Looking for some Advice...

[Wheelin98TJ]

The last resort is to file with your insurance or sue. A letter just says "I think you owe me a new engine and a loaner car at no cost to me" the letterhead is sending the message "you really want to say yes to this request, it's reasonable and I'm willing and able to make a fight of it." It's the legal equivalent of "walk softly and carry a big stick".

You can just say that to the dealer yourself. No need to make a fight.

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[Sweetums]

It's only a fight if the dealer makes it one. I've found things go smoother with a demand letter because dealers (or other companies) think they can push around one person without consequences. An up front demand letter says "I know what I'm doing and I'm not going to be pushed around." Everything goes smoother with one, if the dealer was going to make it right anyway, they will look at that letter and say "yep, that's reasonable, we will take care of you." If they planned to try something shady the letter makes them reconsider and you're more likely to have them say "Yeah, that's reasonable."

 

[Bevo67]

It's only a fight if the dealer makes it one. I've found things go smoother with a demand letter because dealers (or other companies) think they can push around one person without consequences. An up front demand letter says "I know what I'm doing and I'm not going to be pushed around." Everything goes smoother with one, if the dealer was going to make it right anyway, they will look at that letter and say "yep, that's reasonable, we will take care of you." If they planned to try something shady the letter makes them reconsider and you're more likely to have them say "Yeah, that's reasonable."

+1

 

[Farmer Fran]

New vehicle, not going to happen
Long block, not going to happen

They will do a short block and be done with it.

And people ask me why I do not let the dealer touch my vehicle, even for free.

Sorry dude, good luck with this adventure.

 

[SargeDiesel]

It may not lose value on the private market, in fact it would be a wonderful selling point. But when you go to trade in a vehicle they can and will use anything to give you less and for the most part with sales down and prices up they are generally sticking with these numbers. That is where it is coming from. But Yes I am with you, i would much rather buy a vehicle with a new motor than one with a used higher mileage. As far as reporting I think I am not sure that this will have to be reported due to the mileage difference.

My experience with carfax srewed me out of $40k.
Like @ShadowsPapa said, mine got reported because of an accident. Funny thing is, it had to be reported by either my or the other vehicles insurance company, not the repair shop that repaired my vehicle.

The issue I had; the report had my car and the car at fault mixed up. The other car(big suburban) flipped and rolled for well over 100 yards.

When I went to sell the vehicle, because of the type it was (limited # Ford Focus RS built in Germany) they wanted to buy the car... I went through the whole process, they were actually handing me the check and then an underwriter or someone "in charge"... said "oh wait" we need/forgot to run the carfax.... I had no idea my vehicle had ever been reported.

Well, he came back, ripped the check and apologized... stated his insurance policy would not allow the dealership to purchase a flipped vehicle(might have said totaled).

They knew from looking at the vehicle, it had never been severely damaged ( actually they couldn't see any damage at all) and were very apologetic... and said when I got the carfax situation fixed, they would love to have the car.

Good luck trying to get a carfax fixed, updated... or anything else.

Different situations, but a carfax can definitely screw you, it might not carry much weight to some, but it carries enough to others to affect you in certain situations.

 

[SargeDiesel]

Lots of folks have provided thoughts on how to handle this situation .. my 2cents: I would post the whole episode on Yelp and other social media to get the attention of the dealership owners (and maybe even Stellantis). This explicitly names which dealership it was. Oh, and posting helps others in your area decide where NOT to go for service. Just another pressure point.

You would do that BEFORE they even have a chance to make it right ?
I hope I never have an accident with you ?

 

[Wheelin98TJ]

You would do that BEFORE they even have a chance to make it right ?
I hope I never have an accident with you ?

Lawyer up or post on social media. Cause talking to them about it makes too much sense. ?

 

[Rdizz]

Gonna go back and read the whole thread, however, wanted to share some peace of mind that a dealer replaced engine will not tank the value, or affect it at all. Had a motor replaced under warranty on a 2018 jeep 1 year into ownership, sold it just this year with no issues and no loss in value.

