Is Lift and Larger Tires Necessary for Overlanding

[smlobx]

Is it necessary to lift the JT and put larger tires on it to do overlanding ? Being down in South Texas I don't think there is a ton of overlanding areas unless you go down too the big bend area, etc possibly. I haven't done any but once I get the truck it might be something I would like to try occasionally. Its primary goal will be a daily driver and hauling my kayaks and camping gear around to various locations (Mostly pavement driving other than some areas where its beach/sand and 4 wheel drive is required. But the overlanding thing looks interesting. Not really rock crawling more just some offroad trail, etc that might lead to some very nice camping areas. I suppose there are varying levels of roughness. I was just wondering if lifting, etc would be required. I do plan to run 33's on the truck to keep the gas mileage decent.

The first two responses pretty much nailed it. “Overlanding” has become too much about the gear and unfortunately less about the go.

The best and most common truck in the world used for true hard core overlanding (not rock crawling) is the Toyota 79 Series Land Cruiser or perhaps the 70 Series Troop Carrier. Unfortunately, we cannot get those vehicles here due to emissions and safety requirements. These trucks can carry an immense amount of gear over some of the most remote parts of this planet .

If you look up the specs here:
https://www.toyota.co.za/ranges/land-cruiser-79

You’ll see that it comes with smaller tires than the Rubicon ( 265/70R16) and has less ground clearance (9.25”) as well. The Diesel engines in these truck are legendary for their reliability but other than that they are a very plain truck and not nearly as nice as the Gladiator.

In your initial post you mentioned that your truck will be your DD and the truth of the matter is that even in a dedicated overlanding truck you will spend a great deal of time driving on roads of one condition or another so not venturing far from what the Jeep engineers designed is a smart move in my opinion.

Welcome to the club!

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[Klutch]

“Overlanding” has become too much about the gear and unfortunately less about the go.

This! You know, I have a classic Mustang (1970 Mach 1) and I see the same thing in that community. I'm a member of a vintage Mustang forum and quite often new people will join and ask how they can add coil over suspension up front, multi-link suspension with disc brakes at the rear and 600+ horsepower engine under the hood. From reading magazines and watching TV shows, they get the impression anything less is useless.

Then us old geezers politely explain how a few well-planned mods can dramatically improve performance for the street and point out there's not much difference between a 66 Mustang Coupe with a 289 2-barrel and a 66 Shelby GT-350; and people actually took the Shelby racing. (A guy in my Mustang club was dumbfounded when my lightly-modded 1970 Mustang kept right up with his 2017 "Bullitt Edition" Mustang on a twisty mountain road.)

Seems like it's very similar with off-roading. If you like the "monster truck" mods, cool. But it's also cool to just do what you need to get wherever you're going and nothing more.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

This! You know, I have a classic Mustang (1970 Mach 1) and I see the same thing in that community. I'm a member of a vintage Mustang forum and quite often new people will join and ask how they can add coil over suspension up front, multi-link suspension with disc brakes at the rear and 600+ horsepower engine under the hood. From reading magazines and watching TV shows, they get the impression anything less is useless.

Then us old geezers politely explain how a few well-planned mods can dramatically improve performance for the street and point out there's not much difference between a 66 Mustang Coupe with a 289 2-barrel and a 66 Shelby GT-350; and people actually took the Shelby racing. (A guy in my Mustang club was dumbfounded when my lightly-modded 1970 Mustang kept right up with his 2017 "Bullitt Edition" Mustang on a twisty mountain road.)

Seems like it's very similar with off-roading. If you like the "monster truck" mods, cool. But it's also cool to just do what you need to get wherever you're going and nothing more.

Wow, sounds exactly like my world - "mega-modding suspension" is one guy's thread on our forum. "super-heavy-duty electric fans" and I wonder - WHY, when I have FACTORY cooling in an AC car and it runs COOL (sometimes too cool)
Then the guy who wants to put headers and 2 1/2" exhaust on a 232? Really? Why? (finally got him convinced he'd LOSE torque with his ideas)
I used to AUTO-CROSS with my first Javelin and now suddenly for street driving you need to replace the entire suspension system and that steering isn't good enough, you have to have rack and pinion?
I'd have taken my 70 I just sold against some of those who are modifying for "better performance" any day - to see if they could keep up.

 

[BAT]

The first two responses pretty much nailed it. “Overlanding” has become too much about the gear and unfortunately less about the go.

The best and most common truck in the world used for true hard core overlanding (not rock crawling) is the Toyota 79 Series Land Cruiser or perhaps the 70 Series Troop Carrier. Unfortunately, we cannot get those vehicles here due to emissions and safety requirements. These trucks can carry an immense amount of gear over some of the most remote parts of this planet .

If you look up the specs here:
https://www.toyota.co.za/ranges/land-cruiser-79

You’ll see that it comes with smaller tires than the Rubicon ( 265/70R16) and has less ground clearance (9.25”) as well. The Diesel engines in these truck are legendary for their reliability but other than that they are a very plain truck and not nearly as nice as the Gladiator.

