Loose Steering?

[JET_83]

They can both do general offroading just as well. SFA is vastly superior for rock crawling. You just can't articulate an IFS like you can an SFA.

People are doing solid front axle swaps on the new bronco, and it's not a cheap swap.

What’s the F stand for sorry I dunno that

Meh, there's still more articulating to the solid than IFS. Yes, IFS has matured and improved, but there's still only so much that can be done.

The upper control arm of Bronco straddles the spring, and the steering knuckle rides fairly close, so that upper arm can only swing down so far before it has to stop, there's no way around it. They did compensate by curving the knuckle back behind the spring and the upper control arm is also configured to keep the ball joint to the rear of the spring. They gained ground there, but the upper arm itself still can swing down only so far.
I am not going to trash the Bronco - they clearly aimed for a good on-road experience. Lower unsprung weight, R&P steering, they aimed for more road, occasional off-road with some limits.

A solid axle pivots almost from the opposite side of the vehicle, IFS pivots on the same side as the control arms and only a few inches in. It's just impossible to get the same articulation. Can't be done.

The strength of the arms and the tie rods sort of makes me nervous - I can see those busting if you tried to keep up with your buddy's Wrangler in really rough, rocky places.

But max articulation wasn't their goal. Stability and tight steering on the road, even rough roads, handling washboard roads better, it's a compromise and I can see people buying them who don't climb 60" tall rocks every weekend but want to get off road and not get caught crossing a ravine.

thanks, man!

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[ShadowsPapa]

Probably "Solid Front Axle"

 

[Murgatroid]

Howdy! This is my first post! I just bought a Mojave on Saturday and was wondering if anyone has had an issue with the steering feeling loose. I am sure there is amore technical term for it, but that's what it feels like. I've had Jeeps before and never had this feeling while driving them. I have to constantly give it correction to stay centered in my lane. Thoughts? Alignment? Are the tires pulling? I love my Gladiator and always will, even with the quirks that come along with it. Happy Friday everybody!

First thing I would do is check your cold tire pressure. It is usually way high from factory for some reason, like 5lbs over inflated. That really helped mine when I picked it up in 2019.

 

[B1tPirate]

I have a '22 Sport and my steering has not been an issue. I have 5,000+ miles with most of those being interstate miles. I tend to drive a bit faster than others, even when the governor kicks in there is still no problem. I have heard lots of problems from Rubicon owners and almost didn't get a Gladiator because of it, but my Sport has driven great since the test drive.

I personally have not heard from any Sport/Sport S owners with the issue, but that may just be coincidence.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

There are multiple threads on this with many dozens, if not hundreds, of posts. I betcha you'll find all possible info in those existing threads, including some Sport owners who have had steering issues, what's been tried, what worked, what didn't and more.
This ain't new and there's pretty much nothing that hasn't been tried, touched or covered.

There's nothing different about Sport that would exclude them from the club.
In fact, other than Mojave, the other trims share a whole lot of common parts including control arm, track bars, steering gear, tie rods and more.

But again, this has been covered to death in other threads. I started researching it 2.5 years ago. That's how far back some of us go with this thing.

Other than steering gear, some have found other issues at the root of their "loose steering" - so it might make sense to search and read and research those rather than reinvent the wheel as if this is new.

This is Deja Vu all over again. "Another loose steering thread" LOL

207 pages -
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...b-08-074-20-for-improved-steering-feel.33705/

3 pages -
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/threads/steering-issue-in-gladiator-front-end.54833/

3 pages -
https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ep-is-this-normal-steering.54372/#post-891138

and I found at least a couple of others with quite a few pages.
Some good info in those, and some bad info as well.
there are common causes, but what has helped with some doesn't guarantee a fix for all.
Probably 4,000 posts on loose steering or steering wander or steering pull.........

 

[brianinca]

Quick ratio recirculating ball steering from Chrysler was no joke. My Dad lost his mind and let me drive the old "family car" in high school. 1967 Barracuda Formula S, 273 Commando, highway gearing (2.73 rear end as I recall) and MANUAL quick ratio steering, 904 automatic. WAAAAAY too fast a car for a kid, but my parents thought of it as a family car.

I let friends drive it, they couldn't believe how heavy the steering was, but I thought it was great, no question where you were and incredible feedback from the wheels on the road. Tall gears were for the Autobahn, car was bought when my folks were there courtesy of Uncle Sugar.