This means a lot, thank you.

 

[Rdizz]

My experience with carfax srewed me out of $40k.
Like @ShadowsPapa said, mine got reported because of an accident. Funny thing is, it had to be reported by either my or the other vehicles insurance company, not the repair shop that repaired my vehicle.

The issue I had; the report had my car and the car at fault mixed up. The other car(big suburban) flipped and rolled for well over 100 yards.

When I went to sell the vehicle, because of the type it was (limited # Ford Focus RS built in Germany) they wanted to buy the car... I went through the whole process, they were actually handing me the check and then an underwriter or someone "in charge"... said "oh wait" we need/forgot to run the carfax.... I had no idea my vehicle had ever been reported.

Well, he came back, ripped the check and apologized... stated his insurance policy would not allow the dealership to purchase a flipped vehicle(might have said totaled).

They knew from looking at the vehicle, it had never been severely damaged ( actually they couldn't see any damage at all) and were very apologetic... and said when I got the carfax situation fixed, they would love to have the car.

Good luck trying to get a carfax fixed, updated... or anything else.

Different situations, but a carfax can definitely screw you, it might not carry much weight to some, but it carries enough to others to affect you in certain situations.

I know they can, I also know at times it seems random. If I pull the carfax on my Gladiator hell it shows all oil changes.... I mean oil changes are on there. So I would have to assume an engine replacement will be. The only thing is if an engine replacement will or will not lower a trade in value. One would think it wouldn't seeing how it is a newer engine but then again it could be considered a non factory part even though it is. Will it even be reported who knows, what I do know is apparently oil changes are I guess that depends on the shop doing it. But I would think that so long as it is documented in the case that an engine replacement happens maybe that will even help the value on the private market. The point being it seems that peoples experiences with this will differ. It is probably something that Honestly I do not have to worry about right now, as of now my main concern is the dealership just doing what is right. Having a brand new car ran with no oil to me is just damming to the motor long term, to not be able to trust it on a long road trip etc etc.

Man, I am just all torn apart about this whole situation I am still in disbelief that it happened.

 

[Stan H]

Well I will just jump right into it. Now I do drive a Gladiator, however My wife has a 2023 Jeep Wrangler and today she went and got her "Jeep Wave" oil change (2nd oil change of the vehicles life). Upon leaving everything seemed ok, until I got a phone call that her wrangler just broke down on her and my 2 year old kid in the middle of a major road after hearing an extremely loud "knocking & Ticking" sound. Just to be clear I have worked on cars my whole life an ex Manager of Goodyear, Merchants/NTB. So I instantly knew the issue.... Oil change and knocking eh? I showed up pulled the stick it is BONE DRY I mean nothing on there at all. Slid under the Jeep and wouldnt you know it NO OIL DRAIN PLUG AT ALL. Assuming they screwed it on there loose and it vibrated its way out. Now the issue is in my mind the motor on this brand new vehicle is ruined, I don't care what they will tell me which is sure will be "the engine is fine" which we all know is BS especially since I traced the road back and saw the spill which looks to be a little over a 1/4 mile she drove with 0 oil before the oil pressure sensor kicked in at a stop sign and shut her down.

Now the advice is how do I handle the dealer, you see I feel like I shouldn't accept anything other than a new vehicle as I know and everyone knows that years and countless miles have been lost on this motor today. Basically Am I actually going to have to get a lawyer? Are there any dealership people out there that can help with a bit of advice on how to handle this situation? I don't want to barge in there and be a complete jerk, But I do want what is right here and not to spend over 60k on a brand new Jeep only to have its life cut short.

That's why all 3 of my Jeep wave oil changes and tire rotations etc. We're never used. The Engine needs replaced . The rest of the Jeep wasn't hurt .

