Leaking axle seal?

[ZSum73]

The seal is on the axle, then the bearing is pressed on. Removing the axle pulls the seal out by the bearing shoving it out. It likely distorts it at the very least.
It's possible to remove bearing, remove seal, put on new seal and bearing and put it all back in but that's more labor, more time, and few shops these days deal with individual parts.
They'd not want to put the original bearing back on because the risk is high of damage taking it off and going back on with it.

This is an earlier Dana 44 from a Grand Cherokee, but it's the same concept.
Retainer goes on, then seal, then bearing is pressed on, then a retainer collar is pressed on.

Note this seal type seals against the housing by those rubber ribs on the circumference of the seal. EXTREMELY unlikely to leak unless it's damaged going in. A bit of lube on the outside of this type of seal keeps it safe going in. Never use lube on the seals with the metal outer shell and red sealer on the outer rim or circumference of the seal!

So looking at videos of replacement and the part on mopar site the Gladys rear axle shaft looks to have a similar rubber seal. So not sure what they were saying metal on metal etc. All strange to me.

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[ZSum73]

Mine isn't leaking but adding sealant (Hondabond) was exactly what i did when i regeared mine truck a few weeks ago. It's a floating oring/seal type, kinda hard to explain. But by design, the axle flange serve 3 purposes. It prevents the axle from popping out, brake caliper adapter from spinning and also pressing in the seal while torqing down the 4 flange nuts. So it's very important to tights it down in criss-cross pattern and little at a time, to avoid pitching the seal.

What i don't like is that, the flange is made out of 3/16 stamped steel. It tend to bend/deform between the 4 studs.

So maybe that's what's going on when installed? But why only the right side? Still a mystery I guess.

 

[Vtur]

So maybe that's what's going on when installed? But why only the right side? Still a mystery I guess.

Probably human error because not every trucks is leaking.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

So looking at videos of replacement and the part on mopar site the Gladys rear axle shaft looks to have a similar rubber seal. So not sure what they were saying metal on metal etc. All strange to me.

Now I think about it, the seals usually do have the rubber rib seal on this configuration. I was thinking of the AMC dual-seal setup when I mentioned the steel outer ring and red sealer.
Since you use the axle to push the seal into place it's just about got to be this type of setup.

 

[Vtur]

Now I think about it, the seals usually do have the rubber rib seal on this configuration. I was thinking of the AMC dual-seal setup when I mentioned the steel outer ring and red sealer.
Since you use the axle to push the seal into place it's just about got to be this type of setup.

The Gladiator seal is in this order. Bearing, a steel ring, seal and another rubber molded steel ring. They are all floating, meaning it's slide freely on the axle. The flange once tighten, it compressed those steel rings against the bearing to expand the seal against the inner axle tube.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

The Gladiator seal is in this order. Bearing, a steel ring, seal and another rubber molded steel ring. They are all floating, meaning it's slide freely on the axle. The flange once tighten, it compressed those steel rings against the bearing to expand the seal against the inner axle tube.

So you are saying the bearing is not lubricated by the lube in the differential housing - it's a sealed bearing? And that the bearing is not pressed onto the axle? So what retains the axle?

No, sorry, that's not the case. I know how these works as I've replaced more axle bearings and seals than I can count over the years.
These are like the prior axles Jeep used, I know the order of the parts and which parts go where.. Retainer, seal, bearing is pressed onto the axle, then a retaining ring is pressed on. The race or cup part of the bearing slips into the axle tube. The retainer with the 4 studs presses the seal in place and compresses or squeezes it there holding it in place.

Here is the actual Gladiator rear axle parts book diagram. Note it looks just like what I posted.
The seal is on the very outside. The bearing and sleeve certainly do not slide freely on the axle! Can't happen or the axle would slip out. I've done a few Jeep axle seals - granted, not the gladiator, but the setup is the same and in the same order.

Retainer is 6 - slide that on first. It holds the axle in the housing by pressing the seal against the bearing (4)
then the seal (5) slides onto the axle.
Then the bearing (4) is pressed on with the wide side to the seal, the narrow side of the cone away from the seal. The other ring you see there is PART of the bearing, it's the "cup" or "race" and does slide into the axle housing. It is not rubber nor rubber coated.
3 is the steel retainer ring that is PRESSED on the axle after the bearing is PRESSED on. Nothing floats freely on the axle.

Here's another Jeep bearing I replaced. The line points to the bearing retainer I cut to relieve pressure and pop everything apart.

 

[Vtur]

So you are saying the bearing is not lubricated by the lube in the differential housing - it's a sealed bearing? And that the bearing is not pressed onto the axle? So what retains the axle?

No, sorry, that's not the case. These are like the prior axles. Retainer, seal, bearing is pressed onto the axle, then a retaining ring is pressed on. The race or cup part of the bearing slips into the axle tube. The retainer with the 4 studs presses the seal in place and compresses or squeezes it there holding it in place.