In your initial post you mentioned that your truck will be your DD and the truth of the matter is that even in a dedicated overlanding truck you will spend a great deal of time driving on roads of one condition or another so not venturing far from what the Jeep engineers designed is a smart move in my opinion.

Welcome to the club!

Thanks that is what I like to hear just go cause I have a lot of camping gear, etc already and just looking for a vehicle that I can use to get me to some more remote places than normal but still be used for other purposes.

 

[BruteForce]

In my opinion the vast majority of “overlanding” trips/trails can be done with a stock jeep.

Not here in Utah, AZ or Nevada. You'll need a lift or lose your undercarriage.,, at least if you're leaving the nice groomed dirt fire break roads.

Can you do Hells Revenge in Moab without a lift: YES. Can you do portions of the San Rafael Swell without a lift: Yes. Can you do all of each without: HELL NO!

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

In my opinion the vast majority of “overlanding” trips/trails can be done with a stock SUBARU.

Fixed it for you lol. The truth is, most overlanding that I see done by most can be (and is) done with stock everything, including old VW camper vans, subarus, BMW z3 (you read that right) etc. Most things done to a rig for "overlanding purposes" SHOULD be done for....

1) reliability...to prevent mechanical breakdowns and ruin your day
2) Comfort....sure, you CAN overland in a convertible mini cooper, but how comfy will you be
3) Self reliance...can you not require services of any kind for extended periods (food, gas, water, etc)
4) Access to locations....this is one where people go over the top....in the US anyway. The only reason to add anything to a stock jeep for this category, is to access a certain location. If you want to camp at rubicon springs, you CANNOT do it in a camper van, or a mini clubman. You will need a capable 4x4 vehicle, that can reach rubicon springs without breaking rule #1.....no point of making it there with your vehicle in pieces.

As someone that has taken many 2000+ mile overlanding trips in the US, my advice is, concentrate on the first 3, and when you get experience going to location after location, you will see where your jeep is lacking, and THEN you address #4 on the list....build to help you, and not more...otherwise, you end up with a fat overarmored pig that makes your life miserable.

 

[G8R]

Not here in Utah, AZ or Nevada. You'll need a lift or lose your undercarriage.,, at least if you're leaving the nice groomed dirt fire break roads.

Can you do Hells Revenge in Moab without a lift: YES. Can you do portions of the San Rafael Swell without a lift: Yes. Can you do all of each without: HELL NO!

While I have zero off road experience in Arizona I do have 40 years worth exploring all over Utah, Wyoming, Nevada, and Colorado. I do not personally consider Moab as an overlanding experience, unless using mountain bikes. Many trails around Moab require mods certainly. But the majority of roads throughout most of the mountain ranges and deserts in these states can certainly be traveled with most any Jeep. And The San Rafael Swell can be traveled through quite successfully without mods as I have spent many many weeks there over the decades exploring and establishing rock climbs. There are some serious roads in The Swell, of course, and I would not consider driving some of them without mods. But none of these trails ever interfered with my ability to get out there and explore deep into the canyons and Wingate cliffs. Yes, I did have to hike further, but that was part of my overlanding experience. And, many of those trips into The Swell were actually done in a Subaru (and CJ5 and PowerWagon and most recently in my Stock JTR)

 

[BruteForce]

@G8R, your definition of overlanding is obviously different than mine. My example would be to go mostly offroad Salt Lake City to Las Vegas, which I did in October. A Subaru would have never survived about 40% of that route.

Late December, a group of us circumnavigated nearly 100% of the Great Salt Lake. Again, without a lift and you would have been stuck in the snow.

At the end of the day, to each their own and whatever works for one doesn't necessarily work for everyone..

 

[BAT]

Thanks for all the info. Can't see me diving into any heavy overlanding anytime soon but it does look like something I will definitely give a try. Most of the stuff I see around me like Sam Houston Forest are rated as easy on the off road trail map site I saw. Most of my overlanding trips for the foreseable future will be me driving to a launch point and then the rest of the trip will be paddling over water to camp sites, fishing for 3-4 days and then returning to the launch site.

 

[uplandgunner]

The first two responses pretty much nailed it. “Overlanding” has become too much about the gear and unfortunately less about the go.

The best and most common truck in the world used for true hard core overlanding (not rock crawling) is the Toyota 79 Series Land Cruiser or perhaps the 70 Series Troop Carrier. Unfortunately, we cannot get those vehicles here due to emissions and safety requirements. These trucks can carry an immense amount of gear over some of the most remote parts of this planet .

If you look up the specs here:
https://www.toyota.co.za/ranges/land-cruiser-79

You’ll see that it comes with smaller tires than the Rubicon ( 265/70R16) and has less ground clearance (9.25”) as well. The Diesel engines in these truck are legendary for their reliability but other than that they are a very plain truck and not nearly as nice as the Gladiator.

In your initial post you mentioned that your truck will be your DD and the truth of the matter is that even in a dedicated overlanding truck you will spend a great deal of time driving on roads of one condition or another so not venturing far from what the Jeep engineers designed is a smart move in my opinion.

Welcome to the club!

When I was in Namibia last year this what our PH had . wonderful truck but alas as you said not available here.