 

[Olivia2023]

I would look for a new engine from the dealership in this case, especially if it is a 2.0 four cylinder. Swapping out a complete engine is not really a big deal, I have swapped countless engines. What I would NOT want is a "repair" for an engine operated without oil. When I say repair I mean going into the engine and replacing bearings, pistons and rings, etc. This is because while most dealerships have several good or even better techs (I'm referring to line techs, not the Express Lane lube techs), the dealership is not really set up for properly rebuilding an engine. If your Wrangler has a 2.0, the new engine will come complete with turbo, intercooler, sensors, injectors, etc., at least the last four or five 2.0s that I installed did.

What I would recommend is to give the dealership a chance to do the right thing. They serviced your Jeep so they know that it is on them. Once the "L" word is mentioned, it may slow things down instead of speeding them up. As for a new Wrangler, I don't think they will do that, but I don't know your dealer.

I would agree that mentioning the word "lawyer" initially may not be your best option to start off with. My son had a Dodge Dakota, years ago, that had an engine fire early on in the warranty. While speaking with the Chrysler reps. I seemed to be making some progress until I threatened to obtain legal representation. They then pretty much told me to "go ahead" and wouldn't talk/negotiate with me any longer. I would try my best to come to some sort of terms with them first with the thought that you get more flies with honey than vinegar. I know this situation sucks, and I wish you the best with it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

And I've always used the free services - never a problem except with the first JT - back when no one knew that much about them, and the dealers here sold thousands of Grand Cherokees - I mean it's the official car of Polk County, Iowa - the Grand Cherokee. As my wife says "They're everywhere!"
Anyway, they did 6 quarts. Not a big deal, won't ruin or harm the engine in any way, but gee - time to educate someone about these, went back, the dealer was all over with apologies and "if you can wait I'll pull someone off right now to take care of it". They did another whole oil change. Simply pulling a quart out would have been enough, and I explained I knew that JTs were far and few between - especially at that dealership.
That's the one and only time I've had a problem with oil changes/service/tire rotation at either dealership here.

As far as some of the other stuff - I go in super nice, but prepared with bullet point type facts - here's exactly what happened.
And they know in this process that when I'm happy with service and someone messes up and fixes it, I'll tell everyone how well I was treated and how they took care of it without any back and forth - but if they don't, I'll tell everyone and then some.
I reward good service, and they know it. Treat me right and I'll send people your way any chance I get, even if you have messed up. The end result is what I care about. So I save the "threats" and bad reviews for the very last.

If you go into a room where there's one other person, and you enter in a fit of rage, or even with just "hackles raised" - what's their reaction? Fight mode - even if they were going to be nice and bend over backwards to make things right, if you put them in defense mode or fight mode when you enter that room - they'll forget how to be nice and go into survival mode - or worse.
I learned some of that from my father - for a few years president of a UAW local, and a man who got employees more than anyone else in the past because he went in as a partner, not threatening, but some give and take. Both company and rank and file liked him because of his tactics.
Later learned similar when I was having problems with a couple of other managers at On With Life - I was a manager myself, and there were some overlaps in places and there was friction. I chatted with a neuro-psychologist who taught some things that made total sense, and I ended up being friends with one of those other managers in the end, and one of them actually ended up looking out for me in later months.

There's a lot of psychology and such in things like this - get your rage out here, yell and scream and shout here - and use the best tips going forward when dealing face-to-face with real people.
I may not seem like it here, but I'd be fuming if it was mine - ready to choke someone, and I would definitely rant and carry on and drive my wife nuts - then next week I'd walk in with the facts and get it taken care of.

They are human too......... and for all we know, they may be looking for an excuse to let someone go, or may have wondered about a certain person, maybe it's a new hire. Time will tell.

Wow, what a weird post. But it's been a stupid week and I'm fuming myself over no one at the vet's office telling me it was going to take a freaking week to get meds for Pickle, and cost twice what it costs from another place. Good grief, they could have INFORMED me, now he's got to wait another week for meds when he's going downhill really fast as it is.

 

[HooliganActual]

@Rdizz

First off, I feel bad that this has happened but as many have said, give the dealer a chance to make it right. There is certainly a litany of things that you can do once they say "Not my pig, not my farm" but give them the chance to disappoint you first; then let loose the dogs of war.

