Loose Steering?

[Oscar Indy]

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/your-steering-is-not-loose-rant-warning.25301/

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[ShadowsPapa]

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/your-steering-is-not-loose-rant-warning.25301/

You are a trained professional, college educated in automotive, factory trained auto tech and worked for tire dealers, I take it.........

 

[Oscar Indy]

You are a trained professional, college educated in automotive, factory trained auto tech and worked for tire dealers, I take it.........

Since the Eagle was the father of the unibody Jeep such as Cherokee....
84 Eagle wagon w/4.0
81 Eagle SX4
87 Comanche 4.0 5 speed 4x4 Sportruck
90 Cherokee Sport w/4.0
From there on, various year Grand Cherokees save for one time we had a Liberty
We've had several, I've lost track.
I know we had a 2000 and a 2003 Grand Cherokee.
She trades every 2 to 3 years

Currently:
I have my father's 2004 WJ Special Edition with 4.0 I bought after he was killed in an accident
2018 Grand Cherokee
82 Eagle SX4 fully restored (4.0 from 94 ZJ, T5 transmission, NOS NP 129 transfer case)
82 Eagle SX4 I need to find a new body for.
Gladiator Overland on order.

Nice try at ad hominem grandpa.
I had a retort but I ve decided not lower myself to the self proclaimed experts level.
Claims to be an expert. Most his posts are questions an expert should know.....

 

[bmilleker]

Its hilarious, and disrespectful to paint this issue with a single brush, or rant. There is 100% an issue, and it's not solely tire inflation. Check out any JL or JT forum. These aren't your soccer moms complaining about an issue. It's enthusiasts who visit forums to discuss their passions.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Nice try at ad hominem grandpa.
I had a retort but I ve decided not lower myself to the self proclaimed experts level.
Claims to be an expert. Most his posts are questions an expert should know.....

Nice try - but that post makes no sense.
You quote a post on the vehicles I've owned, and for what? So what - it's some of the stuff I've owned and worked on. So?
Further, you give no example of "questions an expert should know".
You want to go against my training and experience, fine - but you - even you - should know that there are specifics at times that make a certain vehicle different if one hasn't dealt specifically with that exact vehicle before. Even long-time Jeep owners are learning about the JT.
I have the papers, awards and trophies to show my expertise - do you?
In fact two phone calls today from nationally known restoration experts asking my advice - and for me to work on their restorations.
I guess a few folks think my work is good and worth the big bucks I get.

Instead of coming back with logic and fact, you come back with attacks. That's what happens when you have no debate material left.
Check my first response in your thread/rant - there was no attack, just the scientific explanation of pressure effect on tires, etc.

 

[Scrubb84]

Its hilarious, and disrespectful to paint this issue with a single brush, or rant. There is 100% an issue, and it's not solely tire inflation. Check out any JL or JT forum. These aren't your soccer moms complaining about an issue. It's enthusiasts who visit forums to discuss their passions.

YES! My passion exactly. That’s why I get butt-hurt and very defensive if someone tries to tell me “it’s a jeep thing” or similar excuses. I lowered my psi when i left the lot. Chalk test. Had dealer alignment and all steering/suspension components torque checked. Brought to independent shop for the same, the guy turning the wheel back n forth said (and showed me) the steering play was not acceptable what so ever.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

YES! My passion exactly. That’s why I get butt-hurt and very defensive if someone tries to tell me “it’s a jeep thing” or similar excuses. I lowered my psi when i left the lot. Chalk test. Had dealer alignment and all steering/suspension components torque checked. Brought to independent shop for the same, the guy turning the wheel back n forth said (and showed me) the steering play was not acceptable what so ever.

Wow, excellent.
It's really sad when we look at the polls and posts and almost all of these are bone-stock, stock tires, etc. and even those that are not have minimal changes (my opinion, anyway) - tires maybe changed but only by a bit, minimal lift, that sort of thing, but the complaints are from those who noticed it from the get-go - stock, driving from the dealer, etc.

 

[Scrubb84]

Wow, excellent.
It's really sad when we look at the polls and posts and almost all of these are bone-stock, stock tires, etc. and even those that are not have minimal changes (my opinion, anyway) - tires maybe changed but only by a bit, minimal lift, that sort of thing, but the complaints are from those who noticed it from the get-go - stock, driving from the dealer, etc.

This is so aggravating because i’ve had my new 35” KM3’s on new Dirty Life rims a month before I took delivery of my JTR and I haven’t been able to put em on yet (almost 2 months now). I knew on my drive home from the dealer I needed to find a place to store them because I’m not even going to take a single lug nut off till the steering gets fixed.

 

[Oscar Indy]

YES! My passion exactly. That’s why I get butt-hurt and very defensive if someone tries to tell me “it’s a jeep thing” or similar excuses. I lowered my psi when i left the lot. Chalk test. Had dealer alignment and all steering/suspension components torque checked. Brought to independent shop for the same, the guy turning the wheel back n forth said (and showed me) the steering play was not acceptable what so ever.

What size tires?
What width Rim?
What kind of alignment machine was used?
What suspension mods? If any.
What PSI?
What weight have you added?

