tech removed it for some reason and forgot to put it back. So the PCM was bouncing around. Could that be part of the problem? IDK.

Until that service, I thought this dealer was good. Now I'm not so sure. But now they have my truck!

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