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Now [RANT INCOMING], not related to the OP or the actual dilemma he is facing, I would like to sound off a bit about some of the comments in this thread related to Jeep Service/Technicians and this apparent distrust of ever allowing them to do oil changes, tire rotations, etc. to a vehicle. Several times in this thread and in soooo many other threads there is always the proclamation "I will never let the dealer work on my car" (or something similar).

These statements to me are incredulous. I assume that everyone who makes that statement has a job and have screwed up at least once in the course of doing that job and yet can then turn around and villify a Jeep Technician for making a mistake. I'm 59 years old and can't tell you how many times I have been to a McDonald's drive-thru and found out once I got home that they got the order wrong....I'll still go to McDonald's. How many times has my doctor's office billed me incorrectly...still go to that doctor. How many times has my electrical service provider had an outage while I was watching "the big game"...and they still keep my lights on day in and day out.

I know that one could argue that the wrong size order of fries is a far cry different than a failed engine...but it's still just a mistake. When I was younger, I forgot to put the oil cap back on after doing an oil change on my CJ7. It happens. Just yesterday I was fabricating a new bracket for my awning and measured, marked and drilled hole in the bracket only to find I had them out of orientation by 180 degrees....so I had to redo the bracket

These statements would make someone believe that the Jeep Techs are "out to get you" and are in collusion with the sales team to try to get you to buy a new car or some other ridiculous conspiracy. People make mistakes and it should really be about how they handle correcting that mistake that is at issue. And just because someone somewhere one time had a bad interaction shouldn't mean that everybody everywhere all the time will have similar bad interactions. If that was the case, I should never allow myself to do another oil change on my own vehicle ever again (because of the oil cap incident from above). How many of the people here that say that they don't trust anyone else to do maintenance on their vehicle can HONESTLY say that they have never screwed up installing, removing, etc. something on their vehicle. This forum is rife with threads of us guys posting "I just stripped this bolt", "I just drilled through this wire", "I just drove 40 miles on pavement in 4H"...."What should I do?".

I currently have 3 Jeeps and for the last 7, 5, & 3 years I have taken full advantage of Jeep Wave Oil Changes and Tire Rotations. The only thing that I have "suffered" is that they pump my tires up to 40psi or forget to check the air in the spare that was rotated on. I have had a failed ECU replaced under warranty, a damaged gas tank replaced, and several other things done that I didn't feel like doing myself, all without issue. Many (many) years ago I had a dealership forget to put the lugs back on my XJ's rear passenger tire and when I turned left out of their lot, that wheel kept going straight. They hauled the XJ back into the bay and repaired the damaged lugs and brakes.

I agree that Stellantis and the dealerships are trying to make a buck and I don't agree with some of their sleezy tactics (bait and switch sales tactics, price gouging, and a lot of other policies); BUT as a Jeep enthusiast community, can we all just stop demonizing the techs who are just humans (like us) and prone to make mistakes, especially when under the time constraints that their management puts on them to churn out completed jobs. I truly don't believe that any of those techs wake up in the morning, put their Jeep uniform on and say "Who's life am I going to ruin today?"

Who's with me?

 

[Sweetums]

I would agree that mentioning the word "lawyer" initially may not be your best option to start off with. My son had a Dodge Dakota, years ago, that had an engine fire early on in the warranty. While speaking with the Chrysler reps. I seemed to be making some progress until I threatened to obtain legal representation. They then pretty much told me to "go ahead" and wouldn't talk/negotiate with me any longer. I would try my best to come to some sort of terms with them first with the thought that you get more flies with honey than vinegar. I know this situation sucks, and I wish you the best with it.

That's because of corporate policy, a lowly account rep/phone monkey isn't authorized to talk to attorneys, that has to go to the legal department. It's also a control tactic to punish people for getting representation, because people who are represented get more desirable outcomes and that costs the company money.

Don't ever threaten to get a lawyer, just say "we appear to be at an impasse" and then show up with one. This is where a demand letter comes in, it goes straight to the people who can actually make decisions and aren't following a damage control script.

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