 

[G8R]

@G8R, your definition of overlanding is obviously different than mine. My example would be to go mostly offroad Salt Lake City to Las Vegas, which I did in October. A Subaru would have never survived about 40% of that route.

Late December, a group of us circumnavigated nearly 100% of the Great Salt Lake. Again, without a lift and you would have been stuck in the snow.

At the end of the day, to each their own and whatever works for one doesn't necessarily work for everyone..

I am not sure our definitions are all that different actually. I was responding more from the perspective of what the OP indicated his needs were (no rock crawling). As for myself I roughly estimate that I can typically explore something like 60% all dirt roads in the 4Corners Area without engaging 4x4 but having high clearance, like a stock Jeep. Then another 10% with 4x4. Another 10% with 4Low. Another 5% with Lockers. And the last 15% would need mods I do not have. I can travel to a lifetime plus worth of locations with a stock Rubicon and the majority of that is in 2wd. I think it comes down to what our purpose is in overlanding? Are we there to explore every nook and cranny and do it all in our primary vehicle? If so, then I think modifications are helpful. Are we there to push the limits and hit the hardest trails? Then Mods are Mandatory. If we are there to access areas in general and then explore deeper on foot or boat or ATV then no I do not think that mods are necessary. I am mostly in that last category. But Rock crawling is FUN....

As for the circum nav of the Great Salt Lake. I have spent a fair bit of time in the New Foundland Mtns. I can drive most all the way around the lake and into the various small ranges in just 2wd. But no way if it is wet or with snow. I explore almost exclusively solo and I would not tempt that route in wet conditions. In the summer and fall, I have been out there a bunch. So again, a person can certainly go explore and camp in that area without 4x4 or mods. But to do it in full conditions? No way, as you state.

Snow and mud is another story. I find that in old firm snow nothing really works well. Higher clearance is better. So a lift and bigger tires are helpful. But I have found that 4 mud chains go way further than lifts and big tires. In mud, wider tires giving some floatation are generally better. But again, chains make a bigger difference.

Having just come off of 10 years in a PowerWagon using 35" tires and a leveling kit I feel that the added benefit of those 1" higher clearance tires from stock made a difference very infrequently. Probably less than 1%. I still got stuck with either set of tires (although I never had to winch to get out so that might give an indication of the level of difficulty I typically went through). With my JTR I initially felt the break over and departure would be a severe limitation. What I have found is that it has not been that much of a problem. I have something over 50 hours in 4 Low to date and occasionally locked up and have most certainly scraped bottom and hitch (more than I can count). These never stopped me and I have been surprised at the capability with these limitations. I have bogged my JTR only in old firm snow and while chained up. But it was minimal as a 5 minute shovel effort easily freed the vehicle. This was just in the last couple weeks on an elk hunt in the Tusher's (North Beaver). There was a lot of old snow and this was a truck based hunt. This required chains and we pushed up every road we could find until the point of getting stuck. In every case I was making fresh tracks and went substantially farther than any other vehicle had to that point. I have no idea what kinds of vehicles and setups they were but side-by-sides and some full sized trucks judging by tracks.

While I indicate in this thread that lift and bigger tires are not "necessary", I will very likely add a 3" lift at some point in the next year. I most likely will not change tires as I feel the initial and on going cost of those larger tires over the course of the life of the vehicle is not really worth it. Especially when take offs are available (and I already have 100,000 miles worth of take offs sitting in my shed). Although I may obtain a set of 37" tires and wheels just for specific trips and leave the 33" on for daily and most trips.

 

[smlobx]

When I was in Namibia last year this what our PH had . wonderful truck but alas as you said not available here.

Maybe he was related to these guys we found in the "Forbidden Zone"..

 

[Bobzdar]

No, not necessary, even for the roughest stuff.

Look where these guys take a bunch of land rovers with 31" tires. A stock rubicon is more capable than any of the rigs they used here, and keep in mind this was a competition (and not their own vehicles) so they were not easy or slow moving through obstacles:

https://expeditionportal.com/camel-trophy-mundo-maya-1995/

 

[salvino]

While I have zero off road experience in Arizona I do have 40 years worth exploring all over Utah, Wyoming, Nevada, and Colorado. I do not personally consider Moab as an overlanding experience, unless using mountain bikes. Many trails around Moab require mods certainly. But the majority of roads throughout most of the mountain ranges and deserts in these states can certainly be traveled with most any Jeep. And The San Rafael Swell can be traveled through quite successfully without mods as I have spent many many weeks there over the decades exploring and establishing rock climbs. There are some serious roads in The Swell, of course, and I would not consider driving some of them without mods. But none of these trails ever interfered with my ability to get out there and explore deep into the canyons and Wingate cliffs. Yes, I did have to hike further, but that was part of my overlanding experience. And, many of those trips into The Swell were actually done in a Subaru (and CJ5 and PowerWagon and most recently in my Stock JTR)

Nice rig! I agree, there is a lot you can do w/o mods but there's a lot you shouldn't try without them, especially recovery gear.

 

[WhatExit?]

Well, that about covers this topic. Anything else is just horse beating which means this thread will go on and on and on...

Let's lighten this up Francis

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