Here is the actual Gladiator rear axle parts book diagram. Note it looks just like what I posted.
The seal is on the very outside. The bearing and sleeve certainly do not slide freely on the axle! Can't happen or the axle would slip out. I've done a few Jeep axle seals - granted, not the gladiator, but the setup is the same and in the same order.

Retainer is 6 - slide that on first
then the seal slides onto the axle (5)
Then the bearing is pressed on with the wide side to the seal, the narrow side of the cone away from the seal.
3 is the steel retainer ring that is PRESSED on the axle after the bearing is PRESSED on. Nothing floats freely on the axle.

It's a pressed in bearing as usual, but the seal is a 3 pieces seal, it's not stationary like the older axles.

 

[Rusty PW]

The Gladiator seal is in this order. Bearing, a steel ring, seal and another rubber molded steel ring. They are all floating, meaning it's slide freely on the axle. The flange once tighten, it compressed those steel rings against the bearing to expand the seal against the inner axle tube.

Watched a video last night that the guy was installing a ARB locker and Dutchman axles. In the video, it showed the seals. Not what I was expecting. It's like you describe. Stop the video at 3:38 to see the seal.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Watched a video last night that the guy was installing a ARB locker and Dutchman axles. In the video, it showed the seals. Not what I was expecting. It's like you describe. Stop the video at 3:38 to see the seal.

Same exact setup except instead of the retainer pressing directly on a wider seal, they have a shim or spacer pressing on the seal. Otherwise it works exactly the same, no different.
In prior axles the retainer with the studs pressed directly on the seal, squeezing it into place and the seal body was thicker and more meaty on the outside.
So big deal - same exact thing, but one extra part so instead of the retainer, a spacer pushes on the seal.

So what's the big deal? The seal operates exactly the same.
The retainer still pushes the seal in and sets the bearing where it needs to be as far as play/preload.

And yet some are acting like it's a totally different setup.
It's not, it's not new, it's not unique. I had to laugh when I saw that as it is just like I figured with that one simple exception. The seal is identical - just thinner.
The parts diagram I posted above IS Gladiator, like I described.
The seal absolutely IS stationary in the housing! It doesn't rotate in the housing.

Bottom line -
the seal works exactly the same way.
The seal still is pressed into the housing by the retainer with the studs. It does not float, it does not turn, it does not move in the housing. It's not pressed and expanded in the housing.
The seal is still stationary in the housing, it doesn't turn or spin or move freely.
The seal still pushes and holes the bearing in place.

ONE difference - instead of a seal being 30% thicker than the early styles, they made it "thinner" and made up the thickness with a shim or spacer. The retainer pushes on the spacer and the spacer presses the seal into the housing.
Good grief. It's the same design that's been used in other cars and trucks for decades.

 

[Rusty PW]

What's the big deal? I posted that so other people can see what it looks like. Most people don't have a clue.

I was expecting something different. Not that. That caught me off guard.

I have worked with that type of seal used on rotating equipment. It either works good, or can be problematic. Mainly after a rebuild. Either a undersize shaft, or a oversize bore. Or someone had nicked the seal.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

What's the big deal? I posted that so other people can see what it looks like. Most people don't have a clue.

I was expecting something different. Not that. That caught me off guard.

I have worked with that type of seal used on rotating equipment. It either works good, or can be problematic. Mainly after a rebuild. Either a undersize shaft, or a oversize bore. Or someone had nicked the seal.

Why did it catch you off-guard?
I posted pics of the earlier Dana 44 setup.
The seal is the same, as the WJ axle seal and works the same, just narrow with a spacer.
I fail to see any difference other than thickness and a spacer used to take up that difference in thickness and press the seal into the tube rather than the retainer pressing the seal into the tube.
It still fits into the axle tube and seals in the tube the same way as what I posted.

 

[Vtur]

The oring seals only provide a sealed agaisnt the axle tube. There's another sleeve type rubber seal that's molded with the most outer steel ring closest to the retainer. It prevent oil from leaking through the axle shaft into the drum brake area. The steel rings and oring seals can slide back and forward about 1/4" between the retainer and bearing until the retainer is tighten. Oil can leaks through two ways, the oring seals or the rubber sleeve seals. If not careful, the retainer can nick the sleeve seals.

 

[Vtur]

Wish i would've took a closed up photos lol. I was too tired pulled the pinion a couple times to shims.

 

[sdk131]

Well....as expected...I am starting to see signs my leak seems to be returning after it was already repaired twice. Wonderful......I currently only drive 6,000 miles or so per year, and the dealership is only about 5 miles away so I don't have ay fears of a total failure or being stranded, but still just incredibly frustrating and stupid that this issue is even happening.

 

[Gladiator_JT]

I just made a post on this, ended up the actual housing was bent and they're replacing the entire dana 44
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/gladiator-right-rear-axle-leak-update.55402/

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