Mopar 2" Lift Kit - Free Length & Spring Rate

[JeepOfTheseus]

Did you make the switch?

Haven't installed them yet - waiting on a couple more things (and time to do them). Was just getting cold feet while I wait, because I saw one thread where the owner said the AEV 3" HD added another 2.5" on top of his existing 3" kit.

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[chorky]

Waterport is 8 ga, so about 60 lb there. At most, I would carry 8 ga of drinking water and 8 ga of fuel via 8 x 2 ga Rotopax on the roof rack (~100 lb). Dometic 35 fits in the bed at 40 lb dry. Dometic 75 is 60 lb dry, but that only fits in the cab on the rear seat. Roam 95L is 25 lb dry, 55L is 20 lb, 45QT cooler is 30 lb - if I had to ballpark, they are all double that loaded, so ~150 lb.

If I was geared up all-in again for a multi-day excursion like I did in Death Valley (3 days), probably an extra 500-600 lb of gear minimum. I'm exploring the option of keeping the Dometic 35 in the bed on a more daily use-case, but that's a minimal amount of weight overall.

Yeah so you are pushing to the GAW rating with that loadout. It depends on your driving style. Fast and hard, or slow and calculated. For the latter, the standard springs will be ok based on my own experience and ride style. But one could consider the HD if you were doing trips frequently and often. When I remove my kitchen gear, remove water and food, it rides well. Only when I am fully loaded do I hit the bump stops if not careful. But at that amount of weight, not being careful can bring about other more serious issues.

Since you already have the shocks, getting the upgraded bilsteins probably is not a good choice but they are a lot more than just remote reservoir shocks. I would be concerned about the fox shocks with the HD springs though as those shocks are designed with factory spring rates in mind and are linear whereas the AEV bilsteins are digressive. It might be worth calling, say Northridge. I know from experience Fox just wont be willing to talk about it and AEV kinda keeps their tuning wrapped pretty tight as well.

Haven't installed them yet - waiting on a couple more things (and time to do them). Was just getting cold feet while I wait, because I saw one thread where the owner said the AEV 3" HD added another 2.5" on top of his existing 3" kit.

that sounds like a miscommunication. AEV advertises I think 3” with the HD lift. If it was higher than 3.5, then you would be needing adjustable control arms and extended brake lines. I think some words maybe got crossed in that other thread. It does not make sense to me to be 3” over the existing 3” lift. AEV doesnt roll that way, they are geared more for ‘overlanding’ style not rock crawling.


Someone here did post a while ago the length of the mopar lift springs. I dont know if anyone ever figured out the spring rates though.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

Yeah so you are pushing to the GAW rating with that loadout. It depends on your driving style. Fast and hard, or slow and calculated. For the latter, the standard springs will be ok based on my own experience and ride style. But one could consider the HD if you were doing trips frequently and often. When I remove my kitchen gear, remove water and food, it rides well.

For off-roading, definitely a slow and calculated driver. The risk isn't worth it for me.

that sounds like a miscommunication. AEV advertises I think 3” with the HD lift. If it was higher than 3.5, then you would be needing adjustable control arms and extended brake lines. I think some words maybe got crossed in that other thread. It does not make sense to me to be 3” over the existing 3” lift. AEV doesnt roll that way, they are geared more for ‘overlanding’ style not rock crawling.

That's what I was wondering, too. I read it multiple times to be sure...I thought for sure it meant over stock, but the way it reads makes it seem like an additional amount.

I did actually speak to AEV and he said I was borderline, but with load-out the HD probably makes more sense. I don't recall if I mentioned I was pairing with the Fox 2.5, though.

 

[chorky]

For off-roading, definitely a slow and calculated driver. The risk isn't worth it for me.



That's what I was wondering, too. I read it multiple times to be sure...I thought for sure it meant over stock, but the way it reads makes it seem like an additional amount.

