GVWR, hardly any sag at all...

[PyrPatriot]

So prior to going wheeling with the family I went and weighed the JT with us all in it. We were right at 6000lbs with a full tank of gas.

The GVWR is 6250, so I was shocked. No way! I only have 250lbs of payload left?

Well, some simple math

Max Payload is 1550lbs
I replaced the stock bumper with a steel rubicon one and skid plate: 125lbs
Winch and plate: 125lbs
Occupants: 500lbs
Gas: 130lbs
Rubber bed mat: 90lbs
Gravel to help from fishtailing: 200lbs
Guns, ammo, gear: 50lbs
Misc recovery gear, tools, diaper bag, etc: 100lbs

Weight estimates are on the generous side where I dont have mfg weights given on hand.

So 1320 of sprung weight
Leaves about 250lbs like the

Very surprising. And leaves a lot to be considered when I build the rig to overland with rack, rtt, and gear! Obviously 200lbs of rock can go. The weight is still concerning.

However, I see no noticeable sag at all nor handling differences

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[smlobx]

I’m not sure if the gas is part of the equation..

 

[PyrPatriot]

I’m not sure if the gas is part of the equation..

It is

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

GVWR is all in including that fry under the seat and all the sand you tracked on the carpet.

So yeah, funny where all the weight goes when you aren't paying attention. A camp trailer starts to make a lot of sense when you start cracking the math down.

 

[PyrPatriot]

GVWR is all in including that fry under the seat and all the sand you tracked on the carpet.

So yeah, funny where all the weight goes when you aren't paying attention. A camp trailer starts to make a lot of sense when you start cracking the math down.

I honestly think 2000lbs distributed would not be too much. No sag on either end noticed, least not anywhere near what it looked like with 1000lbs in the bed

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

No 2000 wouldn't be too much, I was referring to how quickly you stack on the pounds loading it up.

1000 in the bed is almost a point load since the bed is so small and most of it past the axle, squat city! Spreading it around is going to make a big difference. I've been wondering how much cab to tub articulation there really is because a glass to bumper or even better a bumper to bumper rack would give you a wealth of space to spread it all around.

 

[LostWoods]

Honestly if you don't cross your GAWR numbers and are somewhat evenly distributing weight then you'll probably be fine. The reality is that with the weight you can add between payload and towing, the powertrain, brakes, and frame can clearly support yanking around a bunch of weight so the weak point has to be the axles or some sub-assembly thereof... as long as you aren't overloading them then I'd imagine you're "safe".

Though to be real, the more weight, the more wear. Going heavy is ill advised in any case.

 

[PyrPatriot]

No 2000 wouldn't be too much, I was referring to how quickly you stack on the pounds loading it up.

1000 in the bed is almost a point load since the bed is so small and most of it past the axle, squat city! Spreading it around is going to make a big difference. I've been wondering how much cab to tub articulation there really is because a glass to bumper or even better a bumper to bumper rack would give you a wealth of space to spread it all around.

I intend to have a half roof rack and bed rack. Had a whole system of items and weights ready, and was expecting 1000lbs of payload left. Let me see how that works out now lol

 

[PyrPatriot]

Ah fun times not knowing any better

I came to the same conclusion. That is why I got the Sport Max Tow: 1550lb payload meant 350lbs more weight capacity than the Rubicons on the lot. Decrease by 50lbs for the running boards (not rock crawling so no need for rock rails), still 300lbs more, and I can always add rear lockers for 30lbs, so 270lbs more than the Rubicon.

Mopar steel bumper and Smittybilt winch: 160lbs
Rear winch, hitch cradle, and connectors: 110lbs
270lbs for winches
I would thus still have 1200lbs for gear and occupants: the full payload of a Rubicon

Max Modular AL 14” rack: 42lbs
Front Runner RTT: 93lbs
Straps, ropes, d-rings, hooks, chains, air compressor: 50lbs

Say a 10 day trip for the wife and I, going up to 100mi into the wilderness
3 x 5gal gas tanks (150mi of off road miles, worst case scenario if we need to get back): 120
20gal water: 165
30lbs of food (steaks and potatoes get heavy)
100lbs for fridge, cooking stove, heating fule

600lbs there. We’re at half the Rubicon’s payload left and we’re almost done

That leaves 600lbs for the wife and I, guns, ammo, clothes, sleeping gear, radio, batteries, etc.

or screw the winches, if I am traveling on fairly good trails, a come-along and ground anchor should be just fine. Put that 270lbs of bumber cradle and winches towards a Fab Four rack and extension and be able to carry more stuff easily, I hate obstructing the rear view mirror at all, and that would allow me to store everything below the bed line and on the rack/roof.

