LED Headlights are dangerous in snow/ice storm

[cgflyer]

I have a 2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon with the LED headlights. Last night I drove home in a snow and ice storm. The headlights got packed with snow/ice since LEDs do not produce enough heat to melt the snow and ice like the old halogen and HID bulbs can.

The snow and ice buildup is horrible, dangerous, and potentially life threatening. I had to pull off and clear snow and ice from the lights multiple times. I was doing this during a dark and stormy night. There is a danger in pulling off and clearing the headlights, you can get hit by a car especially in a dark storm.

There is also a danger of not being seen or not seeing something in the dark. In either case there is the potential to cause an accident.

FCA needs to address this. In fact the DOT should not allow the use of the unheated LED headlights on the road.

Someone adds a heater to the light fixture. The heater could be on a thermostat that triggers the heat to come on at a specific temperature uh as 37 degrees Fahrenheit. Also, add a button to the controls like the windshield and side mirror defrost.

I think FCA, and the other manufactures with unheated LED headlights, should have to conduct a recall of all of them and either fit them with a heating element or replace the head lamp with a halogen or HID version at no cost to the owners.

As for myself, I obviously paid a premium to have the LED lights. Now I am purchasing the halogen version, spending about $300. And I will pull the LED and install the Halogen lights. I am rather annoyed that I paid for a premium LED headlight that cannot be used during any storm with frozen precipitation. And now, I am paying again to fix this negligent design flaw.

I understand your concern, but LED headlights are an option, not standard equipment. If you live in the snow belt, you shouldn't get the LED option or you should install aux halogens for driving in the snow/ice. This is not a new thing...many people have been through this and in some instances, halogens aren't even warm enough to keep up with melting snow and ice.

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[b-roc]

If you are an engineer at heart, read on ... otherwise, you can probably skip this post!

Short version: there is a whole master's thesis on this topic from 2014 - here is the link https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:718397/FULLTEXT01.pdf
My earlier suggestion about looking at the euro spec headlamps seems to be unlikely to be helpful.

Long version: I suggested earlier that we look into the euro led headlights. My thought was that they should be several design cycles ahead of offerings available in the US since others stated that the EU required heating of the LED headlamps. After way too much time with Google, I was unable to find the Euro (ECE) requirement to heat LED headlamps, and when I located photos of the euro spec JL headlights, there were no obvious heating elements in the lens (I admit that doesn't preclude other less effective design solutions though). Also, it seems based off of a 2014 Master's Thesis out of Stockholm that no requirement existed at that time.

If you are looking for WAY too much technical detail on the issue, here is the link https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:718397/FULLTEXT01.pdf

If you just want to see how the BMW LED system that was evaluated performed, go to 8.2.3

Tangentially, if the euro spec equivalent had been an alternative, the main differences that I found are
1) the ECE spec vs the DOT spec for beam pattern is different; however, in many instances FCA has designed their headlights to be compliant with both
2) the majority of the other ECE requirements are more stringent than DOT with respect to headlights/headlamps so would generally be a non-issue
3) The one item that would squarely make a Euro spec (ECE) headlight non-compliant with DOT requirements is the use of autobeam forming. If you want to learn more though, here is AAA's take on it https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/ResearchReportEuroSpecvsUSHeadlamps.pdf
4) At least on the JL euro spec headlamps, there were reports of the halo being disabled

Hopefully, I just saved somebody some quality time with Google

 

[RIPLER]

I got reminded again today how awesome the factory LED headlights are, I'm glad it wasn't night time.

After I cleaned thrm

 

[Mjolnir]

I got reminded again today how awesome the factory LED headlights are, I'm glad it wasn't night time.

After I cleaned thrm

Welcome to almost every stock LED light in the US (minus the recessed portion lol).

 

[sarguy1941]

Lived in upstate NY for 20+ years.. Was in the "lake effect" band most of it. My CJ, Liberty, YJ, JK all had issues with snow pack and all had halogen lights. Its no different than the wipers nd windshield icing up. I would have to stop every 10 miles in some storms to break ice off wipers and while out cleaned the lights too. My mother has the renegade with factory halogen and it does the same in crazy snow storms. Its really no different than the tail lights that cover in snow (on all vehicles) in a storm yet no one complains about that...

 

[ShadowsPapa]

. Its really no different than the tail lights that cover in snow (on all vehicles) in a storm yet no one complains about that...

