Oil - going from 0w20 to 0w40

[Stan H]

I was trying to find out a while back what oil they specify elsewhere in the world. All I found was 0w-20 for recent years. Here is what it says in the French version of the 2021 Gladiator owner's manual:

Nous recommandons l'utilisation d'huile moteur SAE 0W-20 certifiée parl'API, conforme aux exigences de la norme MS-6395 de FCA, telle queMopar, Pennzoil et Shell Helix. Consultez l'inscription sur le bouchon deremplissage d'huile du moteur pour connaître l'indice de viscosité SAEappropriée.

Say Huh ? I couldnt read that

Davey, oh Davey , mweh, buddy despite what " people" use in Europe every 3.6VVL on the planet uses 0W-20
As a matter of fact Much of Europe and Great Britain sits in higher latitudes and its colder there long about the 38° so using a thicker oil in colder climate is even more of duh huh. Even France has a section of the Alps..

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[ShadowsPapa]

Say Huh ? I couldnt read that

Davey, oh Davey , mweh, buddy despite what " people" use in Europe every 3.6VVL on the planet uses 0W-20
As a matter of fact Much of Europe and Great Britain sits in higher latitudes and its colder there ling about the 38° so using a thicker oil in colder climate is even more of duh huh.

One thing to keep in mind is much of what's floating around out there is for the 1st gen 3.6 - the non-VVL engine. That's what you'll find in many forums and other hangouts.

Here's an interesting quote I found on BITOG forums -

The thinner viscosities allow for fast, seamless transitions in valve-train hydraulic actuators, like cam angle (VVT), valve lift (MultiAir) and cylinder deactivation/reactivation (MDS). It also reduces the internal viscous drag of motor oil on moving parts.
Engineering has tightened up bearing clearances to cope with the thinner viscosities.
Oil pressure and oil temperature are now PCM inputs to allow more precise control of engine management.

Funny, that's exactly what the PUG FCA training documents state.

 

[Stan H]

One thing to keep in mind is much of what's floating around out there is for the 1st gen 3.6 - the non-VVL engine. That's what you'll find in many forums and other hangouts.

Here's an interesting quote I found on BITOG forums -

The thinner viscosities allow for fast, seamless transitions in valve-train hydraulic actuators, like cam angle (VVT), valve lift (MultiAir) and cylinder deactivation/reactivation (MDS). It also reduces the internal viscous drag of motor oil on moving parts.
Engineering has tightened up bearing clearances to cope with the thinner viscosities.
Oil pressure and oil temperature are now PCM inputs to allow more precise control of engine management.

Funny, that's exactly what the PUG FCA training documents state.

That's a great post Dang wished I would have wrote that
Okay here's the deal . I will copy your post then you delete it I repost and get the glory
Okay just kidding . I am in one of my moods again

 

[JTGuy]

In order for the issue to be fixed we need to know;;;; Are the cams going flat because of what???
Poor materials.
Poor design.
Poor lubrication.
If poor lubricant ,,, why.
To much psi on the cam.
What is it going to take to correct the situation besides just replacing the parts with the same parts that will fail again for the same reasons.
I am sure Jeep has the answers but probably won't share them with us poor idiots that buy them.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That's a great post Dang wished I would have wrote that
Okay here's the deal . I will copy your post then you delete it I repost and get the glory
Okay just kidding . I am in one of my moods again

the prescription says two pills, not three........

 

[ShadowsPapa]

In order for the issue to be fixed we need to know;;;; Are the cams going flat because of what???
Poor materials.
Poor design.
Poor lubrication.
If poor lubricant ,,, why.
To much psi on the cam.
What is it going to take to correct the situation besides just replacing the parts with the same parts that will fail again for the same reasons.
I am sure Jeep has the answers but probably won't share them with us poor idiots that buy them.

This is where I wish I was 10 years younger. I'd go to work at a Jeep dealership shop - I'd even volunteer. I'd get my hands on anything that came in with a failed cam/follower and do deep dives like I do......... (I'd have to volunteer because I'd spend a lot more time on details than they'd want to pay for)

 

[JTGuy]

If the additive package to the top oils is what makes a difference then what are they? STP, MMO, BG, Lucas, Snake oil,,,LOL

 

[Stan H]

the prescription says two pills, not three........

I was watching a game show at a local pizzeria for dinner and this question came up

 

[ShadowsPapa]

If the additive package to the top oils is what makes a difference then what are they? STP, MMO, BG, Lucas, Snake oil,,,LOL

There are only 4 companies that supply the additive packages to the oil companies (I believe Valvoline does their own..........)

 

[JTGuy]

I would think that someone on one of the Jeep forums would have the inside scoop. Just like the 8 speed reverse cold clunk. No one knows anything about it. No one works on them.

 

[Hootbro]

(I believe Valvoline does their own..........)

That would be correct and is why it was a "happy accident" that Valvoline found a combination that developed into their "Restore and Protect" line of oils.

To my knowledge, Valvoline and Chevron are the only major retail motor oil makers that control the whole process of the oils they blend.

 

[Charles 236]

This is where I wish I was 10 years younger. I'd go to work at a Jeep dealership shop - I'd even volunteer. I'd get my hands on anything that came in with a failed cam/follower and do deep dives like I do......... (I'd have to volunteer because I'd spend a lot more time on details than they'd want to pay for)

I have done the deep dive on this, but I feel that the conclusions that have reached will violate internet "Holy Writ". I don't work on commission, haven't for years, so I can take the time to study what catches my interest in the shop. I have worked on and disected enough Pentastar Upgrade engines to be sure of what I have found, but the internet isn't about facts so much as feelings, and I am unwilling to try to debunk internet oil myths and PUG design flaw myths.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

That would be correct and is why it was a "happy accident" that Valvoline found a combination that developed into their "Restore and Protect" line of oils.

To my knowledge, Valvoline and Chevron are the only major retail motor oil makers that control the whole process of the oils they blend.

Thanks - I love info like that. Trivial, yeah, and for most it's a "who cares" - but I enjoy it.

 

[ShadowsPapa]

I have done the deep dive on this, but I feel that the conclusions that have reached will violate internet "Holy Writ". I don't work on commission, haven't for years, so I can take the time to study what catches my interest in the shop. I have worked on and disected enough Pentastar Upgrade engines to be sure of what I have found, but the internet isn't about facts so much as feelings, and I am unwilling to try to debunk internet oil myths and PUG design flaw myths.

oh boy, I sure here ya there.

 

[Stan H]

I have done the deep dive on this, but I feel that the conclusions that have reached will violate internet "Holy Writ". I don't work on commission, haven't for years, so I can take the time to study what catches my interest in the shop. I have worked on and disected enough Pentastar Upgrade engines to be sure of what I have found, but the internet isn't about facts so much as feelings, and I am unwilling to try to debunk internet oil myths and PUG design flaw myths.

I have a feeling the facts are being ignored by FCA.

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