Jeep Gladiator Manual Transmission Conspiracy, and being smarter than the design team

[Naked Chef]

Hello all!!! id really like everyones input and correction on my views and theory on the whole manual transmission debacle. ive really got to get out of this rabbit hole.

i purchased my 2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon in November 2021. it had 6300 miles on it, i just insisted on a manual transmission, searched high and low. over the next 2 years i was constantly researching on the best lift, gearing, etc. to meet my needs until i ran into a company at Jeep Jam 2023, looking at their builds, i could tell that was who i wanted to help me finally pull the trigger and get my rig the way i wanted. great company! couldnt be more happier with my decision. $32,000 later, i creamed my panties. to date im $40,000 into, her taken her to Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Georgia Traverse, camping, mudding, beaching, etc. i just turned over 80,000 miles as of yesterday. during my journey, i started noticing the transmission issues. around 20,000 miles ago actually. just these weird random issues with shifting into gear, blah blah blah, the same issues everyone has had and had 2 shops tell me it was the synchros, 1 shop say it wasnt, and the dealership say it was because of the centerforce, and centerforce themselves saying i needed to bleed the system. the more aggravating it got the more i started looking into fixing the issue. yes, of course i set up the whole recall process through mopar shortly after purchasing the gladiator but they took so long to issue a fix i had the previous company mentioned install the centerforce for me during the initial build process. the more i researched the more i started to realize that mopar has been pulling the wool over our eyes and have been pulling some hush hush back door "bandaid on a bullet wound fix" before anyone figured it out. first let me disappoint everyone with saying the "manual transmission" isnt that at all. its just a simulation with a 3rd pedal. theres no actual interaction physically between the shifter and transmission itself, its just suspended by a plastic harness over the transmission, with electronic cables sending messages to the computer saying what gear to be in, in correlation to speed and rpm as long as the 3rd pedal is pressed. the recall was issued for the clutch due to over heating, so X amount of manual transmission wranglers and gladiators got the new clutch, along with and unmentioned "software update". when i learned of the "transmission software update", thats when things really started connecting. the software update was to change the computerized gears, which is likely what caused the overheating in the clutch prompting the recall. recently i had the transmission software update, and now im starting to get the "service transmission" message. which i did, and then after a day or two it popped up again. never had a limp mode, still ran as good as it should. so i broke down and had the dealership and had them flush the system and they tell me that it runs great, until 100 miles later....service transmission. so more research and trying to figure this whole deal out and im noticing that a bad clutch cable, bad shifter, bad linkage, and a bad transmission, bad gear position sensor all have the same symptoms. am i the only one that has realized all of the above mentioned? is it all just a big pro profit scam? so far, from the frame down, theres nothing stock, my next step is just lifting my body off and engine and transmission swapping to make the advertised jeep do what it was advertised to do. what has everyone else done? criticisms and corrections welcome and encouraged.

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[Mr._Bill]

What I did was choose Gladiators with automatic transmissions.

My opinion is the manual transmission they used was a very poor choice and picked primarily on cost. They have done what they can to make it work. If you keep the truck stock, and don't tow or carry a lot of weight, it seems to be okay.

 

[LouisvEarlleJT]

Jeep put a 6-speed manual for a small, 2-door wrangler in a vehicle the size and weight of what could have passed for a full-size truck before those all became massive. It’s no surprise that it can’t perform. It’s planned that way to sell less so that they can eventually phase it out all together.

Do you have any photos about the shifter being essentially fake though? Looking at one it appears to have a ball joint on the bottom that would slip into a receiver on the transmission very similar to many other manuals I’ve driven/owned:

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...Qwg8oAHoECAsQEg&nis=2&suid=32502035901&adurl=

 

[Naked Chef]

Jeep put a 6-speed manual for a small, 2-door wrangler in a vehicle the size and weight of what could have passed for a full-size truck before those all became massive. It’s no surprise that it can’t perform. It’s planned that way to sell less so that they can eventually phase it out all together.

Do you have any photos about the shifter being essentially fake though? Looking at one it appears to have a ball joint on the bottom that would slip into a receiver on the transmission very similar to many other manuals I’ve driven/owned:

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai...Qwg8oAHoECAsQEg&nis=2&suid=32502035901&adurl=

that is the shifter. the ball joint is housed in a plastic housing, then there is the end of the transmission cable that attaches below the ball joint, and to the right (passenger side) of the ball joint.

 

[Naked Chef]

What I did was choose Gladiators with automatic transmissions.

My opinion is the manual transmission they used was a very poor choice and picked primarily on cost. They have done what they can to make it work. If you keep the truck stock, and don't tow or carry a lot of weight, it seems to be okay.

when you say, picked on cost, do you mean that they chose the cheapest route no matter the trim level? my rubicon has the factory tow package, why wouldnt they put a sufficient manual transmission to support pulling a load than a transmission that they put in the base model?