Big diff between trying to see the edge of the road, the lines, or critters jumping onto the road, staying on the road and seeing things ahead of you - and seeing something you are approaching - as in tail lights covered with snow.

At least if YOUR headlights work, your lights will show the vehicle ahead of you. If you don't see that big dark thing you are approaching............. then your headlights are messed up, you are driving too fast for conditions, or not paying attention, IMO.

 

[bgc227]

Coming from a Raptor and before that an F-350 both with LED headlights neither did this. I am experiencing the same issue you are along with the defrost it’s plain dangerous!

 

[jurfie]

Y’all better just sell your Jeeps and go buy a Corolla.

 

[mike921921]

Y’all better just sell your Jeeps and go buy a Corolla.

Or, just do a halogen swap every season like some do with 'winter tires'.....

 

[jurfie]

Or, just do a halogen swap every season like some do with 'winter tires'.....

It's so dangerous, FCA should do that swap for free every year.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

It's so dangerous, FCA should do that swap for free every year.

Wow, I didn't know that! I am going to my dealer tomorrow for the trailer brake controller fix - I should mention that.
Or maybe park the jt in the winter and drive my infinitely more safe WJ.

 

[Oil_Burner]

I'm just wondering if there is a way to attach some silicone heating pads similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/12V-Flexible-Silicone-Rubber-Heater/dp/B07PFHLP53/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=silicone+heating+pad+12v&qid=1608593391&sr=8-8&th=1
on the inside of the grill around the headlight assembly and possibly to the back side of the LED headlights to put some heat there when you have accumulating snow. That could be hooked up to one of the AUX switches.

The aerospace industry does this for components that need to be heated in super cold conditions to keep them in their operating temperature range.

They make the silicone heating pads in a variety of sizes.

My house Generator has a larger silicone pad under the battery to keep the battery warm in the winter along with a silicone pad wrapped around the oil filter to keep it slightly warm.

 

[BigRed97]

Coming from a Raptor and before that an F-350 both with LED headlights neither did this. I am experiencing the same issue you are along with the defrost it’s plain dangerous!

Always had f250s myself it's Flat/smooth lights vs recessed.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Always had f250s myself it's Flat/smooth lights vs recessed.

Yes, for the snow accumulation, absolutely.
BUT - I've had more Grand Cherokees than I can remember, F250, Silverado, etc. and in Iowa ice storms - doesn't matter. The ICE accumulates.
I have had to get out and remove ice from wipers, windshields, antennas, and HEADLIGHTS on many occasions. Even halogen lights don't get "hot" enough to prevent ice buildup. And when you have a vehicle parked in the lot while you work and come back out to go home and it's 5pm and dark, you have to scrape ice off of those WJ and other headlights or you aren't going to see. They won't warm up enough or fast enough.
A lot of this depends on where you live, where you drive, and more.
I've had all of 'em ice up. Snow, no, only this design gets wet snow pack in there, it's a bloody funnel, duh. But ice, those other smooth designs and conform to the body lines ice up like the rest of the vehicle's front end. That's because as you drive more than a few mph, the moving air keeps that lens cooled off. It's a ways from the bulb and it's plastic and it cools very easily and quickly with the wind blowing across of. I've taken my gloves off and put my hands on the lens in an effort to melt ice to make it easier to get off and the headlight lens is not really warm to the touch.

 

[BigRed97]

Yes, for the snow accumulation, absolutely.
BUT - I've had more Grand Cherokees than I can remember, F250, Silverado, etc. and in Iowa ice storms - doesn't matter. The ICE accumulates.
I have had to get out and remove ice from wipers, windshields, antennas, and HEADLIGHTS on many occasions. Even halogen lights don't get "hot" enough to prevent ice buildup. And when you have a vehicle parked in the lot while you work and come back out to go home and it's 5pm and dark, you have to scrape ice off of those WJ and other headlights or you aren't going to see. They won't warm up enough or fast enough.
A lot of this depends on where you live, where you drive, and more.
I've had all of 'em ice up. Snow, no, only this design gets wet snow pack in there, it's a bloody funnel, duh. But ice, those other smooth designs and conform to the body lines ice up like the rest of the vehicle's front end. That's because as you drive more than a few mph, the moving air keeps that lens cooled off. It's a ways from the bulb and it's plastic and it cools very easily and quickly with the wind blowing across of. I've taken my gloves off and put my hands on the lens in an effort to melt ice to make it easier to get off and the headlight lens is not really warm to the touch.

100% agree. I was only referring to snow build up.

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