I did actually speak to AEV and he said I was borderline, but with load-out the HD probably makes more sense. I don't recall if I mentioned I was pairing with the Fox 2.5, though.

yeah its a tough call. I am a little heavier than you and I am snuggling also with a decision. Because even being heavy, I still have about a half inch of rake. Which seeems crazy. So far I have come across only one person with HD springs that said with the alu-cab canopy camper the springs were super stiff. But who knows what other gear they had or what their total weight was. My personal concern is the HD springs will overpower the AEV shocks and somewhat bring back the rubicon bounce. Although they say that is not the case, but the 5100’s seem slightly under dampened to me. But with calculated driving they are just fine.

another thing to consider is compressed and extended length of the fox shocks compared to what AEV includes. Since your using a different shock, there is a potential that if the shocks extend too far you could unseat a spring. I think this is unlikely but something to consder.

usually shocks are the big deal when dealing with ride quality. Even if you are overweight. I am blown away that with my
weight the SD springs ride as good as they do. But of course if you really want to salve all the problems you could go with these. it effectively takes a digressive shock and turns it into a progressive shock.

the only other step would be a custom tune option.

 

[darkhorse13]

Here's my take on SD vs HD springs... and some threads if you want to go down the rabbit hole

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ith-600lb-constant-load-overland-build.55227/

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...rade-or-none-of-the-above.66997/#post-1099242

I weighed my rig on a CAT scale recently and I was at a total of 7240lb
- full camping equipment = see my post here of what I carry
- bike rack swingout (50lb), bike rack (50lb), one bike (33lb)
- NO H2O in my 19.2 gal tank
- me in driver seat (170lb)

In my opinion, if you want to stick with SD springs...
1) Between 300-500lb constant load in the rear
a) Synergy springs = you can go with the same lift height spring front and rear as Synergy
builds in factory OEM rake (roughly 1.5" I think) and you will net out close to "level" with load
b) Clayton and I believe other SD springs shoot to give a "level" stance when lifting. Thus, you
can stick with same lift height springs front and rear PLUS a 3/4" Daystar spacer in the rear to
get back to "level" or a slight rake with load

In my opinion, when you should go to HD springs...
1) Over 500lb constant load in the rear
a) Synergy springs = you can go with the same lift height spring front and rear PLUS a 3/4"
Daystar spacer in the rear to get back to "level" or a slight rake (I personally run this so I know)
b) Clayton and I believe other SD springs, stagger the spring height by going with a 1" taller
spring in the rear. I ran Clayton SD 2.5" front and SD 3.5" rear to achieve a "level" stance with
load
c) AEV, Dobinson, Clayton.

As far as shocks the OEM Rubi shocks, IMO, frankly suck... I was all swaying all over the road under weight with those shocks. I'd recommend at least aftermarket Fox 2.0's or the Fox 2.5 monotube from JKS. I have the Falcon SP2 3.3's and they are really great at controlling body roll but they are slightly firm IMO.

 

[darkhorse13]

Long story long... if you have the extra 500lb+ constant load I don't think the AEV HD's are going to be stiff. Look at @GPFACTOR on Insta as he's heavy and he loves them. You need the weight though.

As far as shocks, Falcon SP2 3.3's will stiffen any spring and you'll have the control you're looking for. I personally didn't like the digressive valving on-road and found that small bump compliance and road chatter were too firm. Off road though they handled my rig's weight nicely and did not head bobble at all. I just didn't like wash board with them... so rough.

I also heard that the AEV frequency tune claim actually works and reduces the judder.

I now run Fox 2.5 Elites and the ride is much nicer but I feel that the low speed compression is slightly under-valved for MY WEIGHT. I run full firm on low speed and middle setting for high speed on road. I'll crank up the high speed to the max off road. I am going to get the Fox's sent out to Accutne for their Dual Sport tune in the future.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

another thing to consider is compressed and extended length of the fox shocks compared to what AEV includes. Since your using a different shock, there is a potential that if the shocks extend too far you could unseat a spring. I think this is unlikely but something to consder.

It's a good point. The Fox 2.5 which I will be using are 16.340"/26.510" in the front, 17.340"/28.310" in the rear. Looks to be about .5-1" less than Bilstein for the same lift range, so it shouldn't extend enough to unseat.