 

[Mr._Bill]

when you say, picked on cost, do you mean that they chose the cheapest route no matter the trim level? my rubicon has the factory tow package, why wouldnt they put a sufficient manual transmission to support pulling a load than a transmission that they put in the base model?

They only have one manual transmission to offer. The factory Tow Package is just a cooling and electrical upgrade. The towing test, to claim high capacity, was done with models equipped with an automatic transmission.

 

[Naked Chef]

They only have one manual transmission to offer. The factory Tow Package is just a cooling and electrical upgrade. The towing test, to claim high capacity, was done with models equipped with an automatic transmission.

so youre saying the answer to my previous question is yes. the intentionally neglected the transmissions based on their financial gain?

 

[DanW]

99k on my JL with no issues. Got the new clutch as per the recall, but the original felt good as new. The new one feels great, too, but isn't broken-in yet.

Aisin has a very good reputation in the industry, so it isn't about just being cheap. If that were the case then you can say every single component in the vehicle is the cheapest they could get. Where they may have cheaped out was in the fixes they tried, and that's understandable. But it is also possible that they were not 100% sure what was causing the problem and were doing their best to find it. A friend who designed the Pentastar told me the team of engineers that worked on this were an outstanding and experienced group. But some problems are HARD to figure out. I personally believe they tried their best all along. Because that JL is the best Jeep I've ever had, and really, the best built, most trouble-free, and toughest vehicle I've owned in my life, of any kind. I think the Gladiator will be right there with it, with time. It's off to a GREAT start.

The problem, I believe, is two-fold. First, there were a number of them where the slave cylinders were not bled properly from the factory. Then, at the dealerships, in recall #1, some still were not bled properly. This caused slipping even when in gear. This generated a massive amount of heat. The pressure plate's metallurgy would not deal with that kind of heat. (The ones that broke apart were estimated to have reached as high as 1,400 degrees. YIKES!). Anyway, the pressure plates were then compromised and they fractured and came apart at speed, blowing out of the bell housing and in a very few cases, cutting hydraulic lines and causing fires.

I also believe some had issues because people (while will never, ever, ever admit it) did not use proper technique and in some cases were inadvertently starting out in 3rd gear frequently. (My ex wife did this one time and put out as much smoke as a Navy destroyer laying out a smoke screen).

I believe the newest recall involves a different friction material and a new pressure plate made of a different steel or alloy that won't fracture like the old one if exposed to extreme temps. I don't know this for sure, but I strongly believe it.

In recall #2, the gear indicator was meant to keep people from starting off in the wrong gear.

There is an ECM update in the newest recall, as well, and I have no clue what that did.

Anyway, my JL was fine before and after all 3 recalls, in spite of my ex wife's blunder. I have always run it hard and towed frequently with it and have had nothing go wrong. It's performed flawlessly, for me.

One thing made me very happy about the last recall. I got a free new clutch installed for free at about 100,000 miles. Yay.

I have complete confidence that I would have made it to 150,000 miles and maybe even close to 200k on the original clutch before wearing it out. We'll see how far the new and hopefully improved one goes. I've got a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty and don't ever plan to get rid of it.

I've driven manual transmissions in most of the vehicles I've owned, for 40 years. I like this one better than most. The 5 speed in my 2006 Pontiac Solstice was a jewel, and the 6 speed in my 2007 Vette is probably the best of all of them. But this one is not far off. I love it. I smile every time I drive it.

And btw, the automatic in my Gladiator is the finest slush box I've ever owned. It's an absolute joy. I think Jeep nailed it, at least from my experience, with both of these transmissions.

But if I had to choose one.....tough call....but I'd keep the manual. It's just so much fun to go through the rpms and gears with that Pentastar. It's really a great match, IMO.

And no way it is a simulation. It's actuated by cables. As many, many manual transmissions have been over the years in many different cars. You can do some research and find some good info on it through Aisin. There are no hydraulics in it, at all. No torque converter. Nothing that would make it an automatic in disguise. Very simple design compared to an automatic, and MUCH smaller.

Side note: Aisin made the manual transmission on my first Jeep...a 1993 YJ. It was great, too! I think it was the AX-5, if I remember. For awhile, Toyota owned a good chunk of the company and I think they still do. I think Tacomas had Aisin transmissions for awhile.

 

[Crane]

so youre saying the answer to my previous question is yes. the intentionally neglected the transmissions based on their financial gain?

Not necessarily. The manual trans has known faults, but their thinking is likely that people buying a manual are purely looking for engagement while offroading. I doubt they envision people towing a lot or running huge tires (like >37") with the base manual. Still they should have had a beefier option available compared to the wrangler trans.