Learned to get pulled over by cops going through s-curves at 2X the posted limit. Also learned to adjust solid lifter valve lash (helpful on Honda motorcycles and Toyota Land Cruisers), adjust 4 bbl carburetors (again with the Honda motorcycles), dual point ignitions (never helpful again), and replace motor mounts (helpful on Jeep YJ and CJ).

I don't have to question myself about steering, I KNOW what it should feel like and when it is BROKEN. If someone tries to BS me, woe betide them.

No, because the rack and pinion is relatively new to vehicles in general.
Yes, rack and pinion is quick and tight, but that's the case no matter what you compare it to that has recirculating ball steering.
Ratio has a lot to do with it. Quick ratio or variable ratio steering can make a big difference.
Maybe people are spoiled by modern rack and pinion, but it wasn't long ago at all that the majority of cars and trucks didn't have it.
So if people are griping because they have only ever driven rack and pinion and that's all they know so they gripe - then I say DUH!
And maybe that's the case - first time buyers have never in their lives driven anything without quick ratio rack and pinion - they've got no experience on which to base complaints.

 

[brianinca]

The M151 was a Ford, it was fully independent suspension front and rear. My Dad has stories about about several medevacs he did in Germany for severe rollover injuries from the crappy suspension in McNamara's "jeep". NOTHING to do with solid axle JL's or JT's, or any other real Jeep.

Funny you should ask! Last time I drove a keep was in the Army! M151!! They were all over! Anyway, got a Willy’s sport and felt like what you explained. Got a Metal Cloak 2.5 game changer lift and all is fine, if fact way better!!!

 

[brianinca]

I came home with mine in June 2020 in a high wind West Coast situation, but it wasn't right. Dropping the 42 PSI tire pressure to 36 PSI helped a LOT, but putting in LCA's from the 2" Mopar lift settled things down dramatically. My favorite suspension shop told me the lack of caster was a problem FROM THE FACTORY, so that gave me a hint about how to resolve it. They dialed in as much toe as spec allowed, and between that and 6 deg of caster, it worked well enough to tow a big trailer fine. Until the steering box replacement, which fixed EVERYTHING up really well.

Bad steering means it is broken, take it to the dealer and get it fixed.

We ran 1250 miles across the desert at 85+ last month, to from CA to UT and back, in HORRENDOUS wind - like, national weather service storm warnings wind. My wife drove 90% on pavement, and the Jeep did great. Bad steering? NO! When it isn't BROKEN a JT steers just like it should.

The

The night I drove mine home from the dealership was in a good old Florida thunderstorm with high winds etc, it had me about ready to turn around and take it back. The next day driving was a little better, but a little wishey washie still.
I was preparing myself to do the steering box adjustment, but put if off and kept driving it. It has been about three weeks now since I brought it home and it seems a little easier to drive, I need less than two lanes to keep it in the middle now. Since I have gotten use to it I have decided maybe it was just me being use to my other tighter handling car. Anyway I have decided to not mess with it and just drive it. My wife says she thinks it drives just fine, but she drives on the sidewalk and curbs most of the time anyway =) Enjoy

 

[DailyMoparGuy]

I have the Sport S Max Tow and it is fine. I can let go of the wheel at 65 mph and it stays straight as a bird. I generally can drive it with one hand a few fingers on the bottom of the steering wheel. I have driven it with a 55 mph side wind and other than the force of the brick push the steering help well keeping me in the lane. Everything is stock on mine. All my changes have been aesthetics.

Same here on mine. A couple fingers to steer up to 65 or 70 mph unless it’s windy. If it’s windy, I need 1 full hand. I’ve never needed 2 hands on the highway unless it’s pouring rain.

Small lift and 35s on my max tow. I definitely lucked out in the steering performance department I think. It’s direct and steady with no noticeable play.

 

[brianinca]

IFS can't. TFL had a hilarious post where some subscriber brought his old beater WJ in, with lift and tires and a locker. They brought their juiced, lifted and locked VW Touareg in for comparison, similar vintage but 2X difference in original purchase price.

"Not a tire put wrong and not a tire in the air" - yes, the SCORE racers are all IFS and featherweight with huge power, but at low speeds 100% tire traction will beat 75% tire traction on the regular.

Wheel more and you'll get it.

@ShadowsPapa, what’s the sole purpose of Jeep choosing the solid axle over IFS if both can off road just as well?

 

[brianinca]

Spend $61 and put the Mopar 2" lift LCA's on. Get the caster above 5 degrees, see how you feel about it then.

Jeep cheaped on that aspect of the Mojave, it was a poor choice on their part.

A quarter turn is likely to be way too much. Go a clock position at a time.


