I've become disillusioned with my Jeep

[HooliganActual]

Not all Jeeps have death wobble but some do, our three Jeeps we have had since 2010, have been about the best cars we have had, wife's 2010 JK , had a bent gas tank vent fixed a week after we got it, then went 96,000 mikes with nothing not even brakes. Last two jeeps are going fine, so you have decided to get rid of it instead of having someone check it, it didn't come from the factory with it something changed, sounds like you are done checking. Do what ya have to do.....Jack

I agree with you…I currently have a 2016 JKUR, 2018 JKUR and a 2020 JTR. I have had a CJ and some XJ’s and never had death wobble in the 40 years I’ve owned Jeeps. However, because I wheel my Jeeps I typically upgrade the ball joints and some of the steering linkage (because of the lifts and wanting the axle centered) which likely heads off early death wobble to an extent.

And I will complain with the best of them about the crappy factory ball joints. Every one of my Rubicons had crappy plastic ball joints. I’ve literally shattered the caps removing them.

I also agree that something might have changed. Maybe the OP doesn’t realize the change, knows something changed but assumes it isn’t related to the issue or flat out hasn’t been forthright. Who knows?!?! Hopefully he can get to the bottom of it and be happy with his Jeep again.

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[Chaos Theory]

...I suggest staying on top of your maintenance. ... no way to avoid it without a owner willing to do the proper steps to avoid it.

Agreed. I think it's also important to ensure your vehicle is getting aligned every time you mod wheels, lift, etc. Add at least adjustable LCAs and ensure your camber is checked. A lot of people just add lift, spacers or bigger wheels/tires without doing any of that. Sometimes they're lucky, sometimes they're not.

But even with proper maintenance, proper front end work, etc, some people still get DW. If I'm 'that guy' with a bad luck Jeep, it's gone. Trust is kind of important when you're 65mph in heavy traffic. Love the truck, but if I feel at any point it's trying to kill me, we're breaking up.

 

[Jeeperjamie]

Agreed. I think it's also important to ensure your vehicle is getting aligned every time you mod wheels, lift, etc. Add at least adjustable LCAs and ensure your camber is checked. A lot of people just add lift, spacers or bigger wheels/tires without doing any of that. Sometimes they're lucky, sometimes they're not.

But even with proper maintenance, proper front end work, etc, some people still get DW. If I'm 'that guy' with a bad luck Jeep, it's gone. Trust is kind of important when you're 65mph in heavy traffic. Love the truck, but if I feel at any point it's trying to kill me, we're breaking up.

Honestly I've never heard of someone who keeps a good routine check on theirs get death wobble but I suppose it could happen. That's just nature of the beast when you own a solid axle vehicle. My buddies XJ got it one time while we was on the interstate at about 70mph. At no point did I fell like we was going to die. I've been in at least 11 or 12 different jeeps in the past 25 years that it's happened, including 4 or 5 times in my own JKU i used to own. Most of the time if you slow down to around 40 it will stop and also more time than not it happens at slower speeds than highway speed.

 

[HooliganActual]

Honestly I've never heard of someone who keeps a good routine check on theirs get death wobble but I suppose it could happen.

Not that I disagree but looking at the Gladiator's Maintenance Schedule, there is no "Replace Ball Joints" mileage specified (at least that I saw). So it is entirely possible that the OP could be diligent about adhering to the recommended maintenance intervals, but it still relies on the technician that performs "inspect suspension components" to actually inspect them properly.

Now at the dealership I go to, the techs get a commission for every service they recommend that gets booked/performed; so the techs there want to replace your entire engine and chassis at every visit...LOL.

 

[Dim]

yeah it must be scary for sure . and super disappointing I totally agree .

on mine I followed several steps.

upgraded the steering stabilizer with a fox
changed the steering gear ( replacing the alu with the steel)
in addition i places a Steersmarts sector shaft brace
new trackbar front and rear

and yesterday I finally took my courage with my two hands and installed Metalcloack's drag link and tie rod + steering stabilizer relocation bracket

ok it still not as sharp as a Porsche 911 but wow this thing is solid and driving feeling is gooood

seriously when you see the price of new links its definitely worth it , less than 1000 buck and you get a super strong setup ( and suprisely super easy to install )

 

[obrianmcc]

First, are you really experiencing death wobble vs a mild sense of bump steer? I purchased my Sport S (Max tow, ie wider axles) from the dealer with Rubicon suspension (Springs and Shocks). I noticed that in that stock trim under abrupt G-outs the truck would unsettle a bit ... definitely not DW. I recently installed an Evo lift and the truck now handles night and day better. My wife's JL I have noticed has a similar handling characteristic as my JT had previously. What's different? .. The Evo suspension is notably stiffer than the Rubicon w/ Fox Shocks. IMO the rampant reports of DW are actually a legit handling anomaly of the stock suspension ... DW is a result of something either loose or worn out of spec.