 

[Reddog]

Hello all!!! id really like everyones input and correction on my views and theory on the whole manual transmission debacle. ive really got to get out of this rabbit hole.

i purchased my 2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon in November 2021. it had 6300 miles on it, i just insisted on a manual transmission, searched high and low. over the next 2 years i was constantly researching on the best lift, gearing, etc. to meet my needs until i ran into a company at Jeep Jam 2023, looking at their builds, i could tell that was who i wanted to help me finally pull the trigger and get my rig the way i wanted. great company! couldnt be more happier with my decision. $32,000 later, i creamed my panties. to date im $40,000 into, her taken her to Las Vegas, Grand Canyon, Georgia Traverse, camping, mudding, beaching, etc. i just turned over 80,000 miles as of yesterday. during my journey, i started noticing the transmission issues. around 20,000 miles ago actually. just these weird random issues with shifting into gear, blah blah blah, the same issues everyone has had and had 2 shops tell me it was the synchros, 1 shop say it wasnt, and the dealership say it was because of the centerforce, and centerforce themselves saying i needed to bleed the system. the more aggravating it got the more i started looking into fixing the issue. yes, of course i set up the whole recall process through mopar shortly after purchasing the gladiator but they took so long to issue a fix i had the previous company mentioned install the centerforce for me during the initial build process. the more i researched the more i started to realize that mopar has been pulling the wool over our eyes and have been pulling some hush hush back door "bandaid on a bullet wound fix" before anyone figured it out. first let me disappoint everyone with saying the "manual transmission" isnt that at all. its just a simulation with a 3rd pedal. theres no actual interaction physically between the shifter and transmission itself, its just suspended by a plastic harness over the transmission, with electronic cables sending messages to the computer saying what gear to be in, in correlation to speed and rpm as long as the 3rd pedal is pressed. the recall was issued for the clutch due to over heating, so X amount of manual transmission wranglers and gladiators got the new clutch, along with and unmentioned "software update". when i learned of the "transmission software update", thats when things really started connecting. the software update was to change the computerized gears, which is likely what caused the overheating in the clutch prompting the recall. recently i had the transmission software update, and now im starting to get the "service transmission" message. which i did, and then after a day or two it popped up again. never had a limp mode, still ran as good as it should. so i broke down and had the dealership and had them flush the system and they tell me that it runs great, until 100 miles later....service transmission. so more research and trying to figure this whole deal out and im noticing that a bad clutch cable, bad shifter, bad linkage, and a bad transmission, bad gear position sensor all have the same symptoms. am i the only one that has realized all of the above mentioned? is it all just a big pro profit scam? so far, from the frame down, theres nothing stock, my next step is just lifting my body off and engine and transmission swapping to make the advertised jeep do what it was advertised to do. what has everyone else done? criticisms and corrections welcome and encouraged.

I have no argument with your choices, but would like to know why you favor the stick over the automatic transmission? Not second guessing you here, just curious. I was always a stick guy but now believe that the automatic is superior to the stick in Jeeps for a variety of reasons, the most significant being that the stick they put in the Jeeps today is in no way adequate for the intended use. Easy to knock design choices I guess when one is not the designer but the choice of this standard trans in this case just goes beyond me. Earlier in life I had a Willy's pickup with stick and and high/low box added and late model Chev six cyl conversion and that transmission was bullet proof. It was more than adequate for the purpose. Today, they don't put a serious stick in the jeeps because not enough people want them, and Stellantis is building inferior vehicles for the market because they continue to have too many product lines and their vehicles are too expensive for the intended market. Not just Stellantis doing this but they are making really bad decisions and continuing to push over priced ev's that no one wants. If I were towing with a JT, I would not buy one with a standard trans to do so but that's me. Good luck to you. Hope it all works out.

 

[Naked Chef]

I have no argument with your choices, but would like to know why you favor the stick over the automatic transmission? Not second guessing you here, just curious. I was always a stick guy but now believe that the automatic is superior to the stick in Jeeps for a variety of reasons, the most significant being that the stick they put in the Jeeps today is in no way adequate for the intended use. Easy to knock design choices I guess when one is not the designer but the choice of this standard trans in this case just goes beyond me. Earlier in life I had a Willy's pickup with stick and and high/low box added and late model Chev six cyl conversion and that transmission was bullet proof. It was more than adequate for the purpose. Today, they don't put a serious stick in the jeeps because not enough people want them, and Stellantis is building inferior vehicles for the market because they continue to have too many product lines and their vehicles are too expensive for the intended market. Not just Stellantis doing this but they are making really bad decisions and continuing to push over priced ev's that no one wants. If I were towing with a JT, I would not buy one with a standard trans to do so but that's me. Good luck to you. Hope it all works out.

I had a 2 door wrangler with a standard transmission, and I missed it. I also just feel like having a standard transmission is the thing to do.

 

[Reddog]

I had a 2 door wrangler with a standard transmission, and I missed it. I also just feel like having a standard transmission is the thing to do.

Yep, great Jeeps. My JK had a LS3 crate engine with 6L80 trans and 4:88 gears. Best Jeep I ever had. It pulled a trailer like it was not there, even in the Rockies. Son is still driving it and loves that thing. I have a new LT1 sitting in a crate waiting for the 3.6 to fail. Then it's going in my JT.

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