Survey- For those with misfire issues

[Bama_Swampfox]

Should still be able to watch, for example, #6 pattern for differences. The ignition cycle is still going to happen at the exact same rate - 1 spark for every 2 revolutions of the crank and idle speed is pretty much the same as anything from the 60s or 70s so you can watch the spark pattern. The kicker is that there's no "central coil" to collect the signal from like the old days so you can really only check one at a time. You'd have to treat it as a single cylinder engine, one at a time.
I should hook my little scope up to my JT and see if I can figure things out. No misfire, but see if I can pull the signal very easily. Heck, I even scope alternator patterns to help diagnose issues there, too.
(well, until the power supply fried, I'm working on fixing that now along with a bazillion other things)

Good luck! Tell us all what you find out. It ain’t easy and I applaud your determination.

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[ShadowsPapa]

The old tools will still work you just need to be aware of the additional controls in the background. I completely believe people may be having mechanical issues, but to boot I have seen some substandard calibrations for timing and airflow. My guess is they leveraged or outsourced this development and now it was a biting them in the ass. Never pays to phone it in, for the product anyways

I have seen some misfire in the 3.6 caused by the "lifters"........... I'd have to go back and review what I have read.
Yes, you can still use the old tools. I got my first shop job after college when I walked in to chat with the service manager who was having a bad day with a Ford - he'd spent over an hour trying to diagnose - yeah, a misfire. He had a scope on it but was really flustered. We chatted, he said "I'll tell you what, check out this engine and tell me what's going on and we'll go from there".
I looked over the pattern, changed views a couple of times, then made a suggestion based on what I saw and heard and what he'd done.
His next words "you can start next Monday".
And sometimes a person should go back to basic troubleshooting and toss the fancy computer BS. Today, so few can troubleshoot anything. They rely on code readers and charts.

 

[Bama_Swampfox]

I’d be thrilled to see how you can see a failure of a single lifter through a scope pattern. You’re a lot better than I ever was. I am always willing to learn.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I’d be thrilled to see how you can see a failure of a single lifter through a scope pattern. You’re a lot better than I ever was. I am always willing to learn.

More for ignition and fuel diagnoses.
The lifter issue is going to be different.
BUT - years ago we could gather indications of mixture issues from the pattern and when you saw that one one cylinder of a carbureted engine, you knew it wasn't the fuel system - not the carburetor as any issue there would impact all cylinders - or half at least.
The spark patterns should all be even in length and height, the start and stop of the spark should be even among all cylinders. Even how it starts and ends is telling.
You rule things out. If the scope pattern shows perfect ignition cycles and doesn't indicate a mix too lean (I wonder about that.......) then you go mechanical.
Too bad these are not so simple to remove covers to get to the valve system.

Is there any sound like popping from those with a misfire - or does it simply drop that cylinder without any fanfare? Just a mis and no other sounds?

 

[Bama_Swampfox]

More for ignition and fuel diagnoses.
The lifter issue is going to be different.
BUT - years ago we could gather indications of mixture issues from the pattern and when you saw that one one cylinder of a carbureted engine, you knew it wasn't the fuel system - not the carburetor as any issue there would impact all cylinders - or half at least.
The spark patterns should all be even in length and height, the start and stop of the spark should be even among all cylinders. Even how it starts and ends is telling.
You rule things out. If the scope pattern shows perfect ignition cycles and doesn't indicate a mix too lean (I wonder about that.......) then you go mechanical.
Too bad these are not so simple to remove covers to get to the valve system.

Is there any sound like popping from those with a misfire - or does it simply drop that cylinder without any fanfare? Just a mis and no other sounds?

For the CEL, it’s so rare and intermittent in my case, it’s hard to say there’s anything consistent or obvious. In the old days I’d say it was ignition related - a distributor cap, rotor and/or bad plug or plug wire. But again, the misfire is so rare I doubt it‘a something obvious.

You might be able to see it on a scope but in my case, the misfire only happens while the vehicle is in motion. There’s is no audible indication that I’ve heard. It’s more like a single misfire or what I’d call a “stumble”. You can feel it but that’s about it.

The ESS fault is another story. There is no misfire that I have felt or heard when the A! light is set. The only thing consistent for me is: the engine is at idle (or just above), the vehicle is rolling, and less than 30 seconds after starting up cold or warm.

Neither the CEL or A! lights have occurred for me with the vehicle stationary and running.

 

[Timdog]

Do you hear that "pinging" from inside the cabin, or only when you pop the hood? And can you describe the sound a little more?

