230k+ Mile JT having misfire Issues after rocker repair

[Guardian682]

So I’m at my wits end with this issue so I figured I would throw it out into the murky realm that is the internet.



I have a 2020 JT that I bought brand new back in April of 2020 and it is sitting right at 233k miles, it has never been in the shop and has preformed flawlessly its whole life.



Two weeks ago I started it up and heard the notorious 3.6L tick on the passenger side. I immediately got with Benny at All Mopar Parts and ordered the intake camshaft kit, a new exhaust camshaft, rockers for the exhaust side and all the lifters needed to replace all of them.



I completed the work on the passenger side, and I must say both camshafts looked amazing and if I hadn’t already bought the new ones, I probably would’ve just kept them in there. Now, after completing the work, I started the truck up and it sounded perfect again, I even put about 800 miles on It and it still sounded fine, but it was nagging at me that if one lifter failed on the passenger side, I should probably proactively do the driver side.



So once again, I got with Benny, but this time I decided against buying the kit and just bought all the lifters and rockers I would need and then the new valve train gasket. I cracked open the driver side and found the camshafts looking perfect, so I proceeded to install new rockers, new lifters, and buttoned everything back up. I went to start it and immediately started getting misfire codes on cylinders 2,4, and 6, so I proceeded to turn it off and immediately tore it back apart down to the valve train. I compared my timing marks on the cam phasers to my top dead center gauge and they matched so I was not out of time, I even decided to crack open the passenger side valve train cover again and compare the timing marks on those and they were both matching up to the drivers side so I’m 100% confident that I am not out of time, so at this point, I’m not quite sure where to proceed. A part of me thinks maybe I should buy new camshafts just so I have new rockers sitting on top of new camshafts, but I don’t know if that would really make a difference.


Really just wondering if anyone else has any ideas so I can troubleshoot this over the weekend.

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[NC_Overland]

Damn man. I’m no help, but you’ve been doing some driving. 40k/yr depending on when you bought it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wasn't there a TSB about requiring something on a 2020 that received new followers, etc?

I wish I could recall, bet I have it somewhere. Seems there was some update required for that year with cam replacements.

I also will never replace lifter without cam on classic V8 and won't replace followers without the cam as they do wear in together. Roller types not a big deal, but the rubbing parts to wear together

 

[justbig]

I had a similar issue after rocker/lifter replacement. Apparently I got to close to an exhaust cam with a magnet when pulling a lifter out. It messed up the reluctor on the end of the cam. Had to use magnetic field viewing film to find it. There is magnetic ticks or pickups on the reluctor. The cam timing sensors use them for the vvt. The film showed one of the tick marks to be a starburst rather than a line. This revelation came after 20+ hours of troubleshooting. Guess my “YouTube Mechanic “ certification is lacking!

 

[Stan H]

Wasn't there a TSB about requiring something on a 2020 that received new followers, etc?

I wish I could recall, bet I have it somewhere. Seems there was some update required for that year with cam replacements.

I also will never replace lifter without cam on classic V8 and won't replace followers without the cam as they do wear in together. Roller types not a big deal, but the rubbing parts to wear together

Wasn't the 2020 that had the old followers . And the 2021 received the updated versions.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Wasn't the 2020 that had the old followers . And the 2021 received the updated versions.

Don't know what would have been updated................ Benny could tell you part numbers over the years.
I just recall a TSM about some sort of thing besides just swapping parts in the early JT years.

 

[Stan H]

Don't know what would have been updated................ Benny could tell you part numbers over the years.
I just recall a TSM about some sort of thing besides just swapping parts in the early JT years.

Hey @AllMoparParts.com , Hey Benny know the answer to this ??

 

[AllMoparParts.com]

Hi,
we dont have access to engineering data to see exactly what may have changed. There is a tech tip applied to both the intake and exhaust lifters as follows:


Tech Tip Part Description: ADJUSTER Valve Lash

Tech Tip Description: Customer`s complaint may include a ticking noise coming from the engine. Technician`s observations can refer to spongy or stuck hydraulic lash adjusters. Exhaust lash adjusters found with a "spongy" condition (compressible plunger) leading to the assumption of being defective/malfunctioning. EXHAUST lash adjusters are designed to be COMPRESSIBLE by hand. Intake lash adjusters found with a stiff or stuck condition (non-compressible plunger) leading to the assumption of being defective/malfunctioning. INTAKE lash adjusters are designed to be NON COMPRESSIBLE by hand. Do Not Replace EXHAUST lash adjusters when the following condition is present: should be compressible, but they will exert a reactionary spring force during compression and return to full expansion without a compression force. Do Not Replace INTAKE lash adjusters when the following condition is present: should feel very firm and difficult to compress. Once the correct functioning of the intake and exhaust lash adjusters is validated with the procedure above, refer to the Service Manual "HYDRAULIC LIFTER(S) NOISE DIAGNOSIS" procedure. After the corresponding service procedures from the Service Manual involving the Lash Adjusters have been conducted, refer to the detailed instructions in the Service Manual to diagnose and/or service any other component.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Hey @AllMoparParts.com , Hey Benny know the answer to this ??