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

Here's my take on SD vs HD springs... and some threads if you want to go down the rabbit hole

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...ith-600lb-constant-load-overland-build.55227/

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...rade-or-none-of-the-above.66997/#post-1099242

I weighed my rig on a CAT scale recently and I was at a total of 7240lb
- full camping equipment = see my post here of what I carry
- bike rack swingout (50lb), bike rack (50lb), one bike (33lb)
- NO H2O in my 19.2 gal tank
- me in driver seat (170lb)

In my opinion, if you want to stick with SD springs...
1) Between 300-500lb constant load in the rear
a) Synergy springs = you can go with the same lift height spring front and rear as Synergy
builds in factory OEM rake (roughly 1.5" I think) and you will net out close to "level" with load
b) Clayton and I believe other SD springs shoot to give a "level" stance when lifting. Thus, you
can stick with same lift height springs front and rear PLUS a 3/4" Daystar spacer in the rear to
get back to "level" or a slight rake with load

In my opinion, when you should go to HD springs...
1) Over 500lb constant load in the rear
a) Synergy springs = you can go with the same lift height spring front and rear PLUS a 3/4"
Daystar spacer in the rear to get back to "level" or a slight rake (I personally run this so I know)
b) Clayton and I believe other SD springs, stagger the spring height by going with a 1" taller
spring in the rear. I ran Clayton SD 2.5" front and SD 3.5" rear to achieve a "level" stance with
load
c) AEV, Dobinson, Clayton.

As far as shocks the OEM Rubi shocks, IMO, frankly suck... I was all swaying all over the road under weight with those shocks. I'd recommend at least aftermarket Fox 2.0's or the Fox 2.5 monotube from JKS. I have the Falcon SP2 3.3's and they are really great at controlling body roll but they are slightly firm IMO.

Thanks for the writeup. As I suspected, seems like I'm closer to the SD range for daily, but into HD territory for camping. I'm hoping it won't be too firm, but also wondering about rake. Would prefer little to zero added rake. I do have the Teraflex 1.5" spacer that I never installed. I believe it can be installed as either .5, 1.0, or 1.5, and thinking to throw the .5" on there.

 

[chorky]

Thanks for the writeup. As I suspected, seems like I'm closer to the SD range for daily, but into HD territory for camping. I'm hoping it won't be too firm, but also wondering about rake. Would prefer little to zero added rake. I do have the Teraflex 1.5" spacer that I never installed. I believe it can be installed as either .5, 1.0, or 1.5, and thinking to throw the .5" on there.

here is another idea that I have been thinking of. Adding a air spring. Several on here have used them. I believe they are just made for the stock springs but I am sure theres a way or option to make one work with the lift. That would offer the most modular ability

 

[Gizmo]

Each front 806 and 807 are each a hair under 19"

 

[JeepOfTheseus]

Took pictures of the front and rear. Length is very similar, but the dual rate is obviously the big difference.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

Took pictures of the front and rear. Length is very similar, but the dual rate is obviously the big difference.

Wire size or diameter (I've got some springs that have different wire sizes depending on where you measure) number of oils, distance between coils, it's not length and coils alone.

Rate is the number of pounds necessary to compress a spring 1".

Lower spring rates will provide you with a softer feel, but you get more grip.
When going over a bump or curb, softer springs will maintain contact with the road better than stiffer springs.

If springs are too stiff, ride quality will suffer, and your tires won’t be able to do their job correctly on bumpy and uneven roads.

Here's a great example/explanation of a constant rate spring -
Spring rate refers to the amount of weight that is needed to compress a spring one inch. If the rate of the spring is linear, its rate is not affected by the load that is put on the spring. For example, say you have a 200 lb. per inch spring - it will compress 1” when a 200 lb. load is placed onto the spring. If another 200 lbs. is put onto the spring, the spring will compress another inch. At this point the load on the spring is 400 lbs. The rate of the spring, however, remains constant at 200 lbs. per inch.

 

[Mr.Wilson]

I guess it should be said, i run the Rubicon mopar 2” on Dana 44 HD which may be a different setup than what you have .. but i am fond of the Clayton HD overland that Clayton Offers

So you swapped out the springs that come with the Mopar 2” lift kit with the Clayton 2.5” springs?

 

[Mr.Wilson]

So you swapped out the springs that come with the Mopar 2” lift kit with the Clayton 2.5” springs?

So you swapped out the springs that come with the Mopar 2” lift kit with the Clayton 2.5” springs?

?

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