 

[Mjolnir]

First, are you really experiencing death wobble vs a mild sense of bump steer? I purchased my Sport S (Max tow, ie wider axles) from the dealer with Rubicon suspension (Springs and Shocks). I noticed that in that stock trim under abrupt G-outs the truck would unsettle a bit ... definitely not DW. I recently installed an Evo lift and the truck now handles night and day better. My wife's JL I have noticed has a similar handling characteristic as my JT had previously. What's different? .. The Evo suspension is notably stiffer than the Rubicon w/ Fox Shocks. IMO the rampant reports of DW are actually a legit handling anomaly of the stock suspension ... DW is a result of something either loose or worn out of spec.

This. Majority of people here say DW when in reality it is bump steer.

I've been running for 50k miles, lifted and larger tires, with no Stabilizer. No DW and only slight shimmy on shitty roads. Why? Because I maintain my vehicle. Things come out of torque. Weights fall off tires. Premature wear on a bushing. Shit happens to ALL vehicles. Go and fix it. If you can't, find a shop that knows the vehicle that isn't a dealership.

 

[Murgatroid]

Not that I disagree but looking at the Gladiator's Maintenance Schedule, there is no "Replace Ball Joints" mileage specified (at least that I saw). So it is entirely possible that the OP could be diligent about adhering to the recommended maintenance intervals, but it still relies on the technician that performs "inspect suspension components" to actually inspect them properly.

Now at the dealership I go to, the techs get a commission for every service they recommend that gets booked/performed; so the techs there want to replace your entire engine and chassis at every visit...LOL.

Properly engineered ball joints do not wear out at 70,000 of street/highway driving. Stopped at Wheat's Off-road in Orleans Indiana, going to cost me over 2k to fix the wobble. He showed me the factory rods, the ends are crimped on, no welds, had a dumpster full of them. Beefing up the whole front end and leveling it. According to him, the local dealer is sending wobble problems to him to fix.

 

[obrianmcc]

Properly engineered ball joints do not wear out at 70,000 of street/highway driving. Stopped at Wheat's Off-road in Orleans Indiana, going to cost me over 2k to fix the wobble. He showed me the factory rods, the ends are crimped on, no welds, had a dumpster full of them. Beefing up the whole front end and leveling it. According to him, the local dealer is sending wobble problems to him to fix.

Yes they do ... current stock ball joints are well known to wear as low as 20k, especially if you have any modifications or do any sort of off-roading. If your at 70k that's the first place I'd look. Also, do a dry steer test to check your Drag Link and Tie Rod Ends. I had a drag link end show wear at 20k, and I suspect my ball joints are now bad at 42k. Lots of reading on just this if you decide to search. As for the "rods" not being welded? ... this might be a shop benefitting off the woes of stock handling. definitely not saying that swapping out to a reputable brands 1 ton steering would not be an upgrade .. it would. However the stock tie rods and drag links are fairly good ... it's the non-serviceable ends that will get you.

 

[Boeing720]

OK I see all this about proper maintenance, but my JT has 4000 miles on it, and I found out when it gets below 50 degrees outside, I get a shimmy at 70+ mph. It doesn't matter how far I drive it (I've gone six miles with the shimmy.), drop it below 60 and it goes away. It's not as extreme as DW, and I can't believe it's a bump steer that lasts that long. It's new, and totally stock from the dealer. Really annoying.
My previous JK had a much more severe wobble, but I found a worn out drag link which was OK. It had 200,000 miles on it.