I see one guy claiming you have a loose sector shaft but I don't see video of this. I don't see where you attempted our own alignment. I've been racing modern Jeeps since they came out. I've been on every major forum and every time a new model comes out people bitch about something with the steering. After digging into the hundreds of Jeeps or fixed for friends and different club members over an extensive Jeep ownership lifetime I have seen exactly 2 boxes be the culprit. Both were on very high mileage JKs running over sized tires and the boxes were leaking.

So I'll put that experience against any dealer out there. I have never been an employee of an auto dealer nor would I chose to be. I make a lot more money solving these exact kind of engineering problems.

 

[Scrubb84]

What size tires?
What width Rim?
What kind of alignment machine was used?
What suspension mods? If any.
What PSI?
What weight have you added?

I see one guy claiming you have a loose sector shaft but I don't see video of this. I don't see where you attempted our own alignment. I've been racing modern Jeeps since they came out. I've been on every major forum and every time a new model comes out people bitch about something with the steering. After digging into the hundreds of Jeeps or fixed for friends and different club members over an extensive Jeep ownership lifetime I have seen exactly 2 boxes be the culprit. Both were on very high mileage JKs running over sized tires and the boxes were leaking.

So I'll put that experience against any dealer out there. I have never been an employee of an auto dealer nor would I chose to be. I make a lot more money solving these exact kind of engineering problems.

Well then, you Sir can tell everyone how to fix this ...... what goes into the steering box doesn’t come out of the steering box, on mine at least (visually verified). Track bar, drag link, etc are all tight and even the tiny bit of frame flex isn’t the issue. You can take the fn tires off the rims and it’s not going to change the amount of slop in the box. Maybe you’ve been drinking too much to understand.

 

[Scrubb84]

Well then, you Sir can tell everyone how to fix this ...... what goes into the steering box doesn’t come out of the steering box, on mine at least (visually verified). Track bar, drag link, etc are all tight and even the tiny bit of frame flex isn’t the issue. You can take the fn tires off the rims and it’s not going to change the amount of slop in the box. Maybe you’ve been drinking too much to understand.

Bone stock Rubicon and I weight around 200lbs. Btw

 

[Oscar Indy]

Bone stock Rubicon and I weight around 200lbs. Btw

So the aftermarket bumper in your profile is someone else's?

There are more questions I need answered to give you a proper fix.
If you'd rather you can fly me out to New York and cover all my expenses and I'll just fix it for you. If it doesn't track at 70/80 when I'm done I'll hand you cash to cover any expenses I have. I travel light so basically tickets and some food. I don't wanna screw anyone over and I have nothing to gain by helping you.

To be fair I had similar issues with my Jeep off the lot but I did my own alignment and chalk test and they all went away.

A big key here is not using an alignment machine. Straight garbage.

 

[Scrubb84]

So the aftermarket bumper in your profile is someone else's?

There are more questions I need answered to give you a proper fix.
If you'd rather you can fly me out to New York and cover all my expenses and I'll just fix it for you. If it doesn't track at 70/80 when I'm done I'll hand you cash to cover any expenses I have. I travel light so basically tickets and some food. I don't wanna screw anyone over and I have nothing to gain by helping you.

To be fair I had similar issues with my Jeep off the lot but I did my own alignment and chalk test and they all went away.

A big key here is not using an alignment machine. Straight garbage.

ok, you got me on the qtech aluminum front bumper which is pretty light. 86lbs minus the stock bumper weight. I also agree with you about alignment rack, that’s why I payed another shop to do what the dealer said they did. Not only do you have to trust the machine, but you have to trust that the idiot back there is going to give enough of a $hit to actually adjust anything that is out of spec.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Well then, you Sir can tell everyone how to fix this ...... what goes into the steering box doesn’t come out of the steering box, on mine at least (visually verified). Track bar, drag link, etc are all tight and even the tiny bit of frame flex isn’t the issue. You can take the fn tires off the rims and it’s not going to change the amount of slop in the box. Maybe you’ve been drinking too much to understand.

Check out these results - so far no one said that their other Jeeps have done this.
In fact, 16 so far have said yes, their JT does this but their other Jeeps did not. But no one has said that their JT does it and their others did too.

You did notice that the word is out of a new sector revision and new firmware? Apparently FCA is or has been aware - we'll see how true that is.
I also find it interesting that two IDENTICAL Jeeps, I mean both of the same level, same options and one does it, the other does not.
Two of the same level and the same tires, wheels, all the same but driver weight and one acts poorly and the other does fine.
You even indicated you lowered the pressure in your tires. Mine is running at 38 and is just fine and yet there's another Overland (even the same color) and it's got the problem.
This poll as well as the fact that two identical Jeeps, one may act poorly and the other not..... and no one who responded to this poll says their other Jeeps do the same thing.......

 

[ShadowsPapa]

ok, you got me on the qtech aluminum front bumper which is pretty light. 86lbs minus the stock bumper weight. I also agree with you about alignment rack, that’s why I payed another shop to do what the dealer said they did. Not only do you have to trust the machine, but you have to trust that the idiot back there is going to give enough of a $hit to actually adjust anything that is out of spec.

An independent shop doesn't have a horse in this race so is less likely to say "it's a Jeep thing" which the poll I took an image of and posted here should also show - it's not "a Jeep thing".
Bet the difference in the bumper is not as great as the difference in the weight of some of the drivers here LOL

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