I can hear it while I’m driving more noticeable at low speeds it kind of sounds like a rattle coming from the front end.. I use to have a straight 6 in my yj & the timing was way off & it was making the same noise

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I can hear it while I’m driving more noticeable at low speeds it kind of sounds like a rattle coming from the front end.. I use to have a straight 6 in my yj & the timing was way off & it was making the same noise

These things (and the 4.0 of decades ago) are supposed to detect those things and adjust accordingly. The I6s had a "knock sensor" in the block - or head - and when there was a knock (audible or inaudible) it adjusted accordingly.
You could check the sensor and reaction by putting a timing light on it and hitting the block with a small to medium ball peen hammer and watch the timing retard.
The fact these "ping" at all is interesting.

 

[speedracer0481]

Also,
If anyone knows how to create a spreadsheet embedded into this thread or is computer savvy enough to do that, PM me and we can add it here to try to keep all those with this issue together.

Do you think we’d get more hits if we called it a check engine / p0300 registry Instead of survey? Could the thread’s name be changed?

 

[Syoung]

My Gladiator has been in the shop almost the entire time I have owned it. The dealer does a test and waits for FCA to tell then what to do next. This takes forever or the dealer is not telling the truth.
Last week FCA offered to make a payment for me. I feel like this is a trap to prevent lemon law. This is just how I feel not sure if it is me being paranoid or just me having a hard time trusting FCA. I advised that I would need to discuss with my lawyer first.
Dealer called a couple of minutes later and advised that FCA wants them to removes my heads do compression test then get back to them with results.
I told them that I was not OK with them opening up my engine and would request the buyback. Based on Virginia lemon law I meet criteria with way over 30 days in the shop and this is the 3rd attempt to repair.
My case worker responded that she would have to transfer my case to another department because she only handles repairs not buybacks. That was last Thursday and I still have not heard back from a new case manager.
Do you guys think I'm correct in not wanting a brand new and expensive Jeep with an engine that has been worked on. I keep thinking about what the service records will look like if I try to resell this vehicle. I would run for the hills if i asked for service records and it had all of these issues listed.

Venting and asking for some input. This group is the only place I can get real answers.
Thanks

 

[speedracer0481]

My Gladiator has been in the shop almost the entire time I have owned it. The dealer does a test and waits for FCA to tell then what to do next. This takes forever or the dealer is not telling the truth.
Last week FCA offered to make a payment for me. I feel like this is a trap to prevent lemon law. This is just how I feel not sure if it is me being paranoid or just me having a hard time trusting FCA. I advised that I would need to discuss with my lawyer first.
Dealer called a couple of minutes later and advised that FCA wants them to removes my heads do compression test then get back to them with results.
I told them that I was not OK with them opening up my engine and would request the buyback. Based on Virginia lemon law I meet criteria with way over 30 days in the shop and this is the 3rd attempt to repair.
My case worker responded that she would have to transfer my case to another department because she only handles repairs not buybacks. That was last Thursday and I still have not heard back from a new case manager.
Do you guys think I'm correct in not wanting a brand new and expensive Jeep with an engine that has been worked on. I keep thinking about what the service records will look like if I try to resell this vehicle. I would run for the hills if i asked for service records and it had all of these issues listed.

Venting and asking for some input. This group is the only place I can get real answers.
Thanks

How would one ever gain access to your service records unless you provide them?

 

[Flea1987]

How would one ever gain access to your service records unless you provide them?

Service records show up in a carfax

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Service records show up in a carfax

That's odd - none of my Silverado records did. All that is said was that it wasn't in a flood and there was no major accident on record.
And of course, I can do many of my own repairs so carfax would never know if I replaced body panels and did a repaint after an accident.

 

[Syoung]

How would one ever gain access to your service records unless you provide them?

The dealer can provide all service records if you ask. I just car shopped for my daughter and every used car I looked at had service records. All I had to do was ask.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The dealer can provide all service records if you ask. I just car shopped for my daughter and every used car I looked at had service records. All I had to do was ask.

I checked my JT service records using the MOPAR app or whatever it was - what a JOKE! IT was all WRONG. They never mentioned that the bed cover was replaced, the windshield replaced or that it was serviced. Just that it had been in and looked at. Nothing. For the bed cover bit there were two visits listed and nothing at all about any parts replacement, or even what it was in for - just that it was in and looked at.
The last visit was oil change and tire rotation, you'd have trouble telling from the online records.
Service records are a joke.

 

[Gijohn96]

I swapped out my loaner for a ram 1500 today. Dealer is convinced they have fixed the problem but I am skeptical.
Buyback manager has emailed me twice but still no actual phone call.
The dealership washed the thing and installed my slush mats so I think they are aware how pissed off I am about this whole thing. Tomorrow will be day 11 of them having the truck and day 25 of ownership. This shit ain't right.

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