 

[Murgatroid]

Yes they do ... current stock ball joints are well known to wear as low as 20k, especially if you have any modifications or do any sort of off-roading. If your at 70k that's the first place I'd look. Also, do a dry steer test to check your Drag Link and Tie Rod Ends. I had a drag link end show wear at 20k, and I suspect my ball joints are now bad at 42k. Lots of reading on just this if you decide to search. As for the "rods" not being welded? ... this might be a shop benefitting off the woes of stock handling. definitely not saying that swapping out to a reputable brands 1 ton steering would not be an upgrade .. it would. However the stock tie rods and drag links are fairly good ... it's the non-serviceable ends that will get you.

All 70k miles are road/highway, the stock is crap after the guy that is rebuilding my front end showed me his dumpster full of rods, Jeep is crimping the ends on, welding is too expensive. Tell me a crimp is going to hold when stress. All the ones in the dumpster had the ends pulled out about 1/4 of an inch.

 

[sharpsicle]

All 70k miles are road/highway, the stock is crap after the guy that is rebuilding my front end showed me his dumpster full of rods, Jeep is crimping the ends on, welding is too expensive. Tell me a crimp is going to hold when stress. All the ones in the dumpster had the ends pulled out about 1/4 of an inch.

You could always go apply for an engineering job with Jeep. I'm sure you'd learn a lot in the process, most notably how you aren't qualified to be one.

The worst thing you can do is look at mass production techniques with these kinds of blinders on. I mean really, you went into a dumpster at a specialty shop in order to do your statistical analysis on Jeeps? Clearly you'd see a lot of the same issue there, because that's why people go there. Doesn't mean the problem is systemic, it means the guy at the shop was giving you his sales pitch.

There's a reason aftermarket companies exist making new parts for every make of car. There's a reason avid Jeepers replace their components. What vehicles come with are a balance of economic sense and acceptable risk. They could change the way they make them, but it wouldn't make sense in terms of cost, and your Jeep would be even more expensive than it is now.

I'm sorry you're having issues, and I'm glad you're getting them addressed, but Jeep isn't the only manufacturer that does things like this in their process and they aren't structurally compromised as a result. The good news is you have the ability to repair or replace these components as you see fit, without replacements costing an arm and a leg like Land Rovers or G-Wagons (who, by the way, also use crimping or press-fit methods).

 

[obrianmcc]

All 70k miles are road/highway, the stock is crap after the guy that is rebuilding my front end showed me his dumpster full of rods, Jeep is crimping the ends on, welding is too expensive. Tell me a crimp is going to hold when stress. All the ones in the dumpster had the ends pulled out about 1/4 of an inch.

70k miles puts you right on the mark for ball joints, tie rods ends, and drag link ... (all hwy). If you were off-roading I would suggest that you would have been dealing with this already. Unless someone can prove that the stock components being pressed and crimped are causing these issues, I will remain suspect. The JL/JT steering is well upgraded over the JK's ... that's not to say that it's underweight for running anything larger than say 35's. Jeeps are designed to be off-road ... it behooves owners to familiarize themselves with the nuances, component expectation, and maintenance required. If overall maintenance free road manners top priority I suggest that individual buy an IFS Toyota.

 

[obrianmcc]

OK I see all this about proper maintenance, but my JT has 4000 miles on it, and I found out when it gets below 50 degrees outside, I get a shimmy at 70+ mph. It doesn't matter how far I drive it (I've gone six miles with the shimmy.), drop it below 60 and it goes away. It's not as extreme as DW, and I can't believe it's a bump steer that lasts that long. It's new, and totally stock from the dealer. Really annoying.
My previous JK had a much more severe wobble, but I found a worn out drag link which was OK. It had 200,000 miles on it.

I would first suspect tires in your case ... tires and suspension will react different with changes in temp and sometimes elevation.

 

[Murgatroid]

70k miles puts you right on the mark for ball joints, tie rods ends, and drag link ... (all hwy). If you were off-roading I would suggest that you would have been dealing with this already. Unless someone can prove that the stock components being pressed and crimped are causing these issues, I will remain suspect. The JL/JT steering is well upgraded over the JK's ... that's not to say that it's underweight for running anything larger than say 35's. Jeeps are designed to be off-road ... it behooves owners to familiarize themselves with the nuances, component expectation, and maintenance required. If overall maintenance free road manners top priority I suggest that individual buy an IFS Toyota.

Yeah, I'm seeing I'm paying a price for wanting to be able to take the top off my truck. My last Toyota had over 200,000 miles with only tires, battery, belts and brakes being about the only things needing replaced in that time period.

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