As someone who has spent WAY more time researching the steering issues on these things than I had ever hoped to, I can tell the OP a couple of things.

1. A lot of Gladiators come from the factory with a host of issues regarding the steering.
2. The problem seems to be markedly worse in the Mojave package.

Is it the different suspension and shocks?
Is it the different ride height?
Is it all of that and more?
I don't know, but as soon as I can get an order in for a '23 Rubicon I think that's where I am headed.

I drove a 22 that the dealer had on the lot, while waiting to have mine checked out again, and the difference is appreciable. Was that Rubicon a lottery winner? Who knows?
I probably would've traded then and there if it had been the color I wanted with the options I wanted.

A lot of the current vehicles were built under the unusual times of covid. Supply problems. Labor problems. What else? (rhetorical)

I will not have another Mojave. It's a shame, because I think it's the best looking of all of them. But looks only go so far.

With the majority of my steering issues resolved through work and parts I have done on my own, the next big things on my Mojave are the CEL single cylinder misfire under heavy acceleration, and the newfound knowledge that the shocks have to be, or should be serviced at some point down the road, involving possibly going weeks with nothing to drive.

I wanted a truck, not a dependent.

In addition to my comments in other posts about the steering gearbox adjustment, stabilizer replacement , tire pressures, alignment, rear stabilizer hanger lost bolt, and geometry correction brackets, watch and learn about how to test the steering system for slop movement here.





BTW - I've been off road once.

Yeah, it's depressing to have spent that much money on something and be faced with these gloomy prospects of having to diagnose and fix problems yourself, because "It's a Jeep thing".
You have my sympathy and empathy on that.

Good luck and keep us posted. We're putting together a thousand piece puzzle here, and you might have that one little piece we've all been missing because the cat played with it last night.

 

[JET_83]

Every solid axle Jeep I have ever owned has had the pull to the left or right depending on the terrain and tires. It's not a Trim level thing, it's basically comes down to them being solid axles and the type of tires your running, tread design, some will be worse than others, it's still going to do it. Never understood why people get so worked up over it, years and years of research and post about Wranglers doing it, you would think by now people would just accept it or buy something else.

It doesn’t happen with the overland like I’ve seen it with the Rubi and Mojave, but I guess it’s because of the tires and lift on those

 

[JET_83]

Every solid axle Jeep I have ever owned has had the pull to the left or right depending on the terrain and tires. It's not a Trim level thing, it's basically comes down to them being solid axles and the type of tires your running, tread design, some will be worse than others, it's still going to do it. Never understood why people get so worked up over it, years and years of research and post about Wranglers doing it, you would think by now people would just accept it or buy something else.

The pull definitely isn’t normal nor just a Jeep thing either and it can be corrected

 

[Jeeperjamie]

The pull definitely isn’t normal nor just a Jeep thing either and it can be corrected

I'm particularly speaking about pulling away from the grade on a road and different tires and tread patterns will do it more than others. A M/T will grab ahold of a groove in the road and pull you with it compared to a regular street tire or A/T. It's also does it worse on Solid axle vehicles compared to IFS vehicles. On level smooth road it should drive straight as a arrow though. All I'm saying is some misinterpreted vehicles pulling with them getting into grooves on a particular road, not saying that it's the case with all, but a lot can be corrected with different tires and some don't understand that.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Every solid axle Jeep I have ever owned has had the pull to the left or right depending on the terrain and tires. It's not a Trim level thing, it's basically comes down to them being solid axles and the type of tires your running, tread design, some will be worse than others, it's still going to do it. Never understood why people get so worked up over it, years and years of research and post about Wranglers doing it, you would think by now people would just accept it or buy something else.

Maybe yours have, but it's not a solid axle thing and there's no reason for them to.
Not if camber and caster are set correctly and the split is correct and the correct direction.

If that was the case, every Grand Cherokee prior to the WK2 platform would pull. And they just didn't. We never had any pull on any of our Grand Cherokees. Even the one I had until last year with over 128,000 miles on it would track straight down the road.
There's no science behind the solid axle pulling and the IFS not. Not if the factory jigs set things correctly.
It's likely the Wrangler is a different situation because of its purpose.

When I look at the angles on mine I can see why it would lead to the right when in the right lane - but you can't adjust camper and caster split is also welded in.

It's not the axle design, it's the angles, caster split, camber and camber difference left to right, and other angles that most don't check or don't know how to check, and that can't be changed on these, or even most vehicles (but are more easily controlled on IFS)

ZJ, WJ, both solid axle, no pull or lead to the side.

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