My arithmetic could be off.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Does the GVWR include the tires? I do not see how it could be. If the GVWR is 6250, and my maximum payload of gear and occupants is 1540lbs, the curb weight being 4730lbs-ish per Jeep, that puts me at GVWR of 6250. But if you include tires 1540+345+4730 makes a GVW of 6615. So I'm guessing wheels/tires don't count towards GVWR.


Mine are currently at 86lbs per tire (Falken M/Ts in 32" with steel OEM wheels - same weight as OEM Falkens on alloy wheels). That's 345lbs less (with weights and such). So 5655 should be my current GVW, ditching the rubber bed mat and gravel bags means I have 865lbs of payload left with gear and family in the truck! A whole lot better than thinking I only had 250lbs payload left when I weighed us.

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Everything from the pavement up contributes to gross vehicle weight. Everything below the suspension is considered dead load and everything above is live load. Idealy you want to get you dead or unsprung load as low as possible for all the right reasons, see the previous evisceration of d60s and 40s.

Using your example, the wheels and tires are contained in the curb weight which is the wet weight as delivered from the factory with a full tank of fuel and the paper manual in the glovebox, no humans or dried up frenchfries or dog hair included. As you know GVWR - curb weight = allowable payload.

Adding to this the front and rear axles have their own specific weight ratings which may act as a fuse in your planning. You may find that you need to move things around more than you planned.

Any mass placed directly above or forward of the front axle will increase the front axle weight load, same goes for the rear axle. Mass placed exactly between the two will affect both and by percentage as it moves fore or aft.

To really build a well balanced machine that is pushing the weight limits you need to throw a set of 4 corner scales under it to know what you real true weights are and see the real world results of additions is.

 

[PyrPatriot]

see the previous evisceration of d60s and 40s.

Where is that?

 

[PyrPatriot]

Adding to this the front and rear axles have their own specific weight ratings which may act as a fuse in your planning. You may find that you need to move things around more than you planned.

3100lbs for front axle and 3750lbs for rear axle rating. The biggest issue is that without weight in the back the truck fishtails like crazy in wet conditions.

Some payload weight cannot be removed. Added items such as rock rails (100lbs), front bumper and skid plate (125lbs), winch and plate (125lbs; can shave 30lbs by upgrading to synthetic this weekend)

Some weight I can get rid of but dont want to: jumper cables, recovery strap, small socket set, deep sockets for my JT, torx bit set, breaker bar, 2 torque wrenches (5-20 and 20-150lbs), D-ring shackles, snatch block, chalks, bottle jack. Assortment of things like lights (large, handheld, small stand, and headlamp) and such that maybe total 25lbs. Oh and air compressor and fire extinguisher is probably 40-50lbs

I probably have 25lbs off family related items - baby seat being the heaviest.

I have had to use the tools while helping a Jeeper out on the road. I love having everything I need to the trail. Hence the sockets and wrenches. The factory jack isnt stable on an incline so hence the bottle jack and chalks. I am just so surprised at having 6000lbs on the scale.

I will have to see if anyone in town has a 4 corner scale

 

[ACAD_Cowboy]

Where is that?

Decorum forbids me to pick that scab however if you were to search around you would find a huge discussion of payloads, towing, lift heights etc.

The major thrust that pertains to us is how the wheels and tires act as gyroscopes, this a big heavy axle and big heavy wheel and tires can lead to major handling and performance downsides.

 

[PyrPatriot]

Decorum forbids me to pick that scab however if you were to search around you would find a huge discussion of payloads, towing, lift heights etc.

The major thrust that pertains to us is how the wheels and tires act as gyroscopes, this a big heavy axle and big heavy wheel and tires can lead to major handling and performance downsides.

on this forum? I made a thread on the maximum payload/towing and it got pretty long. Dont recall Dana 60 axles being Discussed

or do you mean my thread on upgrading axles to increase paylod?

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