I’m not Benny…, but “the update” was discussed sometime around when I got my second engine and the service manager stated I would be getting the “updated” one. He didn’t elaborate but the discussion was around whether or not I’d have to endure the whole “misfire” thing again. I ended up having one at 60k kms but was only a bad #5 spark plug.

Looking further into it, back then, we did discuss it amongst several others here, I did provide some information stating the “upgrade” was simply going from 6 quarts to 5 quarts of oil and we all remember the issues of bringing in our trucks for oil service to find those that had the upgraded 3.6 were over filled to 6 quarts and being all pissed off it wasn’t 5 quarts. The techs just didn’t get the memo

I even had to show my service manager, that was involved in my second engine, the work order, where the tech ordered 6 quarts for my “upgraded” engine when it only calls for 5 … and then we all remember it already came with 6 in it and then he dumped in 6 more, thinking it came empty like it should have, which then I had to deal with having 12 litres in the crankcase for my first 1500 kms.

I found the info on this “upgrade” from the member that posted ‘torque values in one place’ and it included a full list of updates and TSB’s.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

The info I found about the “upgrade” engine is here.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Gladiator/2021/tsbs/

I’d do a deep dive but I’m heading out on a “date” and I can’t be reading through this if I want it to end well.

 

[Maximus Gladius]

Look up the PDF here in that list. This mentions the upgraded engine. (I told my date she had to wait! This was important!!

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Look up the PDF here in that list. This mentions the upgraded engine. (I told my date she had to wait! This was important!!

And this is related to a misfire................how?

I was referring to a swap of cam and followers. There was something needed done after doing that, not about oil levels or capacities.

 

[Stan H]

The info I found about the “upgrade” engine is here.
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Gladiator/2021/tsbs/

I’d do a deep dive but I’m heading out on a “date” and I can’t be reading through this if I want it to end well.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10187706-9999.pdf

 

[ShadowsPapa]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10187706-9999.pdf

I know all too well about that one. It applied to our 2021 Grand Cherokee.
I have that one, and even the logs from my diagnosis of the issue

i presented my logs to the dealer, they couldn't force a misfire after several tries but finally it did and they dug and found that TSB

This is a small part of the log from that Jeep

2021/01/04 11:56:32.011: Faults found: P0303
2021/01/04 11:56:35.970: Faults found: P0303
Error code: P0303
Cylinder 3 ignition failures
Test not complete
Error intermittent
Error warning lamp not requested
CARB Freeze Frame:
___________________
Fault code: P0303
PCM Mileage since MIL On: 0.00 miles
PCM Odometer: 950.27 miles
Open Loop - Bank 1: No
Closed Loop - Bank 1: Yes
Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 1: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 1: No
Closed Loop with DTC - Bank 1: No
Open Loop - Bank 2: No
Closed Loop - Bank 2: No
Open Loop due to Driving Conditions - Bank 2: No
Open Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Closed Loop with DTC - Bank 2: No
Engine load: 30.20 %
Freeze Frame Engine Coolant Temp: 66.00 Deg.C
Intake Air Temperature: 215.00 Deg.C
Ambient Air Temperature: 12.00 Deg.C
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: 12.49 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1: -3.13 %
Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: 9.37 %
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2: -7.04 %
MAP Voltage: 1.96 V
MAP: 46 kPa
Atmospheric pressure: 97 kPa
Engine RPM: 875.00 rpm
Vehicle speed: 0 MPH
Throttle Position Sensor 1 Percent: 12.94 %
Battery voltage: 14.58 V
Fuel level: 95.69 %

 

[Hootbro]

Wasn't there a TSB about requiring something on a 2020 that received new followers, etc?

I wish I could recall, bet I have it somewhere. Seems there was some update required for that year with cam replacements.

I also will never replace lifter without cam on classic V8 and won't replace followers without the cam as they do wear in together. Roller types not a big deal, but the rubbing parts to wear together

There was the attached TSB for 2020 for those with a random misfire P0300 code and few other codes. All it had them do was just change the right intake cam and nothing else.

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